Divorce, Brexit, relocation, am I selfish for not going?

[NotSelenaGomez]

I have 2dc, one at primary, one secondary. Been with dh 15 years, and honestly that last 1.5 - 2 years have been pretty dead in terms of our relationship with each other. I have filed for divorce and he has failed to respond to the papers he was served with. He accepts its over but does still tell me to just try a bit harder and that things could work out, I know they won’t, and have no desire to try anything. I’m slowly ploughing through the proceedings regardless of him. We get on well most of the time, and co-parent effectively. He is an EU national, and I’m a Brit – I love my country. He is pestering me to move to his country, Germany, and become resident before some date in December, as after that it won’t be so easy for me to live there. DC have dual nationality so they will be fine. I have told him I can’t go, I would be very unhappy there, we have lived there before, I hated it, I have a career but couldn’t work there as my language was not up to the very high standard the Germans wanted. I’d be leaving family, friends, social networks, a job and home that I love, my kids love their schools. Not to mention – why would I move away with someone I’m divorcing, WTH! He says I am selfish for putting my own happiness first, and above that of the children. That it would be better for the dc to live with both parents, in a safer society, with better schooling, better prospects, better healthcare etc. It annoys me when he says things like dc will fail in life because of my selfishness at making them like in a crap country where kids are in gangs and there is so much crime amongst youth. He also thinks we can continue living in a loveless marriage and should do so as a sacrifice for the kids needs of wanting us to be together. When I say no to all of this nonsense he endlessly tells me I am selfish and not putting the kids first. I just want to check that I am doing the right thing, and that I am not being selfish towards my kids, should I be sacrificing myself for them and staying with him? All thoughts welcome. Thank you.

@Songsofexperience
Yes I don't trust him one single bit now.
thank you
This is so stressful - I know it'll get better, and one day life will be calmer without him in it.

Here's info from January:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/parental-responsibility-involving-eu-from-1-january-2021/parental-responsibility-involving-eu-from-1-january-2021

It will get better.

See a solicitor who understands the international angle of the divorce. Be informed and then make a choice. Kids can move between countries if he is set on going. Your life is in the UK and your children need you. Do not do anything that you do not understand the implications of; be mindful who has the passports..

If someone isn’t replying in writing I use a paragraph after you have set out what you want

If I have not had a response in writing from you in X number of days I will take it that you agree to what I have set out above.

Or words to that effect

That way if he doesn’t respond in writing then he is agreeing to your terms and if he responds then you have things in writing

IMHO, he is setting this up to take them to Germany & refuse to return them. (formerly it has been impossible to get children back in this scenario.I know of someone who lost their son in this situation)
Do not let DC out of your sight, better still go away for the half term...
Do not listen to his lies.
If he doesn't want to split the family he can stay in the UK.
Why should it be you making all the sacrifices? (The quality of living in Germany being better as an aside).

IMHO, he is setting this up to take them to Germany & refuse to return them. (formerly it has been impossible to get children back in this scenario.I know of someone who lost their son in this situation)
Do not let DC out of your sight, better still go away for the half term...
Do not listen to his lies.
If he doesn't want to split the family he can stay in the UK.
Why should it be you making all the sacrifices? (The quality of living in Germany being better as an aside).

I absolutely 100% agree with this OP.. 🌺

can you check with the passport office to confirm no new passports have been issued. 🤔

He is right - Germany is much better than the UK (just research Covid stats or education). Your children are lucky that they can move. I would grab the opportunity to move, too. As for your language skills, languages can be learnt if you put in some hard work.

As for your language skills, languages can be learnt if you put in some hard work.

Did you read the OP and also some of the other posts about language skills in Germany?
They demand the absolute highest standards of German which are almost impossible for a non-native speaker to meet.
Depending on the OP's career and qualifications she could well have little to no chance of getting a job and making progress in her career and not through lack of hard work.

There is no way I would move in these circumstances.

@Readr

He is right - Germany is much better than the UK (just research Covid stats or education). Your children are lucky that they can move. I would grab the opportunity to move, too. As for your language skills, languages can be learnt if you put in some hard work.

The education system has a good reputation. In fact, Germany came out surprisingly poorly on the PISA tests years ago, but the UK didn't do any better. Education and housing here are very cheap. Covid levels have been lower . Health insurance is extremely expensive. The system is complicated - tax, insurances, how to live here. Very different to the UK, confusing and stressful for newcomers.

Language skills are not just down to hard work. It also takes literally years and years. And even if you have the skills, if you want to work in most jobs here you also need the qualification for that job. If OP is not qualified as a supermarket assistant, for instance, she'd need to have a qualification as a Kauffrau im Einzelhandel or equivalent. That apprenticeship takes 3 years, and she would only be able to start that course once her German was at least B2, which takes about 600 hours of learning if you are a very fast learner.

Germany is well known among expats as being a difficult stint. I speak great German and can work and make friends, here, but still, for a divorcee it's a lonely place. OP would not have any family in Germany, and no-one to offer her the support she would need. Much as I like it in Germany, I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wasn't super keen to come here. Obviously also not to someone who has no good reason to move away from her friends and family precisely at the moment she needs support most. The kids can come here when they're bigger if they want.

All the above. And also the fact that full time childcare can be hard to find.

Read your posts. Those are the reasons you are divorcing him. Stop listening to his nonsense. If you live in a secure, nice area then your DC will be fine. He needs to stop reading the daily mail propoganda about how bad england is.

I also lived and worked in Germany, and did like it, but became so homesick I gave it up. Never regretted it. To live well in a different country you really need to want desperately to be there.

Ask your solicitor if you can have a prohibited steps order against your EXH, it will prevent him from removing your dc from this country. And he is proven flight risk as he’s moved permanently back to his home country.

I had copies of the prohibited steps order sent to the passport agency so my dc couldn’t have passports taken out by anyone other than me and they cannot be removed from the country without my permission. It lasts till they reach 17.

He is right - Germany is much better than the UK

It wouldn’t matter if Germany was heaven on Earth. NotSelenaGomez has lived there and hated it.

Germany might be fantastic and have amazing health care and education etc
But would you want to live there if it meant you would be miserable living in a loveless marriage and if you left you lost your children.

@Oliversmumsarmy

I sent him an email with words to this effect:
If I have not had a response in writing from you in X number of days I will take it that you agree to what I have set out above.

His response was that this is evidence that I am controlling him. I did give him x no of days to reply, and said please could you...
Is this really controlling? He messes with my head so much. Surely any reasonable person would just reply and acknowledge the email instead of saying I'm controlling for wanting a reply, expecting a reply, and for assuming something without him having expressed it. He also said he will not reply to anything I ask because that way he would be responding to being controlled by me, and then I'll start to control him more.

If you really want to, you can describe any attempt at organisation as "controlling". Saying "Let's meet up on Tuesday" can be interpreted as controlling if you are determined to see every interaction as a fight. So if he really likes, he can say that you trying to determine where you and your children live is "controlling". However, if that is controlling, then so are his actions. So are everyone's actions.

He is trying to guilt you into doing stuff by making you out to be a horrible person. It's only working because you are entertaining the idea that you are a horrible person. Why do you think you might be horrible?

"Of course I'm trying to control what happens to my children. If that makes me "controlling" then sure, call me that if you like. I can think of worse insults."

@NotSelenaGomez Get you solicitor to take out a prohibited steps order and move forward with the divorce, you can serve a divorce petition overseas, I'd get a server to do so, and get divorced from him.

He is the controlling abusive one, he wants you where he has the upper hand and you are stuck due to your DC being in a country you do not wish to reside in and your DC will not benefit from.

Stop engaging with him, get legalities done and ensure your DC are safe and with you.

Maybe do the freedom programme and stop doubting yourself.

meant to add, if a server gives him the divorce papers, he does not need to acknowledge the papers, you can still push through with the divorce.

My solicitor told me he'd served papers in various countries for clients.

frazzledasarock well summarised

@frazzledasarock
Thank you, he has been served papers in June! Would you believe! He has failed to respond and deliberately so, as he has told me he is not going to engage in a British divorce. My solicitor is in the process of getting a hearing at which he will ask for me to be allowed the nisi, and to proceed on the basis of the evidence I have that ex is refusing to respond. Fingers crossed the judge will grant this, and I can proceed. When I asked him to please respond to the papers he also told me I was being controlling and threatening.

I don't think I'm a horrible person, I have friends who like me, and family, and colleagues who I get on well with - the people I love who love me would tell me if I was a controlling bully, I have never in my life been called that apart from by him. Ex is very introverted quiet and has hardly any friends.

British divorces are described in Germany as being better for the wife, compared with German divorces. And he wants to have a German-speaking divorce as that will be easier for him in terms of language.
Like yours, my ex also turned confrontational and suspicious when it came to the divorce.

You know you're not being threatening and controlling. You know why he's saying it.

Of course you're not a horrible person.

Divorce brings out the worst and it is so hard hearing the mother/father of your children say horrible things about you. It makes you doubt everything about your relationship before divorce. It is so hard to believe some things that people say about each other when splitting up. But it is mostly a defense against hurt and loneliness and has no meaning. The problem is that you think they know you best and therefore think there is truth. You have to rely on friends and family at these times for perspective.

That is why you must stay in the UK. This would be alot worse if you were isolated in Germany.