Concerns about DW and therapist - am I paranoid?

[StonedRoses]

I’ve posted before about my concerns about the Male therapist has been seeing for the last three years. Let’s call him John. He’s a little unorthodox and the process has lead to my DW going nc with her entire family. I’ve really no idea about whether the memories they have unearthed are correct or not. But that’s a side issue to today

One of my concerns has been the frequency of contact. Often 2-3 times a week. Text and email between and often arranged at short notice. There have been emergency they sit sessions, sometimes meeting at a local park or in the car

This week she told me on Friday at 5pm she had a phone call with John at 6. Then she left the house to make the call from the car, for privacy of course. However she then drove off and come back a couple of hours later.
Again yesterday her scheduled session is Thursday. Mid afternoon she text me to say she has another session straight after work

A friend of mine who can be a bit cynical has said to me ‘are you sure there’s nothing else going on’. And it’s got me thinking. I’m sure there isn’t and I hate feeling paranoid. But even so it does feel like current contact is OTT and rather eating into family time.

Have you actually spoken to John
Was he the one who told you about the photos being staged?
Has he actually directly told you about the abuse?

Or was this relayed to you by your wife?

You say you have spoken to her sister about the abuse yet she has cut contact with her family?

It seems much of this situation is covered by etiquette of confidentiality.

Your posts make me think your vulnerable wife is being abused by her therapist, why are you letting this happen ?
You know it’s not right but you are doing nothing, it’s been 3 years. I wish someone had stepped in and helped me sooner when I was being abused.

43 what exactly would you do if you were OP then? He tried to complain to the therapy proffesional body but got nowhere - have you rread the whole thread? Should he call the police - but what if wife is devastated by such drastic outcome and then hates the OP. She is atttached to JOhn, have you understood that? It needs very careful approach, I'd be at a loss same as OP.

God this is potentially scary - what if he is a hypnotist who puts these scanarios in people's heads to get attachment from them? This is very weird and scary that he is available at the drop of a hat as if there is a major co-dependency going on.
What a nightmare for you, OP! I think you need to follow her to know for sure if she goes to see him and not someone else, for a start. I know it's not ethical - but think of it as the only way to help HER as literally no other options aer there.

Another horrid scenario is that she is seeing another man altogether and has made up the whole story about therapy/issues as a cover up but really this would be much more horrendous than the first one as what would that make your wife (at least if JOhn is a lunatic/narcissist, he's not your other half). Mind boggles.

regarding going to police, I meant to add that another huge risk would be causing career death / distress to John if these allegations were not correct.

First port of call follow her
Hire PI
Acertain whether this is an affair.

If its not, go to Gp explain everthing of your concerns over past three years.
Find a local Minister, you'd be amazed the advice you can obtain from them, both confidential.

From there they may even advise you to go to the police.
What you cannot do is just wait for this all to play out because of good manners.

Plese don't think we are attacking you OP. I think the PP are genuinely concerned for you and your wife's welfare.

None of this sits right and is quite frankly bizarre.

I can speak as someone who did have repressed memories of childhood SA at the hands of my F. But my DSis did too, and we both remembered them independently from each other and with different details which fitted together. There have also been two police investigations, one of which led to a suspect being traced but with the CPS deciding that there was insufficient evidence despite the police being convinced that they had their man. (He was an accomplice of someone we did know, who was by then dead.)

An important point is that we DID NOT retrieve memories in our therapy sessions; they came back on their own and we processed them in therapy and our therapists were very careful to avoid probing for more details. The police also had access to the therapists' records.

We also had EMDR, but after the police had taken our statements.

My DB has no memories of the abuse, although it did involve him. However, he's very seriously damaged and has images in his head of child abuse which torment him.

Your DW's 'therapy' sounds very worrying, OP, especially as her therapist is discouraging her from going to the police. Surely, if he was confident that her memories are real, he would want the police to be involved as the abusers could still be a danger to children?

I'm not saying that your DW didn't go through SRA btw. It really does happen. But there are far too many alarm bells with this whole scenario, particularly the fact that her sister has no memories of it at all.

It also worries me that he controls the narrative and keeps her away from police and authorities. He’s so fucking dangerous.

I cannot fathom people's impotence. "What an impossible situation" "oh my goodness what can you do?"

There are a number of options being spelled out here - formal routes through GP, adult social services or police.

Informal e.g. church minister.

Hand wringing "what ifs" is not a responsible, mature response to the details shared here.

And looking back at previous threads nothing appears to have moved on at all in 3 years.

This is a safeguarding issue. Adults can be vulnerable too and your wife, if everything is as you describe, is extremely vulnerable to abuse RIGHT NOW.

@justilou1 Exactly. Therapists are supposed to be empowering their clients to make their own decision about whether to involve the police.

This whole situation so so sad.

Horrific to think she went through what she is recalling.

Equally horrific to think maybe she did have the childhood she initially thought she did, and that false ‘memories’ have taken over and affected her life (and yours, your children’s and her family’s) so severely 😔

Couple of thoughts, sorry if they’re repeat

Have you ever spoken to John directly? Told him you are worried about her? Asked him if he receives professional supervision?
Spoken to the person that recommended him about their experiences?

Secondly I think the suggestion of trying to get to couples counselling is a good one - you say that when you discuss it it ends in an argument so having someone else there might help with that and could help her to see that your concerns are valid?

Something definitely feels off about it I have to say.
Valid points made above about how he’s so available for her - what about other clients?

All this contact is surely ONLY causing her to be dependent on him, Therapy is supposed to end at some point, he has ingratiated himself into her daily routine so well that it's going to be difficult to end that dependency. She will miss him when it ends. He knows that, as a therapist.

Nothing about this sounds like therapy. It all sounds like something shadier

Surely the therapist is duty bound to report to police if there is a possibility of other children within the family being abused too.

It’s time to be proactive and not hiding away as the good man. PI or bug the car yes you’ve said that would seem you don’t trust her but do you actually trust her 100%

3 times a week and this is year 3 come on wake up and do something about it as this will affect the kids as they get older. Plus why would you be the weekend Disney dad that part didn’t make sense at all.

Yes I’ve read the whole thread.
He’s admitted his wife is in a vulnerable situation yet he only contacted the professional body, he never persued the complaint. If he detailed everything in writing of course it would be flagged up as breaching the professional code of conduct. He’s being given lots of advice on ascertaining where his wife and what’s happening but he said he doesn’t want to interfere. Hes worried he would split up hos family and because he doesn’t want to be a Disney dad.
I believe everyone has a duty to protect the vulnerable and stand up to abuse and what I clearly a very unprofessional/dangerous ‘therapist’ . This women has been alienated from all her family, as is classic move with abusers.
I agree with you completely it’s very difficult for the op but griefmonster response sums up perfectly what needs said.
Op i hope you find a way to deal with this, good luck!

Surely the therapist is duty bound to report to police if there is a possibility of other children within the family being abused too

This with fucking bells on! When I went to therapy for my historic child abuse the very first thing out of his mouth was that he would have to report the person who abused me if other children were at risk, it was a legal duty he had. In my case my abuser was dead for a few years.

OP what you have been told is not adding up, during my therapy my Therapist never met me in a car park, never had emails or calls in between sessions, never advised me against reporting to authorities and the entire point of the process was to help me understand what had happened was not my fault and the focus was to help me become more resilient and confident in myself, the point of the therapy process was to get me out of therapy, it was a failure to have me be dependent on therapy for years on end with me becoming reliant on a therapist to function in life. You need to speak to a GP as a matter of urgency, you need to keep on this, none of it is right.

OP, I think you need to speak to John's Supervisor. They are supposed to ensure he is working within the ethical boundaries of his registered body. Do you know who this is? Call them.

This is all very worrying, reminds me of my close friend, she suddenly had lots of insane memories coming back, all of insane childhood abuse. I'd lived next door and went to shcool with her, it just couldnt have been true.
Eventually, she was diagnosed as schitzophrenic.

Thankfully once the meds kicked in she's been great, but she told me how real the memories seemed. How they started in a real memory and then morphed into something else.

She knows now it didn't happen, but at the time she was terrified.

Are you sure she is really even talking to this therapist ?

My friend had a man she invented, who was appearing to her in the memories and telling her the future.

In saying this my friend was extremely anxious, not sleeping or eating, so it was clear there was something seriously wrong.

Is your wife functioning otherwise normally ?

@Dontbeme Yes that's true. It wasn't an issue in our case, as our F had been dead for many years. As soon as I realised that the abuser in our memories was very likely to be alive I knew I had to report him so the therapist didn't need to press me about that. Sadly, as I said, although the police did trace him, there wasn't a realistic prospect of conviction. I was reassured to be told that our allegation was on record and would be highlighted in DBS checks

Other than that, the only person who could have been prosecuted was my DB, but the police decided (with our consent) that it wasn't in the public interest to pursue it. He was also abused himself, as well as being groomed to abuse us. He has no contact with my DDs or my DSis's DC, or with any other kids.

OP, you have to start thinking about this in a different way (and quickly). You need to start thinking of your wife as a vulnerable adult and you are the only one who is going to advocate and fight for her.

It sounds like your wife is in an abusive relationship with her counsellor. Alienating the victim from family and friends is classic abuser territory. The level of dependency she has on him is highly worrying and very unprofessional. Normal counsellors do not operate in the way he is (listen to the pps who have experienced abuse and what sort of therapy they received. A pp mentioned how can he possibly see your wife as much as he does. What about his other patients? Why can he see her regularly at short notice? He obviously doesn’t keep normal hours and if these are “emergency” sessions, the level of contact would suggest that so thing substantive needs to happen rather than just meeting in car parks).

Have you researched how csa effects adults? From what you’ve written, she experienced severe abuse for 18 years (what was the frequency? Daily? Weekly?). That level of abuse would have consequences. People who have been abused react to the world/people in certain ways and with recognisable characteristics (attachment issues, anger, violence, constantly seeking approval etc). Before the allegations were raised, what was your wife like? How did she interact with her family? Was there anything that made you think there was something “off”?

Have you seen the photographs of the birthday parties? Do you think she had birthday parties? Who said the photos were altered? If it came from him that shows you he is manipulating his wife rather than helping her.

Who gave your wife this man’s name? Can you contact to find out what they think of him? Don’t mention details, but ask some questions.

Jut because someone is a therapist, doesn’t mean they are a good person. He has made a lot of money from your wife and he may be one of these awful people who like being in a position of power with a vulnerable person. They get off on being needed and being looked up to. If he feeds of your wife’s need, he is going to have answers for everything. Couple sessions...not in her interest. Police involvement...not in her interest. There will be nothing that’s “in her interest” other than keeping her dependent on him.

The professional body said “normally”. That does not mean never. Have you asked them what there guidance is on revelations of abuse? If not, do so.

You need to look into counsellor/patient dependent relationships. Yes therapy can take years, but have you seen an improvement in the time your wife has been seeing this man? A real improvement?

Have you been in contact with her family? Do they know what is going on or why they have been dropped by your wife? There is a possibility that the abuse occurred, but with what you’ve said there would be corroboration somewhere. Was your wife the only one abused? Out of hundreds of people, no-one has ever mentioned this? No investigations? No other allegations?

This man is stealing your wife’s life. If she was abused, she needs treatment that works. If she wasn’t, he has broken her relationship with you and taken away her family relationships. That is not right.

How does she interact with your children and how old are they? They’re are also being effected by this and their relationship with her will suffer if this is allowed to continue. If everything is above board then John will happily answer some questions. If it’s not, he will block questions and not offer any answers.

Please start doing all you can to find out how to help your wife.

I’ve stayed for a few reasons
Firstly and fundamentally I still love my wife, and I hope the old her comes back soon. We married for a reason and that’s still true
I worry she is vulnerable and me leaving might make things worse for her and her health. She has not contact with her family (because of her memories) and has drifted away from a lot of her friends
I don’t want to be a weekend Disney dad and want to be there for my children properly. I fear separation could get messy

Why wouldn’t you get custody.

Purely on a logistical point

How would she be able to access her therapist whenever she liked if she has children around and having got rid of her family and friends who would she get to baby sit?

Or would she plan on taking the children along and they get their own therapy sessions.
Who knows what they will come up with.

I think you are in an extremely dangerous situation.

I think the easiest solution would be that your wife is having an affair, not necessarily with the therapist. He is just the cover story

The alternative is so much more complex and ultimately whilst you might want to save everyone, if your wife won’t see anybody else. Won’t try other methods. Won’t help herself, won’t call the police and there doesn’t seem to be an end to it all if her visits and calls are increasing. Then you can only save yourself and your children and put boundaries in place to keep your children safe from the mental toll of her disappearing off to talk to her therapist or meet him in a car park at whim.

I think you do need to do something.

When I went to therapy for my historic child abuse the very first thing out of his mouth was that he would have to report the person who abused me if other children were at risk, it was a legal duty he had.

To be honest, I've had several therapists now and discussed childhood sexual and none has ever said anything about reporting to the police or considering if other children might be at risk.

You need to get this out of your head where it is just spinning around and paralysing you - leaving your vulnerable DW exposed and your DCs with two emotionally preoccupied / unavailable parents.

This needs some sunlight.

Professional / expert intervention - say it out loud to a range of professionals and get the ball rolling. They will know what to do. It is not your responsibility and neither are you capable of fixing this v complex situation.

I understand that you are terrified of her fragility, vulnerability and volatility. Professionals would navigate that.

Options for your DW

Your GP
Adult SS
Rape crisis / CSA experts

Down the line for him:

Professional body
Police

Speak to each of them and get their take on it.

You need to take action. Are you more scared that she will erupt at you than you are of her falling deeper down this rabbit hole?

I understand your desire to support your wife emotionally, but that doesn't mean uncritical acceptance of anything she says. You've indicated that her "recovered memories" would have involved hundreds of people, and the idea that all the photos of her birthday parties were doctored or staged simply doesn't make any logical sense. You wouldn't agree with someone suffering from paranoid delusions that everything they say is true or live your life according to those delusions. Your situation seems analogous.

The therapist sounds unethical and dangerous in his manipulation of a vulnerable person. Your wife's dependence on him clearly goes far beyond transference. What a terrible situation. In your shoes, I would seek advice about how to help your wife as well as the avenues open to you to report the therapist (I know you already have tried the latter, but perhaps there are other pathways to explore).

@Sssloou makes several excellent suggestions.

We all understand your nervousness that taking action might alienate your wife but - leaving aside that she has gone NC with her family and lost contact with most of her friends - she is also already alienated from you and your son having been sucked into a world which revolves round her and her therapist to an extremely damaging extent.

He has manipulated her such that she simply sidesteps all suggestions to intervene in this very destructive situation - for example, a decent therapist should have no concerns about her seeking a second opinion; it would have been natural to support reporting matters to the police if the abuse is really of the extent and nature described and the perpetrators are still at large; an effective therapist would surely be creating some positive benefits with all this "work"; and a decent therapist wouldn't be blurring every last boundary in the book. He has also taught her to discount any evidence which disproves her memories.

In effect, he has trapped her with him and sealed all the exits and she is unable to defend herself from him.

Please try following at least some of Sssloou's suggestions. Try and overcome your natural politeness and reticence and be really firm with her. Reach out to professionals and agencies who may be able to assist in this process. If your wife remains unreachable, you might just need to take your son and leave her. Because surely you and he can't just continue to live at the centre of her storm. It's unfair on your son and unsustainable for you.

I think you do need to take action to protect your DW. This man is dangerous and he shouldn't be practising as a therapist. He's taking advantage of a very vulnerable woman, turning her against her family by filling her head with lies.

A therapist should never put ideas in a client's head like suggesting that family photos have been doctored. The whole point in therapy is to empower the client to process their own experiences and work out how to act. Because what abuse victims need is to be empowered to make the right decisions for themselves.

Your DW needs you to speak up for her. Yes, she's an adult, but she's clearly very vulnerable and her therapist is taking advantage.

I've just read the whole thread and I'm commenting as someone who is a qualified therapist (but not practicing currently) and who had lots of therapy myself too, including more than once a week.

I think it might actually help to reframe the situation in your mind and not think of John as a therapist. This sounds more like some kind of a cult and like he's emotionally and potentially financially abusive and controlling her.

Having more than one session per week over many years in itself is not strange or unethical at all, it's how many psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapists work - mainly because it allows the time and space to really work on the unconscious patterns that affect us all. It's not about uncovering memories though. It does create a dependence/attachment but for the purpose of working through earlier attachments. The main thing though is that the technique and approach is extremely boundaried. Sessions start and end at exactly the same time each week, contact in between is very minimal (mainly practical issues i.e. if the client needs to cancel a session). None of what you're describing sounds like that type of therapy at all.

The inconsistent/erratic arrangements around the sessions are a big red flag for me. There's simply no reason for a therapist to meet a client in random locations or have all this phone/text contact. It also doesn't benefit the therapist to arrange sessions at short notice in general - most are self-employed and see several clients and it just makes sense to know you're seeing X at 2:20pm, Y at 3:30pm, Z at 5pm every Monday etc. An occasional "emergency" session may occasionally take place but it should be an exception not the rule. Continuing to meet throughout the pandemic is another red flag. Think about it - at the height of lockdown, it really wouldn't have made any sense for a therapist to risk their own health and all the professional bodies were strongly recommending online (Zoom/Skype etc.) sessions only.

Whether he's a qualified therapist or not, this is not "therapy" by any definition. If you thought of it as a cult or something, maybe you would feel more inclined to act to protect your DW from it?

I'm also wondering if you know how she started seeing John in the first place? Was she referred by someone/an organisation, or did she just happen to find him? How soon did all these strange erratic arrangements start?