Divorce, Brexit, relocation, am I selfish for not going?

[NotSelenaGomez]

I have 2dc, one at primary, one secondary. Been with dh 15 years, and honestly that last 1.5 - 2 years have been pretty dead in terms of our relationship with each other. I have filed for divorce and he has failed to respond to the papers he was served with. He accepts its over but does still tell me to just try a bit harder and that things could work out, I know they won’t, and have no desire to try anything. I’m slowly ploughing through the proceedings regardless of him. We get on well most of the time, and co-parent effectively. He is an EU national, and I’m a Brit – I love my country. He is pestering me to move to his country, Germany, and become resident before some date in December, as after that it won’t be so easy for me to live there. DC have dual nationality so they will be fine. I have told him I can’t go, I would be very unhappy there, we have lived there before, I hated it, I have a career but couldn’t work there as my language was not up to the very high standard the Germans wanted. I’d be leaving family, friends, social networks, a job and home that I love, my kids love their schools. Not to mention – why would I move away with someone I’m divorcing, WTH! He says I am selfish for putting my own happiness first, and above that of the children. That it would be better for the dc to live with both parents, in a safer society, with better schooling, better prospects, better healthcare etc. It annoys me when he says things like dc will fail in life because of my selfishness at making them like in a crap country where kids are in gangs and there is so much crime amongst youth. He also thinks we can continue living in a loveless marriage and should do so as a sacrifice for the kids needs of wanting us to be together. When I say no to all of this nonsense he endlessly tells me I am selfish and not putting the kids first. I just want to check that I am doing the right thing, and that I am not being selfish towards my kids, should I be sacrificing myself for them and staying with him? All thoughts welcome. Thank you.

Of course you're doing the right thing. He really is in denial if he thinks it's appropriate for a wife whose divorcing her husband to move anywhere, let alone another country.

Looking at this from a different angle - is Germany one of those countries that refuses to allow children of divorced parents to move out of the country without the consent of the other parent ? It could be he's totally up to speed with the divorce proceedings and has his eye on taking and keeping the children in Germany.

If you don't want to go to Germany - then don't. Germany's not prefect, neither is the UK, but it's your home and for now it's your children's home.
I would check with your divorce solicitor on this angle of responsibility for the children. How much longer will the proceedings take?

Why on earth would anyone relocate to a different country with a man they are divorcing?! I’m sure you know that it would be very difficult to bring the children back to the UK if you wanted to, without his consent. Presumably he has realised that he is stuck here because of them and wants to reverse the situation. Errrrrm - nope!

I can see both pov. Totally understand that it would be madness to move countries with a man you're divorcing. But from his pov, the UK is about to become the biggest economic shitshow in the West when we no-deal Brexit on 1 January. There will be shortages of food and medication, mass unemployment, reduced food standards etc and why wouldn't he want to get his kids (and their mother, even if he doesn't love her) out of that?

He sounds completely in denial.

It also sounds like you didn’t like it in Germany and he doesn’t like it in England and both of you want the children to grow up in your preferred country?

If I was you, I’d dig my heels in for the children to stay in the country I want (obvs wouldn’t contemplate moving myself). However, I think it’s a sucky position to be in as there isn’t a solution that both parents would be happy with.

As the spouse of a German national you would be allowed to live there, so ignore that argument.

@DPotter
Yes - Germany is one of those countries, and I would need his agreement to leave with dc. As for the proceedings he is not engaging in anything, so it has been slow, it will take a long time to get to absolute. He goes from this to threatening he cannot afford to support us if I keep going with the divorce.

@HirplesWithHaggis He says he still loves me and wants the best for me and dc, even if I don't want to be with him. It is frightening thinking about what the future holds for the UK.

@Hopeisnotastrategy - apparently not anymore, when we last lived there they told me there is no automatic right as the spouse of a German national. Also, now that we are in divorce proceedings definitely not.

I can't help but feel controlled by him atm - like he wants to move us there, yes it may be better in some ways, but unheard of and absurd to give up my entire life to relocate with a man I am divorcing. Yet he tries to convince me the opposite,

Do not relocate with your children to Germany.

That is not true OP, look at EU law re spouses. It is a case close to my heart.

Not that I am trying to persuade you to move there if you are set on divorce. Just saying decide what you want and then take good independent advice before you decide. 💐

@Hopeisnotastrategy Thank you

You would probably get stuck in Germany until the children turn 18. What of your job prospects? Would you be able to support yourself there? Would you be financially dependent on him?
If things really do go south in the UK, there are other countries you move to- but on your own terms. Won't happen if you go with him.

I'd go and try to make a live in Germany for the sake of my kids.

I would just retort that he is the selfish one for wanting to rip the children away from where they are settled and have friends and family, at schools they love, for expecting you to give up your friends, family and support system not to mention your career and earning potential, to live in a loveless marriage in a country that he knows you hate and that also has lots of problems and that he is the selfish one for not thinking of the kids and for ignoring the divorce proceedings...

In fact any time he says something like that just have your mantra ready to fire back at him - that you’ll have to agree to disagree about that as he is the one being selfish and not thinking about the kids/ as he wanting to take them away for a worse life/ [as whatever he wants to do is the selfish/bad/etc choice and you are the rational/loving/best for kids choice].

Is there anything he does that could be considered to be coercive control or financial abuse or the other things that could help support your case and the divorce proceedings?

It's probably only 3-3 years before they can fly alone (lots of kids do) then they can spend holidays in Germany with him. You need to do what you want, the kids won't be kids forever

From my experience with an international divorce and all I've read - Don't do it. Let your kids live with you where you're all happy.

I think he may be playing you big time, then will file in Germany and screw you over completely with regard to access to your kids, your work, money, etc. If he wants parental sacrifice for the kids, fine let him be the one to do it.

Also don't believe the doom and gloom hype about Brexit. it's like the whole Y2K furor.

Yeah, i think one of the things people forget in their brit bashing is just how difficult it is to continue your career in many EU countries, and how lucky people coming into the UK have it by contrast.

You cant teach in Ireland without Irish
You cant hold any kind of public sector job in France without sitting the concours, these competitive and overly academic exams for really basic jobs.
You're saying it's the same in Germany.

It's not like in the UK where if you can show past experience and can basically string a sentence together you're good to go.

Of course you are doing the right thing.

You would be insane to move there when you're divorcing. Away from your support, your career, your life.

Of course he tells you you're being selfish etc because he doesn't want to leave the dc and he'd prefer to be in his home country.

One of you is shit out of luck, and it might as well be him, as you. From his perspective, you are selfish, but you'd be mad to do otherwise.

I realise not all germans are like this but I had to break up with one for the same reason. Endless comparisons about how shit we were here compared to his glorious homeland.

Endless comparisons about how shit we were here compared to his glorious homeland.

I had a German friend like that. He was really shocked at the poverty in the UK and what we'll put up with.

I think you should continue your divorce but let your children move to Germany with your exH.

The U.K. is going down the pan rapidly and you’d be foolish to deny them an opportunity of a better life in Germany than they’d get here.

I think one major issue OP would be facing is how hard it is to start over as a foreigner anywhere. That, coupled with very likely resentment for her ex would be extremely toxic for the children as well.

let your children move to Germany with your exH.

That is a terrible thing to suggest. They need their mum. It sounds like OP 's H has a job and a life here. The easiest answer is: the children keep both parents in the same country, ie. The UK.

The U.K. is going down the pan rapidly

As for that, I suggest we vote for a better government next time eh?

Just tell him to f*ck off.

What does the kids want to do? I think at that age, especially the secondary school child, they have a right to weigh in. Also because you and the dad is in disagreement.

I am a Swede desperate to move back to Sweden but my teenagers doesn't want to so I am just waiting them out and once they are grown up enough to live alone I will leave. I understand your exdh's thinking but I think he needs to put the children's needs before his own.