Friend-zoned. Will he ever see me as anything more?

[TheOriginalMagratGarlik1]

My friend and I are in our late 40s. He's long term single, I'm recently separated. We've been friends for a couple of years or so through a mutual hobby.

Since mid June we've been hanging out for full days (12+ hours at a time) on a one to one basis for anywhere between 1-3 days per week. If we meet with others in our hobby club we are often the last to leave and can spend an extra hour or two chatting after everyone else has left. We've been away for weekends together doing our hobby and travelled to those places together (which has involved journeys of 10+ hours). Next week we will travel together for over 2 hours to do our hobby together (without other members of our club coming along).

In short, outside of my family he is the person I spend the most time with and yes, I've fallen for him pretty hard. In an awkward conversation a week ago I admitted my feelings for him. He looked surprised and said he hadn't thought about it.

Now, I'm well aware I simply may not be his type etc etc, but clearly I've been put in the friend-zone (and our hobby is not the type of activity where you typically look your best/sexiest). Is there realistically any chance with this one? I know he's on online dating sites (as he's entitled to do as a long term single bloke), but any ideas on how to get him to see me as a female and not just a good mate he has a laugh with? I don't need to spend time alone with him. We already do a lot of that. In addition, not sure how relevant it is, but he is ASD and not great at picking up social cues.

He hasn't upped the messaging, but we did end up spending even longer than usual together last week. I asked him to call me a few days ago, which he did immediately on getting the message and after our hobby on one day we spent an extra 3 hours in the pub chatting and the following day we spent an extra hour chatting before going home. Then back to nothing. Now he has been working nights for the past few nights, but still.

Anyway, I guess I'll see him again in a couple of days so will see how things stand then.

It's strange. I have another very good male friend (in fact he was my best friend for years) in fact I've known him for 30 years now. I always thought of him as being asexual, there was never even a hint of anything between us even though we spent all our time together, slept in the same room (and even in the same bed) on many occasions. Anyway, I met my ex and it was only at that point I discovered he'd fancied me all along. We had a few rocky years friendship-wise and then he met his lovely wife. I literally had had no idea.

One thing I've learnt with men is if they like you they will do something about it.

I agree with this. You told him you're interested and he didn't act on it. I've often become very close with guys and spent lots of time with them, but it's not because I'm attracted to them it is because they become a familiar who I feel comfortable around. Perhaps the lack of attraction even emphasises my ability to be close with them as I know I can just relax and not think about anything

I mean clearly OP knows that men won’t always do something about it from her last post because, just like women, they come with a plethora of personalities, experiences and confidence levels.

hmmm yeah I see what you mean OP

What about when you next see him would you be able to have a more frank talk with him and be very direct- something like' What did you think of what I said- do you think there's anything between us or are we just friends?'
Then at least you would know his feelings on it more clearly - what do you think?

He may just be processing what you’ve said OP . Give it time .

Long term though you are going to have to decide if you can handle just being friends if nothing changes

I would think of skipping the hobby next week.
Just say you have to catch up with somebody see yall next time.

I dont know if this is completely hopeless but give yourself a break from this man

Unfortunately @MuserOwl I can't do that as we've already put various arrangements in place for this week and next.

Another thing, for our trip away in a few days I texted him and asked should I make others aware we are going to see if anyone wants to join us. There was no response. Then someone put on a group chat, "is anyone going to x in the near future. I'd like to go" and again he didn't respond to them. We are definitely going on the trip (or at least as definite as you can be in the current situation), but his lack of response to asking whether others should join could either be taken as let's keep it quiet, or as can't be bothered to reply depending on your view. I'm not sure how to read it. Obviously I'll ask next time we meet.

There was no response

I think people who like each other don't normally leave someone hanging with no response- he is treating you like he treats the others- if he liked you there would be something more than with the others maybe?

Invite others on your upcoming trip! You don’t need permission!

You told him you were interested: he’s not acted on it. Would cut right back on your time with him and stop trips away with just the two of you as it’s not healthy for you to spend so much time with someone you want to date but who isn’t reciprocating.

You have done all the hard work by making the first move, so even if he was shy, ASD etc all he has to do is reciprocate. he hasn't even done that
I'm afraid I don't believe he has any interest in you that way although I would love to be proved wrong as you sound lovely.
When we like someone we search for any little clue or gesture to show that the feeling is mutual, in life things are rarely that complicated. As others have said, if he liked you , you would know about it. I would gently back off until you have gotten him out of your system and can go forward just as friends

@Dozer I wasn't looking for permission to ask others, I was in a round about way asking if he wanted the trip to be just us or with a group. The fact that I got no response suggested to me that he was not especially looking for others to join. (I've learned over time that messages with an answer of no from him usually don't get a response. Messages with an answer of yes usually get an immediate response).

I'm not going to go down the, "he's shy" or "he's ASD" route to explain any of this. I guess my original question was just whether, once you're thought of as a friend there's ever any coming back from that. (And no, he doesn't treat me the same as everyone else in that we spend far more time together than anyone else within our group. Something that others have started to notice and comment on).

However, yes I'll accept friendship if that's what's on offer, but I'm not going to pretend it won't hurt.

I've learned over time that messages with an answer of no from him usually don't get a response. Messages with an answer of yes usually get an immediate response)

OP, I think you deserve more- imagine this as your partner- you already make allowances and have to 'learn his ways' despite this being against what is normal polite behaviour (messaging back)
I don't think this is worth it- painful as you like him but it shouldn't be this hard probably

@crochetmonkey74

I've learned over time that messages with an answer of no from him usually don't get a response. Messages with an answer of yes usually get an immediate response)

OP, I think you deserve more- imagine this as your partner- you already make allowances and have to 'learn his ways' despite this being against what is normal polite behaviour (messaging back)
I don't think this is worth it- painful as you like him but it shouldn't be this hard probably

This.

You didn't respond to my reasons for thinking he's not good boyfriend material, but this is an example of it: you having to compensate and twist yourself round to manage your expectations of him. And this is likely while he's still masking somewhat, (which cannot be maintained in full time relationships). You might think that the pay-off would be worth the strain but I dunno, read some of the threads about being partnered with ASD guys.

Just a man's perspective here (and I only represent me, of course, not all men).

I find that I struggle to read romantic situations. I can misread in either direction. Just the other day I explained a series of interactions I'd had with a lady, to a female friend of mine, and she was literally slapping her forehead with "of course she wants you, you doughnut". I kind of thought she did, but I really needed it spelling out to me in black and white.

I do really struggle to move women I like into the friendzone, and I struggle to move friends into the GFzone. Either direction is hard! I have a female friend now who I really like as a friend. She has told me she wants more and if I'm honest I knew she did. I feel bad because there is NOTHING I can do to change how I feel about her. It's quite a shame because we seem pretty well matched apart from lack of physical attraction on my part.

If you think you were pretty clear about your feelings to him, and he's OLD, then it seems highly likely he's not interested. It might be worth one final enquiry to see how he feels about it now he'd had time to think it over.

Also, one of the big things that causes internal turmoil in these cases is ambiguity. You're still unclear about how he feels, you're still looking for signs, comments, etc. You've gone this far, you might as well go the whole hog. Sure it may well be upsetting, but knowing is going to save you from stress in the long term.

You are already having to 'second guess' him. In as much as you have to 'read between the lines' all the time, even for questions that should have a straightforward answer!

Imagine having to do that all the time with a partner.

He's not boyfriend material. There will be a very good reason why he's been single for a long time - that reason may be that he prefers being single.

You mentioned making arrangements to meet up during the week and for trips.

Who is initiating the meetings and trips?

As others upthread have said, I would ask him if, now that he’s had time to think about what you said, his feelings for you are any clearer to him. It may be that his ASD meant that when you told him your feelings, he responded in kind, not reading the fact that you were also hoping to find out if those feelings might develop in any way iyswim... so, maybe just ask him. That way you’ll finally know one way or another, and can then decide what you need to do next. I really hope it goes well for you OP.

definitely get a definitive answer now- before you get in too deep or pass up on real life options as you are pining after him or waiting on any little sign

@category12 sorry, I didn't intend to ignore your message and it made a lot of sense. I agreed with your synopsis but simply forgot to respond.

@RantyAnty initiation of trips etc is split pretty much 50/50. We usually make arrangements when we're in the pub after a previous trip.

Thanks for the perspective @ZaphodDent when I told him I found him attractive he did seem genuinely surprised when I thought it was blindly obvious that I felt this way so sometimes things are not always as clear as we think they are. I do know from others (who are unaware of the situation) that there appears to be something of "mentionitis" in the last couple if weeks or so on his part. However, I'm trying not to read too much into it. If he likes me that way, great. If not I'll settle for being mates. We will see. When it comes to communication he's not your typical bloke and that does make it difficult, or maybe that's part of the attraction. I do like the odd-balls in life.

Maybe he is using the OLD just for hookups? The lack of info does not suggest he is looking for a relationship.

Beware him trying it on when you next go away together!

I guess my original question was just whether, once you're thought of as a friend there's ever any coming back from that.

I would suggest that a relationship is possible from that situation but it’s unbalanced and starts off with one person at a disadvantage. Would you feel comfortable if he came back to you and said he hadn’t thought about you that way before but fancied testing it out? In that scenario, I wouldn’t. I’d feel like he thought he might as well give it a go since I’m right there and available rather than he actually wanted me as a person. But other people might see it as some sort of challenge to win him over. Funny old world.

My DP is on the spectrum. He had no idea I liked him despite it being blindingly obvious. I chased him and got him. Nothing wrong with that. I hate it when women always think a man should do the chasing/asking.

However, my DP can 'stare' a bit, he's processing. He'll be 'looking' but he's not really so I wouldn't read anything into these looks. Given the immediate response that he has never thought about it, he could be processing and said that automatically.

Don't forget people on the spectrum tend to be literal. You've told him you find him attractive, not that you'd like to date him. He is likely to hear 'she finds me attractive' and nothing more rather than thinking 'oh she wants a date.'

I ended up telling my now DP over messaging that I liked him and wanted him. He still went on to ask if I wanted to act on it, he would never have assumed.

I'd try bringing the conversation around to relationships/dating and see if you can gauge a better response/idea.

You may have to ask outright if he would like to go out sometime - non hobby related.

I was thinking the same as UserABCDE12345, if you told him you find him attractive maybe he saw that as an observation rather than that you fancy him and would like to date him if he feels the same way.

He could be OLD and sending a few messages but it doesn’t necessarily mean he is taking it further. It could be lack of confidence and struggling to read the signs generally.

I think as others have suggested maybe it’s worth asking him directly how he feels about you and say you would be interested in a romantic relationship with him.

What are your conversations like, are they deep and meaningful talking about both of your thoughts and feelings? Or more so hobby related and general?
Do you know much about his relationship history?

I think you need to let him know how you feel and find out whether he feels the same or if he just enjoys the friendship. If it’s just friendship for him protect yourself from getting hurt and take a step back. Stick to the group activities rather than spending so much time just you two.
Good luck.

@UserABCDE12345 thank you for that. It's all very familiar with how he acts/reacts. As I said, I thought I'd been blindly obvious before I told him, but apparently not. Taking it very literally makes sense too as he does do that a lot. He often doesn't get social cues and you can see when he's processing things. I've found when he knows what he is expected to do, he does it, but he doesn't always consider actions as rude or you have to carefully word questions to ensure they don't get misinterpreted. He doesn't cope with being given a lot of information in one go either, you have to break it up into small chunks.

Well, I guess we'll see what happens or not.