unmarried stay @home mum separation advice please

[fridaysforfuturemum]

My partner asked for a separation in January.
We are joint owners of our home and have been living in a toxic atmosphere since then. We have two teenagers at High school. We're not married and I know I have no legal rights on anything but half the house. It was a joint agreement that I leave my job to be a stay@home mum. My partner now says it was my decision and legally he does not have to give me equal share of the savings etc..
I have no money as we just had a joint account. I really want to stay in my home with my kids. (they will stay with me one week, then him the next...)
The solicitors I spoke to were not interested in helping me because they said I was a cohabitee and had no rights. Appeal to his better nature was their top tip!
Can anyone suggest what kind of professional would be able to help me put a financial settlement proposal together that is fair and equal,takes into account what I have contributed to our family over the last 16 years and splits everything 50/50?
I'm saying to him it's about doing the right thing and what's morally right rather than what I'm legally entitled to. I asked him to treat me as if we have been married. We have been together 26 years :(
I've been a trusting fool like so many other women before me...

You gave all those years of service with only 'love' as your payment. He knew all along that you were the unpaid housekeeper

But “love” wasn’t her only payment.

She received full financial support from this man. His contribution has housed and fed her. All those groceries she had to stay home to unpack? He bought. All those things she had to stay home to mend? He bought. All the food she had to stay home and teach her kids how to cook? He bought. All the stuff she had to stay home to pack into charity bags? He bought.

Nothing wrong with making the choice to do that, when supported by a partner, but she no longer has a partner so needs to rethink how she’s going to fund her life.

“Personally I like asserting the right to have agency over my own life. I don't want a state that enforces obligations on me without my consent, simply because an arbitrary amount of time has passed.”

I completely get that and don’t necessarily disagree.

So much of this is down to confidence though - it’s much easier to ask for what you want, indeed insist on what you want, if you’re highly educated and/or a high earner and/or feel confident that you, as a woman, are equal to any man - perhaps because that was what was modelled in your household or because it very much wasn’t and you want something very different for yourself.

I’m going to ask my DDs how much this is taught in school because school is the ideal opportunity for this message to be instilled particularly if different messages are being conveyed at home.

Unfortunately there are some very narrow minded people on this thread with the advice "get married" if you want the same protection that marriage offers.
I fell pregnant whilst on the pill at age 25. I am extremely fertile as this happened again later on. My partner at the time said that we should move in together, that h3 would support me and that we would have a joint mortgage etc. He also said that we would marry after the child's 1st birthday.
That child is now 7 and we are still not married. He has stalled and stalled and stalled.
So the advice "get married" is not helpful at all when there are so many variables to so many different situations.
I tried to pursue at FT career after DC was born but ended up having a nervous breakdown. My doctor strongly advised that I reduce my hours in a cutthroat working environment in order to cope. I did so and have managed with my mental health since, but I have obviously made myself financially vulnerable.
DP has found all the reasons for us not to marry despite the promises he made in the very beginning.
I don't think any of this is my fault, as I had no idea that my body would over-ride the contraceptive pill in the way it does. I was utterly ashamed and mortified when I became pregnant and thought we would get married eventually.
Please don't throw around "get married" comments like confetti. It can be so hurtful.

And the Australian rules protect women who find themselves in @Kornflake’s position.

@Kornflake so your partner is an untrustworthy liar. He has lied about something that is very important to you. Why are you still with him?

I question why a person would live with someone for donkeys years, have children with them, and then want to dump them in the shit and walk away without setting them on their feet.

Maybe because he's supported her for over a decade while she's refused to work because she's busy doing housework and walking the dog, and he's decided he doesn't want to do that anymore?

OP is a grown woman who is free to make her own choices. She's chosen to opt out of the workplace - she doesn't have small children or children with special needs - she just didn't want to go back to work

It's not his job to support her forever just because she chose to make some very bad decisions.

@Kornflake

Unfortunately there are some very narrow minded people on this thread with the advice "get married" if you want the same protection that marriage offers. I fell pregnant whilst on the pill at age 25. I am extremely fertile as this happened again later on. My partner at the time said that we should move in together, that h3 would support me and that we would have a joint mortgage etc. He also said that we would marry after the child's 1st birthday. That child is now 7 and we are still not married. He has stalled and stalled and stalled. So the advice "get married" is not helpful at all when there are so many variables to so many different situations. I tried to pursue at FT career after DC was born but ended up having a nervous breakdown. My doctor strongly advised that I reduce my hours in a cutthroat working environment in order to cope. I did so and have managed with my mental health since, but I have obviously made myself financially vulnerable. DP has found all the reasons for us not to marry despite the promises he made in the very beginning. I don't think any of this is my fault, as I had no idea that my body would over-ride the contraceptive pill in the way it does. I was utterly ashamed and mortified when I became pregnant and thought we would get married eventually. Please don't throw around "get married" comments like confetti. It can be so hurtful.

But you made the choice to stay with him, completely dependent on him, once he had proven himself to be a liar and not someone you could depend on!

@Kornflake

Unfortunately there are some very narrow minded people on this thread with the advice "get married" if you want the same protection that marriage offers. I fell pregnant whilst on the pill at age 25. I am extremely fertile as this happened again later on. My partner at the time said that we should move in together, that h3 would support me and that we would have a joint mortgage etc. He also said that we would marry after the child's 1st birthday. That child is now 7 and we are still not married. He has stalled and stalled and stalled. So the advice "get married" is not helpful at all when there are so many variables to so many different situations. I tried to pursue at FT career after DC was born but ended up having a nervous breakdown. My doctor strongly advised that I reduce my hours in a cutthroat working environment in order to cope. I did so and have managed with my mental health since, but I have obviously made myself financially vulnerable. DP has found all the reasons for us not to marry despite the promises he made in the very beginning. I don't think any of this is my fault, as I had no idea that my body would over-ride the contraceptive pill in the way it does. I was utterly ashamed and mortified when I became pregnant and thought we would get married eventually. Please don't throw around "get married" comments like confetti. It can be so hurtful.

I'm sorry for your situation but that doesn't mean OP should be entitled to any help.

Too many people choose to stay in shitty relationships - that's not the governments fault and if they choose not to marry (or choose to stay with someone who refuses to marry them) then that's their own lookout and their own risk to take.

It's not the governments job to pick up the pieces.

@Kornflake

I understand your circumstances, but you really can't call people narrow minded because sadly they are right.

It's a terrible position to be in - do you have any plans to do something about it?

@Whitehorsewaves

The thought of both parties having to opt out through joint consent is very unrealistic. It would effectively create a power struggle in a relationship at the 5 year point.

Let's hypothetically say a woman lives with a man for 5 years. She has built up assets, works full time and has children. She doesn't want to get married and wants to protect the assets she has accumulated. She wants to sign a waiver to opt out at the 5 year point Her partner wants to ensure his rights are protected as he has no assets and the kids are not his. He doesn't work but wants to ensure he is protected in case they split up in the future. They are at stalemate. She decides she wants to end the relationship because they cannot agree. He refuses to move out and stays on till they pass the 5 year point, at which point he can now claim half her assets.

Your proposal would create a ripple effect across a variety of different situations.

This is an excellent point. But one way around that could be that she could officially separate from him (in much the same way as you can legally separate while living in the same home and married), thereby negating the possibility.

@category12 that sounds like a lot of extra hoops for a woman to have to jump through in order to protect herself, for a system supposedly for the protection of women.

You can’t seek the rights of marriage, if you never got married. It would be unfair to impose that on someone via common law.

To the PP who said “he won’t marry me” it’s ultimatum time.
He made you a promise and you allowed him to break it. He’s not marrying you so he’s free to do to you, what the Ops partner has.

Sorry OP but you have to face up to downsizing and working.

I thought you were all about the hoops

@category12

I thought you were all about the hoops

I prefer studs, personally.

[quote Kornflake]@VodselForDinner implying that I could have chosen to abort my now 7 year old is a disgrace. I'm deeply upset by your post and have asked MN to remove it.

I have been planning to leave DH for the last year for the reasons outlined above. I have nowhere to go at the moment so I've been looking to increase my income to become financially independent. Due to covid, no FT jobs have been advertised in my field since February so it's very tough to leave right now. I've sought legal advice etc so plans are being made to leave.[/quote]

I don’t think you’re really in a position to offer advice here. You’re in as bad a situation as the OP. At least this is all a shock to her and she didn’t see it coming, you’ve known for 7 years that your boyfriend hasn’t wanted to marry you and you’ve stayed with him.

category okay so applying that idea to the OPs situation, the man as the sole earner has the money to go to a solicitor and get a formal separation in place which then immediately takes away all those rights you are trying to advocate for the OP. So under this new law she is no better off.

Also, another hypothetical situation for you An elderly couple cohabit. One has adult children and the other doesn't. They have already been living together for 5 years plus. One dies and the other immediately puts in a claim on their estate as long term cohabitees. All the estate goes to the partner and none is passed onto the children as the deceased would have wished.

It doesn't work and wouldn't stand upto the myriad of domestic situations that make up society.

Opt out takes away civil liberties. Opt is an active choice.

@vodselfordinner

Why are you here?

Good luck OP.
Feel free to PM me for support.

@Whitehorsewaves

category okay so applying that idea to the OPs situation, the man as the sole earner has the money to go to a solicitor and get a formal separation in place which then immediately takes away all those rights you are trying to advocate for the OP. So under this new law she is no better off.

Also, another hypothetical situation for you An elderly couple cohabit. One has adult children and the other doesn't. They have already been living together for 5 years plus. One dies and the other immediately puts in a claim on their estate as long term cohabitees. All the estate goes to the partner and none is passed onto the children as the deceased would have wished.

It doesn't work and wouldn't stand upto the myriad of domestic situations that make up society.

Opt out takes away civil liberties. Opt is an active choice.

Yep, you've got me

I just think there's something going wrong here, and perhaps if opting out is such a daft idea, we need to be shaking things up considerably and empowering women and really changing the social norms of the man proposing and the woman waiting etc. Which we are signally failing to do. It's a case of basically saying to women - ahh, you should have been smarter than that, believe a man, would ya?

[quote Kornflake]@vodselfordinner

Why are you here?[/quote]
Because it’s a public website that anyone can access.

I’m allowed post what I want and if you don’t like it, that’s fine. You can post what you want and if I think you’re wrong, that’s fine too.

It's a case of basically saying to women - ahh, you should have been smarter than that, believe a man, would ya?

And what's wrong with that? Women are just as capable as men of making decisions about their love lives and future. Suggesting otherwise is really infantilising and basically suggests that women need to have their hand held as they can't be trusted otherwise.

category good debate though!

Education could be achieved through the media. Start early with one of the bite size documentaries on the kids BBC channels. Make documentaries about it on BBC or Channel 4. Keep it as an issue in the public eye. Add a leaflet to a maternity pack that talks about returning to work after having a baby and signposts people to a government website with more information on rights. This gives people information to make informed choices. If after all that someone says they didn't know then they really are putting their head in the sand.