Alcoholic husband - where do I go from here?

[Ruthietuthie]

First time posting about this. I don't know what I am asking, really. Perhaps if anyone has been in the same situation and what they decided? What helped?

My husband's drinking had been ramping up for years. I knew he drank too much in the evening (every night since our son was born three years ago) and hated that he was either monosyllabic and stupid or mean every single night.
In August, he collapsed while out walking the dog and ended up in hospital. He told me then that he had been drinking heavily during the day too, since lock-down (2 or 3 litre bottles of vodka each day). This explained why he had been acting so strange (distant, slurring his words, odd) during the day.
Since then, he has gone weeks without drinking. He will then drink one night, and then the next day I will come home to find he is drunk again. This past weekend, he drunk on Saturday night (he had been talking about nothing else but his one drinking night all week). I took our son to the park on Sunday morning, came home at 11 am to find him slurring and staggering around.
I just can't take it anymore. The lying is the worst (I asked him so many times, when I found him slurring his words during the day, "Did you drink?" He denied it each time, saying that I was crazy and making trouble. The following day he will admit it). But I love him. I just don't know how to move forward with this.
Is there any hope? He won't admit he has a problem, was furious that the doctor at the hospital described him as having alcohol dependence, and says he will just cut down.
I can't go on living like this. But I just don't know what to do from here?
Has anyone been here? What did you decide?

Well done for getting yourself to Al anon - it's the best place for you.

Your H should really be going to AA, but if he's not interested it's probably time to start considering your options. Al anon people will have loads of advice/experience with that.

I think the crying through the meeting and the tiredness are so normal! It’s an incredibly stressful situation and the process of letting go of what you thought life was going to be like is really tough. You’re doing brilliantly.

The most important thing is talking about it all, especially to people who understand, whether that’s through friends, Alanon, counselling or whatever. If it’s any consolation, I did the talking through via counselling and cried every single session, even though I was very together the rest of the time,

I can only tell you the truth. It's not cheerful.

1. You're powerless.
2. He won't stop for ages at this rate, if ever. Only he can stop drinking, and then only when he wants to.
3. Get out while you can; it only gets worse.

This is also true, and a lot more cheerful.

1. Once he's out, you'll slowly start to feel better.
2. In six months, you'll feel normal and wonder how on earth you put up with it for so long.
3. It feels really good putting DC needs before the needs of the local off-licence.
4. Your DC will love and respect you as a good mother, not the woman who stayed with the drunk at their expense.

Oh @ruthietuthie, I really do feel for you - and everybody else who knows how utterly destructive alcoholism, addiction and the lying that goes with it is.

I know that only you will know when you're ready to be 'done' and take the next step, but I promise you, life not living with an addict will immediately feel so much easier, the most enormous and awful weight lifted. Again, happy to chat via PM x

Holy fuck. I got absolutely slammed earlier on today for saying a few glasses of wine most days doesn't mean he's an alcoholic. So my bar for this is high. And he is a raging alcoholic.

@AttilaTheMeerkat had a lot of expertise.. maybe she's around.

But this is serious. He will drink himself to death by the sounds of it and tbh the times I d seen this behaviour it very much couldn't be stopped. I couldn't stay with someone like this.

@MarriedtoDaveGrohl, yes, I was shocked when I found out quite how much he was drinking. When he ended up in hospital (he collapsed on the street, this is back in August), they said that he already had quite severe liver damage. He is also having black outs and holes in his memory, all caused by the drinking. I am aware how serious this is.

@BritInAus, thank you so much for your kind kind comments. It really helps to know that I am not alone. And thank you for the offer to PM. I am so sorry you had to go through this too.

Thank you too to everyone who offered kind support, even if I haven't mentioned you by name. I am painfully aware how serious this is, and more than anything determined that this will not impact our child (I grew up in a house-hold where I walked on egg shells around my father's anger and grumpiness, and would lie in bed at night in fear, waiting for him to come home from the pub, and wondering whether this would be the night that he physically attacked me again. He would come in shouting, then come to our bedrooms and kick us through our covers. My mum was aware of this, aware of all the times he attacked us, but denied it. She denied it to the extent that, when my Dad threw a hot iron at my face, leaving an iron-shaped burn mark, she said that she could not see it. I know the damage alcoholism in the family does and the long-term damage growing up like that did to my self-esteem and capacity for happiness. I would NEVER inflict even 1% of what I went through on my son).
I don't know what the plan is yet, but I know this can't go on, and that his alcoholism is not in my control.

Thank you again.

@Shiverywinterbottom, I am so sorry your childhood was like that too. It leaves such an impact.

My dad is an alcoholic, it won't get better, unless he get help on his own. But it will affect his children. My sister told me the reason I refuse have a wedding in front my family because I feel vulnerable in showing my strong emotions because of our alcoholic dad. I don't know if it is true or I am just extremely low self confidence because I am deaf but she insisted it is from our dad. But in case it is true, it could affect your kids as well.

he may get better after you leave but if you do, I don't recommend going back to him either. you are part of his drinking memory and you will always be his reminder.

@BillyMurphy, I am so sorry that you had to go through this too. I am glad you came out the other side. Thank you for your advice.

@Clementine183, what you wrote really stood out to me. I think I was thinking, "If he will JUST admit he has a problem..." so it makes me think more carefully when I read that, for your husband, admitting he had a problem and trying to stop wasn't enough. This is so so tough, isn't it? I am sorry we have to go through it.

Thank you too for everyone who recommended Al-Anon.

@Blueberries0112, thank you for writing. I am so sorry that your dad's alcoholism had such an impact.
(I have to say, at my wedding, I spent the whole day scared. Scared because I could see my Dad getting drunker and drunker, beginning to say inappropriate things [fortunately my husband's family speak a different language, so people couldn't understand to be offended] and watching my husband get drunker and drunker too, worried about how it would end. Then I didn't know my husband was an alcoholic. But already alcohol was spoiling what should have been beautiful).

@Louiselhrau, I see what you are saying. And I love him, still find him funny and interesting and kind, and he loves our little boy. And when I said, "in sickness and in health" I really did mean it. But I think of the impact of growing up with an alcoholic dad, and a mum who denied my father's violence and drunkenness, and it ruined me. Wrecked my self-esteem and my confidence. I am just so aware that I cannot "love him better," that no matter how much I love him, I can't stop him drinking himself into a ditch or drinking himself to death.
I also see how much of me this is eating up. I have a great job, lots of satisfying work to do (I am a writer and an academic, so my work is really compelling) but I have become someone whose only thought is "Did you drink?" "Are you lying to me?" It is destroying me.
I take being married very seriously. We've been together for 14 years, married for eight now. But I can't see a path forward with this that doesn't drag us all down. (Although I am also terrified to leave, scared of destroying our family, but more scared of damaging my son).

@Louiselhrau - I think your comment is spectacularly unhelpful. So people should stay married at any cost? The OP's child should grow up damaged by their alcoholic other parent?

Would you be saying the same if the OP was complaining her husband was a heroin or meth addict? Just because alcohol can be purchased legally doesn't make the effects any less awful.

I think parents show commitment (to their children) by removing them from a potentially unsafe situation. Would you rather the OP stayed, and her child is potentially killed when its father is drunk driving? In the name of 'commitment' to a marriage?

Give me strength. I've never imagined I'd say this to someone on an online forum before, but you clearly don't get it. Please do fuck off.

And to @ruthietuthie - I can see we have cross posted. You sound very sensible, and you know what you need to do. Separating is awful - but nowhere near as awful as what will happen if you stay. The damage to your son if you separate is miniscule compared to the very real damage that will occur if you stay. Sending so much strength. It is hard and awful and exhausting - I know the feeling before leaving in this situation only too well. But you can do it, and it WILL be better. You and your child deserve peace and to live safely - I mean that from a physical and emotional point of view. x

@Louiselhrau, I should have added, what do you suggest I do? This is 40 plus units a day, on days he drinks. This is a hospitalization (the first time he collapsed on the street, the second time, which I didn't write about in my first post, I found him collapsed in the garden, his heart stopped, not breathing. If I had not found him, and our neighbor had not done CPR, he would have died). It is so so serious. Yet he says he does not have a drinking problem, does not need to stop drinking, and is not willing to. He is also not willing to go to AAA, see a counsellor, see a psychiatrist (it was suggested by the hospital that a psychiatrist could prescribe something to help his anxiety and struggles with sleeping, if he was not open to any kind of talking therapy).
I have tried, I really really have. To walk away would be the hardest thing.

@Ruthietuthie I don't think you need to convince the majority of how serious the problem is. I am sure you'd 'stick by' a multitude of other problems, but this one is too damaging to the rest of the family to stay.

If he doesn't even admit he has a problem, and is at the stage of serious liver damage, I really think it's extremely unlikely that there's a happy ending where he recovers and you all live happily ever after as a family. But you and your DC still can. x

@Louiselhrau

Very suprised so many people see a marriage as such a non commitment. It's not. Whatever problems people face it should be tackled together, that's what families do that's how parents show children what commitment is.

I agree that marriage is a commitment to work at and stick to but it's perfectly clear that the OP has worked at it and he doesn't even admit theres a problem. She can't save him. At some point it's time to leave and protect yourself and the children.

Your advice sounds terrible in this situation.

@Louiselhrau it strikes me that you have no lived experience of living with an addict. You would not spout this nonsense if you had.

And it takes two to 'work at' a marriage. OP is doing everything she can, her husband is just pouring petrol on the flames. Where in your rule book does it say it's OK for one partner to do all the hard work and for the other to carry on being utterly destructive?

Very suprised so many people see a marriage as such a non commitment. It's not. Whatever problems people face it should be tackled together, that's what families do that's how parents show children what commitment is.

OP HAS been committed! But it’s a partnership, BOTH people have to make an effort. What is OPs husband doing to help himself and alleviate the situation? Absolutely nothing.
As for showing children what commitment is? Absolutely stupid comment. Marriage shouldn’t be some kind of punishment where one persons emotional and mental health gets completely destroyed while putting up with the other persons shit. What would that teach a child? Watching daddy collapse and almost die repeatedly? Seeing himself comatose every day, not able to do any kind of parenting?

OP I wish you lots of strength as you move forward. It’s all so very painful, wishing things could be different. But you are doing the right thing.

Ruthie

All credit to you for attending Al-anon meetings; keep going to these!.

As I wrote earlier you can only help your own self and your child by not further raising him within such a toxic environment. Sadly no-one thought it necessary to protect you from all this as a child but you do not have to repeat those mistakes.

He may still love you both but sadly he loves alcohol more. Your son and you are not top of his priority list; that goes to drink and that is what his primary relationship is with. You people are not his number 1 priority.

The 3cs re alcoholism are again prescient here:-
You did not cause it
You cannot control it
You cannot cure it

You will NOT destroy your family by leaving this man. Your H's alcoholism has already harmed this family unit beyond repair and although leaving can be scary and or otherwise daunting you need to do what your mother did not i.e. leave her alcoholic husband. Find the courage to do this. Your son (and for that matter that little girl now you as an adult) deserves a better legacy than the one left to you and you have a choice re this man, your son does not. Your own recovery from your H's alcoholism will only properly further get going too when you have completely separated from your H.

It will be far worse for your son to grow up seeing an alcoholic parent; you yourself did and it has affected you markedly to this very day.
I would read about codependency in relationships and see how much of this relates to your own behaviours. I would also urge you to read this article hard as it is to read because you've been as much caught up in this merry go around named denial too:-

www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/68440-alcoholism-tragic-three-act-play-there-least-4-characters-1-a.html

@Louiselhrau, Of course marriage is important and no one one their right mind makes marriage vows without meaning them.
BUT!!!!!! An alcoholic is incapable of fulfilling marriage vows. An alcoholic’s behaviour, through gaslighting and lying becomes psychologically abusive tI the detriment of their spouse’s mental health. An alcoholic’s verbal tirades are abusive. An alcoholic’s desire to hit someone when drunk- maybe a spouse or their child -is violent, abusive and illegal. They didn’t want to become alcoholic and it maybe a disease, but they sure as hell have the free will and responsibility to TRY to get help for it. Most don’t.

what of the child in the marriage? They are 2-4x more likely to become alcoholics in later life. They are far more likely to continue this pattern of life down the generations and marry an alcoholic themselves. They are more likely to suffer mental illness...unless, the non-alcoholic spouse can remove them and protect them, which helps to mitigate these hideous effects.

Unfortunately, because of the stigma created by misguided views like yours, leaving becomes an unnecessary moral dilemma when it absolutely shouldn’t be.

I really hope you will think twice before saying something like that again.

@Ruthituthie, sorry for the rant above!
I’m not sure if anyone has already suggested but there is also Nacoa for you, who help adult children of alcoholics. Worth a google.

Apologies if this had already been said and you've decided against it. Alcoholics generally don't change and they destroy those around them. Especially their children. It's so destructive to children possibly one of the worst. I've met children of alcoholics and they usually have some pretty deep seated issues.

If he's not regularly attending AA, and he's drinking in any capacity at all you need to leave. It's really that simple.

Giving him chance after chance won't help. In fact I believe it's part of enabling his illness. He should be taking medication to stop drinking and going to AA and not drinking.

It's not regally something a non professional can cope with.