Divorce, Brexit, relocation, am I selfish for not going?

[NotSelenaGomez]

I have 2dc, one at primary, one secondary. Been with dh 15 years, and honestly that last 1.5 - 2 years have been pretty dead in terms of our relationship with each other. I have filed for divorce and he has failed to respond to the papers he was served with. He accepts its over but does still tell me to just try a bit harder and that things could work out, I know they won’t, and have no desire to try anything. I’m slowly ploughing through the proceedings regardless of him. We get on well most of the time, and co-parent effectively. He is an EU national, and I’m a Brit – I love my country. He is pestering me to move to his country, Germany, and become resident before some date in December, as after that it won’t be so easy for me to live there. DC have dual nationality so they will be fine. I have told him I can’t go, I would be very unhappy there, we have lived there before, I hated it, I have a career but couldn’t work there as my language was not up to the very high standard the Germans wanted. I’d be leaving family, friends, social networks, a job and home that I love, my kids love their schools. Not to mention – why would I move away with someone I’m divorcing, WTH! He says I am selfish for putting my own happiness first, and above that of the children. That it would be better for the dc to live with both parents, in a safer society, with better schooling, better prospects, better healthcare etc. It annoys me when he says things like dc will fail in life because of my selfishness at making them like in a crap country where kids are in gangs and there is so much crime amongst youth. He also thinks we can continue living in a loveless marriage and should do so as a sacrifice for the kids needs of wanting us to be together. When I say no to all of this nonsense he endlessly tells me I am selfish and not putting the kids first. I just want to check that I am doing the right thing, and that I am not being selfish towards my kids, should I be sacrificing myself for them and staying with him? All thoughts welcome. Thank you.

He accepts its over but does still tell me to just try a bit harder and that things could work out

He needs to try harder, not you.

He's being an arrogant dick, telling you it's all down to you to make things works.

He's gaslighting you and telling you how you should feel.

Delusional. Just press on with the divorce if you've made your mind up, he'll get the message eventually.

There are knowns and unknowns. You know what it's like for you in Germany and you don't like it. You know what the rules are re divorce in Germany and what implications they will have on your life. We don't yet know exactly what shit storm awaits post Brexit but if I were you @NotSelenaGomez I would take that chance over what you know about Germany any day. DH is using Brexit fears as a means to manipulate you - don't fall for it. What about education- Germany is a fairly brutal and rigid system depending on how bright the children are.

@daisychain01 Yes I think you are spot on, he is gas lighting me.

@TheTeenageYears Yes the education system is brutal, my dc both have learning needs, dyslexia, dyscalculia, so will end up in the lowest tier. I can't have that. Yes he is using Brexit fears, he says what do you want a passport for one country, or one that allows you access across 25+ countries.

Yes he is using Brexit fears, he says what do you want a passport for one country, or one that allows you access across 25+ countries

I doubt a UK passport holder will be banned from entering an EU country post BREXIT.
So that argument is rubbish

But having this Golden Passport comes with the fact that you and your children can’t actually visit any of these 25+ countries without his permission.

Thank you everyone, I have a shocking update.
He has left, and moved into a flat in Germany.
He has registered himself as resident, got health insurance, and got the dc on the health insurance.
He says he's coming back to visit dc next weekend, and wants them to spend half term with him there, so I can have some time to myself, I am also welcome if I want to go with them.
He's saying the dc are sad, which they are at him suddenly leaving, and if I stop them seeing him I'm being selfish and hurting them.
I spoke to my solicitor who said the dc do not step foot on a plane full stop. He will only consider it if dh signs and agrees to a UK court order that states dc are uk residents, this is their home, I am primary carer, they will only ever visit him for holidays etc.

@ClareBlue
My solicitor has long believed that he wants to file divorce in Germany and that's why he has refused to engage in any of the proceedings here, and if he gets an opportunity to do that I am fucked.

I have no idea what is going on in his head.
He's also started lots of talk about family finances.

Can you start divorce proceedings here in the UK as he has left.
Beat him to it.
No way would I be letting the children out of my sight.

I would be going away for the 1/2 term holidays. Even going the day before he is due to fly in and turning your phone off and staying with friends or an Airbnb. No SM. Just go off grid for the week.

Again he is telling you how it is going to be.
Time to say no.

I stop them seeing him I'm being selfish and hurting them.

Just remain calm and assure him it's not your intention, but that you want to do things properly and that he will need to work with you -not against you- for the good of the kids.

Good idea with the solicitor's letter. She or he should perhaps include information on European law on child abduction, just "for his information" and as neutrally as possible. europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/family/children/abduction/faq/index_en.htm
I would also take the kids' passports and ID cards to a safe place your dh does not have access to. That is, their German passport, their British passport and their German Personalausweis, three forms of ID each.

He has the right to divorce you from abroad, though - unless you get in there first, presumably, and launch proceedings in the UK today, with written evidence of the timing? If he manages to organise it in Germany, you could go to the "Toytown Germany" website and ask there about English-speaking divorce lawyers in Germany. Toytown would generally be able to provide you with useful information.

@Oliversmumsarmy
@Songsofexperience

Thank you. I am panicking, but am told he is not allowed to leave the country with them without my consent. I am going to try to get away from home.

I have tried to stay calm, but end up shouting in frustration, when I tell him I'm not trying to keep them away from him, he will keep saying I am and when I get frustrated he questions my mental wellbeing, and will say this could all stop if I just worked on us being a family I can't describe it, it's kind of a 'crazy making' feeling.

The stuff about selfishness is just designed to soften you up and should be resolutely ignored so that you are not distracted from his obvious attempts to move the kids abroad. Forget about who is being selfsh or not, it is just a ploy to get your eye off the ball. Concentrate on the legal matters.

@ravenmum
My solicitor started the divorce proceedings and petition in June, ex has failed to respond. Solicitor is trying to get me the decree nisi now. Which is possible even if he doesn't engage after a certain time. He never replied to the petition, which gave him 7 days to do so.

I have tried to stay calm, but end up shouting in frustration, when I tell him I'm not trying to keep them away from him, he will keep saying I am and when I get frustrated he questions my mental wellbeing, and will say this could all stop if I just worked on us being a family I can't describe it, it's kind of a 'crazy making' feeling.
Stop engaging with his gaslighting. He's not on your team, you will not get anything useful out of discussion with him.

[quote NotSelenaGomez]@ravenmum
My solicitor started the divorce proceedings and petition in June, ex has failed to respond. Solicitor is trying to get me the decree nisi now. Which is possible even if he doesn't engage after a certain time. He never replied to the petition, which gave him 7 days to do so.[/quote]
This is good. I guess it was sent by registered delivery?

Well, by the same argument, he should stay in the UK for the sake of the DCs!

@NotSelenaGomez Half term is only a few weeks ago so it really won't have been that long since (D)H has seen DC so absolutely no reason for you to feel any guilt for doing what you need to do which is take them somewhere yourself and don't allow him unsupervised contact. He has shown his intent by not engaging in divorce proceedings here and now by leaving. He is not to be trusted. Your solicitor sounds sensible the only thing I would say is a piece of paper he might sign stating the DC are U.K. resident is a tiny level of protection against him keeping them in Germany. It would have to be pursued through the courts to exercise and could take months if not years to have the DC returned to you.

If you refuse him access he's going to have to drag you through the UK courts in order to get that. Messy but probably your best option right now. I've lived in multiple countries around the world in the last 12 years (inc Germany) and heard of some horror stories in this area with children. I'm not sure what the rules would be currently if the DC were taken to Germany and not returned but as of 1st Jan it's sure to be a whole lot messier and much like the banking industry who are rapidly closing accounts of Brits living in the EU because they don't have the banking regulations in place to deal with non U.K. residents living in Europe post Brexit, the courts could be a very muddled place for a while.

Half term - a few weeks away, not ago

All the time he is telling you how you should feel. How things should be.

Do it my way.

If you don’t then you are mental.

The reply to all this would have been.

If he replied in June about the divorce then all this could have been sorted by now and he would be free to go to Germany and everything would have been sorted by now.

I don’t think you are wanting for your children in the long term to stop seeing their father but atm there is nothing in place for you to know that they would be brought back to this country after the holidays so taking them away and not telling anyone where you are going and turning your phone off is the only thing you can do in the short term for the half term.

It wouldn’t surprise me to find out he had already booked them into a school or at least made some form of enquiries

If you can get any of this discussion in writing it could be useful if, in future, you need to show that he was apparently trying to move the kids without your consent. For example, if you sent him an email saying that you refuse to let the kids move, and he is not allowed to move them without your consent, it would be interesting to see if he would write an email back threatening to move them anyway, in some form or another.

Yes; possibly write to the local schools in the area in question saying that your husband has made enquiries and asking them to send you the information too. If they answer that he has not made enquiries, it was a misunderstanding. If they reply with details, print out and save the email as evidence.
The kids would have to be enrolled in a German school immediately under German law.

Quite a long article but you might find it useful to read up on The Hague Convention:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention_on_the_Civil_Aspects_of_International_Child_Abduction

@ravenmum
I sent an email like that in August when he wanted to take dc on holiday to Germany, I said no, and I refuse to allow them to move, and he can't move them. He didn't reply.
But verbally told me that he would never trick me or the dc like that.

Also for the divorce I need to know his earnings, he has refused to tell me what he earns, even before the divorce if I ever asked what he earned in a particular month (his pay changes month to month with bonuses) he would respond with "I don't want to talk about that, why are you harassing me, you are trying to control me by making me tell you so I can't tell you..."
I mean how is that controlling, surely every wife knows what their husbands earn, and husbands don't have a problem sharing that info.

verbally told me that he would never trick me or the dc like that.

But he is obviously capable of making big sudden moves (like moving to Germany), so how can you trust him?
Also I'd be very concerned about his lack of transparency with regards to finances. He needs to demonstrate good will by a) being entirely open about his plans b) communicating in writing on everything, for your mutual records c) sharing a proper audit of his/your family finances.
Based on what you've said I wouldn't trust him at all right now.

Germany is very big on getting evidence in writing. He knows that though, obviously. If you can get him to set anything down in writing acknowledging that you are not giving him consent, it would be great. Ideally, though, you should have this all in writing, e.g. by refusing to speak to him on the phone.

Sounds like he has been gaslighting/manipulating you for quite some time, then. He's doing it deliberately to distract you: the busier you are wondering if you are being unreasonable or denying that you are being controlling, the muddier things will be and the less time you will have to organise the divorce. Don't enter into discussion on selfishness or reasonableness. Tell him to give you proper evidence of the financial information you require by Monday. If this does not happen, your solicitor sends him a registered letter telling him the same thing.