Did your brother ever say anything inappropriate to you? *MNHQ adding content warning for abuse*

[Sarahpaula]

I was just feeling a bit sad about this today. I have a brother who is two years older than me.
He has said two inappropriate things to me that I can remember well.

When we were teenagers he said "I want to be in you".
I said 'what!', and he said he was joking.

When we were in my twenties, I was around his flat. He said how he wasn't dating anyone, and how he really wanted a girlfriend. I was thinking in a normal way, that we were talking about our respective dating lives, and how we were not seeing anyone. He said 'I really want a girlfriend", and I said 'yes, and I would like a boyfriend'!. He then said "So why don't we..." and paused. I said 'what' and he said no more. It made me so uncomfortable.

My aunty has also told me that one of her brothers tried it on with her, whenhe was drunk, and she was really upset about it. One of my friends also told me that one of her brothers has made her very uncomfortable several times.

Has this happened to anyone else? I am sad about it. I see my brother at my mother's house, but I don't go around his flat anymore.

I am so sad about it. I just have the feeling of "why can't men respect fucking boundaries, Are they that animalistic that they see every woman as something they can say anything to?"

@Sarahpaula It is very common. Or at least, used to be. I remember being in a group of people (this was 30 years ago at uni) and someone confessed to abusing their younger brother when they were children. I was so shocked I thought I was going to be sick. Then several other people confessed the same. These were 'normal' people, certainly not people that you would suspect of such a thing.

However, your DB's behaviour from when you were in your twenties IS very worrying. I am sorry you are going through this.

While I wouldn't have put this in AIBU myself, it's up to the OP where it goes.

To be honest, I've talked about my experiences elsewhere online before, and in person, but other than my schoolfriends I've not spoken to anyone else who was abused by a sibling. Until this thread.
That's a long time (25 years) to not have a conversation with someone who's been in the same boat.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander - I'll try set up a support whatnot tomorrow - I'll aim for the relationships board, unless anyone has another suggestion?

Jesus I’m so sorry for you all, what a horrific thread.

I’m so sad that that happened to you op and others.

I think back to my own childhood with four older brothers and it was lovely. I would think nothing of sneaking in to their room to cuddle up in bed with them whenever I was feeling scared, ill or lonely (I couldn’t with mum because conversely I didn’t trust step dad at all).

They would have (still would probably!) ripped apart anyone who tried to hurt me.

I remember DM once talking in hushed tones about something like this with her friends in the kitchen. It was the ‘weird’ family on the estate. Are these boys abused/witness abuse usually? It’s hard to accept that some might just do it because they can.

Hi everyone,
We hope you all don't mind but a few people asked us to add a content warning for this thread and to move it to relationships, and having looked we're inclined to agree that's a better board for this (imperfect, sorry, but close).
We have moved it now, we're sending everyone virtual and hoping that we have done the right thing. In strength. x

apple.news/AMEW-1f6dSNOZWUaoCGhN1A

Thanks @HopeMumsnet

I'll try an opening post for another thread in a bit. I'm thinking that it definitely needs a content warning in the title and main text; I'd also like to suggest adding them within individual posts if needed.

Not sure whether it should be a thread for women who have experienced elder sibling sexual abuse, whether that needs to be widened to incestuous abuse, and whether I should be even specifying it's for women - afaik our common ground on this thread is abuse by an older male sibling, but I don't know that we're all female. Or if it's relevant.

Apologies if I'm overthinking this...

(I've namechanged from @Facefullofcake for this post)

Surely there should be an 'abuse' board or better named a 'surviving abuse' board? It's such an important subject, comes up really often, and there'd be less need of trigger warnings as one would know there was going to be discussion of abuse if the thread was there? @HopeMumsnet if there isn't one - seems there isn't - could it be considered? Thank you.

OP I'm so glad you've found the thread supportive.

"He said 'I really want a girlfriend"

From his response to your reply (yeah and I'd really like a boyfriend) it's obvious that what he meant was "I really want sex" .. and clearly from his response (alongside the previous disturbing comment about wanting to be in you) that he sees being siblings/blood relatives as no major obstacle to that.

(It's clear that he projects that thinking onto others, in that case you as well; as people often do. I.e. apparently most child abusers believe everyone would do it if they could).

Whatever range of primitive/psychological dysfunction etc that's on ... It's safe to say you're lucky he hadn't actually acted on it (apparently) to date, esp when you were younger and less able to defend yourself, and that you should stay a continent or two away from him .... And much more importantly, never let him within kilometres of any children you may have.

There is definitely a portion of people on the population who think like this, the vast majority male by the looks of it.
They are dangerous.

Woah, I am so sorry (((())).

I have 2 brothers and never anything inappropriate or sexual. I have sons and daughters and there isn't anything like that. Both in my siblings and children's cases they just annoy each other.

Everyone would do it if they could
I recently listened to a podcast series about Fred and rose West, according to Which Fred West admitted to sexually abusing his younger sister and said 'doesn't everyone'
I was a victim of sexual abuse by a 10 years older male relative when I was a very young child starting around age 2 or 3, when I spoke out he was protected I was ignored attacked and shutdown, treated as if it was my fault, as if I had deliberately tempted him and it wouldn't be fair to punish him in any way☹️
He went on to sexually abuse his own children, but still was protected.

Your brother's behaviour so young, and the fact that your father abused his child too, would make me think that your brother was perhaps also abused by your father.

Never. My brother is a wonderful and decent human.

So sorry you experienced this. Your brother is a predator.

💐💐

"Children who have witnessed or experienced sexual abuse. Children who have been abused, either by family members or by adults or older children, sometimes react by becoming physically aggressive. They may also react by coaxing, manipulating, or forcing younger children into the same kind of sexual behaviour. In this way, brothers and sisters may become the victims of this "second-hand" abuse. Children who act out their own sexual abuse are sometimes called "sexually reactive". It's important for you to know that children who are being sexually victimized may become sexually intrusive."
www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/health-promotion/stop-family-violence/prevention-resource-centre/children/sibling-sexual-abuse-guide-parents.html#Wha2

"Sexually Reactive Children"
mental-health-matters.com/sexually-reactive-children/

Trigger warning

My brother once said something worse to me too. I just remembered

I am sorry if this upsets anyone.

I was staying over in his flat, and I was sleeping on the couch. This was two years ago. He came down from the bedroom, and walked through the living room and told me he was going out to the kitchen for a smoke. He was sitting out there smoking and I heard him say to himself "well I am never going to get a girlfriend." Then a pause. Then he said to himself " No, I can't rape my little sister". Then he came back in, said goodnight to me and went back to his room.

Needless to say, I haven't visited him since. Or been alone with him. I usually see him about once a year at christmas at my mum's house.

Yes also a victim of abuse. My mum left me with my older brother and father at the age of 9, I never saw her again until the age of 15.
My dad needed support and left me with my Aunt, uncle and 2 male cousins in the school holidays whilst he worked.
I have been abused by the two male cousins and my uncle. Individually. I don’t know if they knew about each other, and what they were each doing.
I then left the home to live with a friend and her daughter, aged 16 and was abused by her boyfriend, he happened to be 32. Also drug raped on a night out aged 21, I since found out he was schizophrenic, he died a year later. It sounds so awful it almost sounds not true.
Unfortunately it is.
To be honest at times I felt it’s been my fault that I have had this level of abuse throughout my life.
My family still don’t know, I have confided in my dh in the past. He’s been my rock throughout.

@Lifeislikeaboxofchocolat I feel totally the same. I feel like is there a sign on my head saying "abuse me".

Both my dad (touching) and my brother (touching) and sexual comments, were sexually abusive to me.
My mother has also said to me that when I was very young, a toddler, I told her that my granddad - my dad's dad, was touching me. She wouldn't let me alone around him again. I don't remember this, but it makes me sad.
At the end of the day, it was never ever our fault. I know about too many families where this happens.

Men just take advantage of some one weaker than them.

@Lifeislikeaboxofchocolat I send you loads of love. Remember it was never your fault. Too many men just take advantage, and sexually bully some one who is weaker tham them

[quote Sarahpaula]@Lifeislikeaboxofchocolat I send you loads of love. Remember it was never your fault. Too many men just take advantage, and sexually bully some one who is weaker tham them[/quote]
Thank you, that’s so kind.
I just felt that not having my mum around, when starting to develop age 9 and hitting my teenage years, the male family members took advantage of the situation.
Again I must stress my dad and brother do not know and hopefully never will about this. They would be distraught.
Im quite petite and and Im guessing my abusers see that as vulnerable looking in a way. It turns my stomach, that they took advantage knowing I didn’t have any female support.
To be honest though I’m quite a strong character so I have compartmentalised it all and stored in a box and locked it all away.
I don’t think about it per se. But when I do, I feel guilty, almost like I allowed it to happen.
Lots of what ifs, but it will only upset me more if I question it as I cannot change it.
Wishing you strength love and happiness to move forward xx

Saying all that I have said, I still love my brother. I barely see him but I still love him.

It is a very low bar of thought, that comes from being round lots of abusive men, and abuse being nearly normalised to me, but I think "at least my brother didn't rape me".

It is all very sad though, and of course I love myself too and I will not be alone with him

Er no, I have a brother two years older than me who I can't even fathom saying anything appropriate around me. Not in a million years, no way.

It happened my best friend. She has no contact with him.

Lifeislikeaboxofchocolat
None of it was your fault, none of it.
It's all on them, all of it is on them.
You were and are innocent.
Please believe me

almost like I allowed it to happen
no, you trusted them and they took advantage of that, they knew exactly what they were doing and targeted you because you were vulnerable.
They are predators, once you've been abused and traumatized your ability to spot predators can get very messed up.
Not your fault.

Sarahpaula your brother sounds sociopathic:(
I'm glad you continue to protect yourself from him.