Friend-zoned. Will he ever see me as anything more?

[TheOriginalMagratGarlik1]

My friend and I are in our late 40s. He's long term single, I'm recently separated. We've been friends for a couple of years or so through a mutual hobby.

Since mid June we've been hanging out for full days (12+ hours at a time) on a one to one basis for anywhere between 1-3 days per week. If we meet with others in our hobby club we are often the last to leave and can spend an extra hour or two chatting after everyone else has left. We've been away for weekends together doing our hobby and travelled to those places together (which has involved journeys of 10+ hours). Next week we will travel together for over 2 hours to do our hobby together (without other members of our club coming along).

In short, outside of my family he is the person I spend the most time with and yes, I've fallen for him pretty hard. In an awkward conversation a week ago I admitted my feelings for him. He looked surprised and said he hadn't thought about it.

Now, I'm well aware I simply may not be his type etc etc, but clearly I've been put in the friend-zone (and our hobby is not the type of activity where you typically look your best/sexiest). Is there realistically any chance with this one? I know he's on online dating sites (as he's entitled to do as a long term single bloke), but any ideas on how to get him to see me as a female and not just a good mate he has a laugh with? I don't need to spend time alone with him. We already do a lot of that. In addition, not sure how relevant it is, but he is ASD and not great at picking up social cues.

@SomeoneTellBorisHeHasDandruff conversations don't tend to be deep and meaningful or feelings based. Again they tend to be very literal, so if I've said I like something then he might go into masses of detail on that one thing, or when he's done something he might tell about it in lots of detail. In terms of relationship history, I've known him for a couple of years and there's been noone (or noone significant enough to introduce to others/add on social media or the likes) within that time. Prior to that I'm not sure. One friend has commented previously that X is not good with the ladies and another suggested similar, but who knows?

I can see it makes it difficult because of the way he communicates so literally. I think you need to be brave and direct so that you know for sure!

My ex was rather like that. Met him through a hobby too, lots of flirty behaviour from him but never asked me out. Everyone thought he was shy. Eventually, years later, we eventually got together and I thought it was going great. For 3 months. Then he dumped me, telling me he was no good at relationships and he preferred just meeting women on Tinder for casual flings. Turns out he had been using Tinder for this all the time that me and all our mutual friends had thought he was shy and making excuses for him. He just doesn't want a proper relationship, but was quite happy to enjoy the flirting with me.

I understood your motivation for fishing with him about the trip with others. Just thought it was a bad plan! As others say, because of his poor communication (and your determination to have a romantic relationship with him) you’ve been ‘second guessing‘ and indirect, and basing YOUR plans and friendships with others at the club on his (unclear) preferences and the hope he’ll be interested.

Have you now invited others, or dropped the plans/cancelled? If not, why not?

Similarly, why are you planning to carry on spending time with him? You want a romantic relationship with him. Anything other than attending your hobby at the ordinary location is just behaviour that’s detrimental to you.

Can you have few drinks and then say I’d like you to kiss me now? Be very direct!

. He often doesn't get social cues and you can see when he's processing things. I've found when he knows what he is expected to do, he does it, but he doesn't always consider actions as rude or you have to carefully word questions to ensure they don't get misinterpreted. He doesn't cope with being given a lot of information in one go either, you have to break it up into small chunks.

Please, please don't try to have a romantic relationship with him! What you have described above will make your life very hard indeed! Please don't do it and on top of that please delve into the reasons why you think that is the kind of relationship you deserve. It will be like a parent/child relationship. He cannot possibly meet your emotional needs.

Stop asking us, and yourself, what he wants. Ask yourself what you want and need. This is not the right man for you.

Take it from me. I have been there and it is very distressing long term.

He's a climber isn't he. Sounds like so many of the climbers I know.

@Dozer whether we are going on a trip with just the two of us, or whether we are going to include others in our plans is something we've each asked the other on occasions where we are making arrangements for trips. We tend to be the main instigators for trips and sometimes we do decide to go to places with just the two of us (there are other occasions when arrangements will be made with others on a one to one basis as well).

@Karwomannghia in the current climate even a trip to the pub will usually involve taking the car rather than using public transport, so opportunities to have more than a single alcoholic drink together tend to be limited. I agree though these things are often easier when lubricated by alcohol (in fact looking back I think pretty much all my relationships where friendship has turned sexual - which is every one of my LTRs - have started with a beer too many at the pub and crossing the line you wouldn't cross with a friend when sober).

Do you really want a relationship that needs alcohol to even begin?

Imagine the responses to a man plotting to get an autistic woman to drink alcohol in order to try and get sexual with her. This is getting all bit vile now.

@Marisishidinginmyattic the response was intended tongue in cheek and was not intended to imply a desire to get him drunk, but rather that these things always seem easier after you've had a little "dutch courage" yourself. I would never suggest getting someone else deliberately drunk, having had someone previously spiked my drinks in order to take advantage in the past 😮

Maybe don’t visit a city centre bar at a weekend, Maris, I don’t think you would approve. (Post Covid obvs).

Do you really want a relationship with a man with ASD? My x on spectrum im sure and he never understood why hurts were difficult. He never "wondered" about anything so lots of discussions were shut down. Anything to do with psychology or family dunamics was just beyond him. Move on. Let it go. That was all he had. I dont know why anybody in their forties would want that. I was in my 20s and had no sense.

@Karwomannghia

Maybe don’t visit a city centre bar at a weekend, Maris, I don’t think you would approve. (Post Covid obvs).

Why? Is this where we all go to take advantage of autistic people who don’t want to be in a relationship with us and get them lubricated and/or pressure them with our dutch courage?

Seriously I’m not going to engage with your ridiculous twisted way of looking at this scenario.

@fitzbilly

He's a climber isn't he. Sounds like so many of the climbers I know.

You just have to watch that film about the free climber. His poor girlfriend!!

@Marisishidinginmyattic

Do you really want a relationship that needs alcohol to even begin?

Imagine the responses to a man plotting to get an autistic woman to drink alcohol in order to try and get sexual with her. This is getting all bit vile now.

I took the OP to mean that she might be the one who needs to be a bit tipsy to tell him how she feels. Do you always assume the worst in people?

There is no ‘we’, really.

Detrimental to you to do any more 1:1 sessions or trips with him, spend 12 hours plus with him, stay ages at the activity location talking to him after others have left etc.

Fair enough if you don’t want to engage but this is not a ridiculous or twisted way of looking at this scenario. The man is autistic and not expressing any signs of being interested in OP romantically. People are advising involving alcohol to either make have him drink it to make him more open to the idea of a relationship or for OP to drink to give OP the courage to push the issue further (specifically, as she says, crossing a line she wouldn’t when sober). Neither of these are kind situations to put a person in anyway, let alone an autistic person who may struggle to handle the situation or struggle to remove himself from the situation once drunken OP comes onto him. I don’t know why anyone would want to put someone they consider a friend in that situation.

OP I have a very lovely colleague with ASD - he would literally stay talking to me after work for 4 hours if you let him- he has no idea when a conversation is finished or how to finish it - these long conversations may not be a sign of romantic interest

Ok, this thread is starting to look like it is going to turn nasty to what was an innocent question.

Thanks to all those lovely posters who have given some excellent advice, thinking points and support. I'm going to bow out now but thanks again.

good luck OP!

hope it goes well whatever you decide

I'm not sure if you'll come back op but he sounds like a male friend of mine who has ASD. I think you need to think carefully about whether you really want to take on the extra emotional toil that is likely to come with dating him and also what might happen to your friendship if it doesn't work out. My friend with ASD doesn't date very often for good reason. He has difficulty reading social cues, he becomes very fixated with things, making him appear self-obsessed, and can often come across as rude or abrupt. He also will frequently say that he doesnt understand someone he's dating without actually having a good honest conversation with her. As a friend he's fine, although a bit frustrating at times, but I would never recommend him as a potential boyfriend.

conversations don't tend to be deep and meaningful or feelings based. Again they tend to be very literal

And again, if you formed a relationship with this man, this would be your future. For as long as you could stand it. Would you really want a relationship where you can't talk about your feelings, or anything apart from fact based 'what I did today'?

[quote TheOriginalMagratGarlik1]@UserABCDE12345 thank you for that. It's all very familiar with how he acts/reacts. As I said, I thought I'd been blindly obvious before I told him, but apparently not. Taking it very literally makes sense too as he does do that a lot. He often doesn't get social cues and you can see when he's processing things. I've found when he knows what he is expected to do, he does it, but he doesn't always consider actions as rude or you have to carefully word questions to ensure they don't get misinterpreted. He doesn't cope with being given a lot of information in one go either, you have to break it up into small chunks.

Well, I guess we'll see what happens or not.[/quote]
I thought I'd been blindingly obvious too (I was, others noticed it), DP not so much 😆. We laugh about it now.

Yeah, fuck dating all these people on the spectrum. Let them be alone forever because they are such hard work.