What to do when parent you are NC with, reaches out?

[Shefliesonherownwings]

I've posted about this a couple of times before but I need some more advice on this as my dad has been in touch and I don't know what to do next.

I'll try to be brief. I'm an only child and since I was a teen and could form my own opinions, dad and I have clashed. I find him to be controlling, suffocating, selfish, narcissitic, volatile, I could go on. I don't like the way he treats my mum or speaks to her and when I stand up to him/disagree it causes a major argument. We disagree on almost anything of any depth as I consider him racist, sexist, homophobic and so on. We have had numerous arguments and a couple of phases of not speaking but I always end up caving and going back for an easy life. However I used to dread having to see or speak to him because of how he is. He would say we've been very close, i would say we had a surface relationship only.

Last November I lost my DD to stillbirth. DH and I were and still are devestated. My dad acted appallingly, I think grief thief is the right phrase. At a time when everyone else was trying to make things better for us and support us, all he did was make things worse. He upset me hugely the day before DDs funeral and when I later told him how upset I was, he told me that all I ever do is blame him for everything. I didn't reply. A month or so later I received a very long email basically telling me how ungrateful I am, how I've made him ill, nearly caused him and my mum to split up and outlining all he's ever done for me. I didn't respond so we have been NC since December.

I've still been regularly speaking and seeing my mum but we barely mention him. I've told her I feel I am done with him as he's gone too far and I think she understands but she will never leave him, she's lived this way for 40 years. I don't want to lose her but it is hard navigating a relationship when she continued to dtay with him.

Today he sent me an email. He actually for once acknowledged he'd upset me and behaved badly and offered up a sort of apology without actually saying sorry. He said he was mostly to blame. He talked about how hard losing his grandchild was and he didn't know how to deal with it. He tells me he sent the first email by mistake, he was just putting some thoughts down and it was an accident. Much of the email is about how hard he has found things, how hard his life has been and so on. He says he doesn't expect a response but hopes I'll think a little kindlier of him now.

I should also say I am currently 31 weeks pregnant. Obviously this pregnancy has been and still is hugely nerve wracking and my anxiety is sky high. I know he knows I am pregnant, my mum told him when I had my 12 week scan. He has never acknowledged the pregnancy and still hasn't in this latest email.

I don't really know what to do and whether to respond. Part of me wants to reply and tell him all the things I am angry and hurt about and to tell him to stuff his apology and me, me, me crap and leave us alone. I have so many actual dreams at night where I lay into him and say all the things I've kept bottled up for so long. I would love to tell him how I really feel but would it achieve anything?

If we were to ever have any sort of relationship again it would never be the same as before. Dealing with just my mum has definitely been better for me but i know it's hard on her. DH is also very upset with him and wants nothing to do with him. He wouldn't allow dad in the house and thinks we should just continue to live life without him, we have more important things to think about. I agree but there is still a tiny part of me that feels bad and guilty and staying NC especially when this baby is here, even though life is better without him in it. There's still the question of how my mum would be able to visit and spend time with the baby and not him.

Sorry this was so long but I'm all over the place with it. Just wondering what others have done, if anything, in response to a NC parent reaching out? Any thoughts?

@Sssloou i do agree, im NC at the moment. And the distance has allowed me to look really clearly at how toxic the structure of my family is. I always thought "ah it is not So bad, mostly". But now, I can see how my own enmeshment allowed this crap to go on for decades.

Also, sad fact, for me, even hearing 3rd party from my golden child brother that m&d are "hurt too" has the power to make me feel so derailed by the injustice of that.

So i will keep going researching this. And keep going to psychotherapist. And hopefully one dsy these flawed parents of mine and their denials which have protected them at my expense will no longer exasperate me.

Cos right now, they are annoying me even though they havent responded to my whatsapp in 5 months! 😂

Im NC but they are still in my head.

Do you tell your psychotherapist that you've been researching family structures on yr own time!? Wdyt?!

I would not respond. Give yourself more thinking time.

If your father truely wanted to reconcile he would give you all the time you needed.

Unfortunately, I expect you will get more angry emails as he will feel he is now entitled to your attention as he 'apologised'.

I hope I'm wrong.

[quote TorkTorkBam]@WiserOlder I am interested in the triggering you mention. I am great at doing the LC. I am totally solid on how I should respond, what to do and not do, then actually make that real. I do it fine. Still, when there is a contact, like there was briefly a week ago due to a birthday, internally I am in a right old state of non-specific distress. I don't know if that makes sense.[/quote]
It makes sense to me. 💡🍷

after the parents of golden child and scapegoat die, scapegoat, if they are already aware of all the toxic patterns, will thrive, but golden children often have an identity crisis when they are 50+
This makes sense, presumably The golden child could also be ok if they could have enough insight into the situation to understand the dynamic etc. However the scapegoat and The golden child have been deliberately put into opposing positions, at loggerheads, it's difficult for them to climb out of that pit and reach a position of insight.

My experience of removing yourself from an enmeshed family system is that it is emotionally and physically painfully and exhausting.

The enmeshed family is like a weave so any drama/emotion is translated unfiltered to each person and the family system depends on the valency of the weave for its strength, stability and existence.

So pulling your own strand out is exhausting, complicated and painful. I imagine The enmeshment as skins merged together so getting out requires ripping off some skin that then needs to grow on its own.

Time and distance allow you to see the dynamics in the system - it’s v liberating and text book.

The next stage is to eventually turn away from being preoccupied with the system - stop looking out at it no matter how fascinating - look inside and closer to your own wounds that need attention. Your own behaviours and deficits that need addressing with the other RS and other parts of your life which will also have been stained and blighted. Look to your RS with your DCs, DH, emotionally healthy friends - build those back up (or prune them if they are problematic). You become a different person on the other side - surrounded by positive people and interactions and swerving the negative.

Have a look at the Pete Walker web site about how to manage the emotional flooding/flashbacks and triggers.

They shouldn’t be repressed or ignored - they should be seen as a part of the jigsaw - but they should dominate, consume or control your life - but they warrant the attention to process properly.

shouldn't dominate

Yes, and the scapegoat is much more likely to seek help and go to therapy.

My own brother is not a very defensive person, at work for example. He coukd take criticism at work im sure. But when it comes to me, he sees it all through their lens. So when they die, i will feel a bit sad. But in my later years ill be happy, feeling free. He will be blaming me for hastening their early deaths i dont doubt 😥

I have listened to that book on audible. Maybe i wasnt ready to take as much from it as i could now. I will go back to it again. My understanding of the interplay and the dynamics and my role in it all is better now.

It is probably a book that deserved being purchased in hard copy! But i found it easier to listen to it.

There are bits i wish i could have underlined in a paper copy though.

Anybody get on with the bessel van der kolk book?? I couldnt get on with that one. Maybe ill try again at some point, but i wasnt able for it last year.

skins merged together
Here it sounds as if you are visualising the enmeshed family unit as a kind of creature, perhaps we could say this is a clan mentality ....individual identities are subsumed for the benefit of the Clan, the head of the clan gets to make all the decisions, everyone else is just arms and legs who have to do as they are told.
(Apologies if I have mangled your metaphors!)

I think that is how it is viewed in the bowen theory.

It is totally enmeshed.

And it has been v painful for me to try and pull away.

Every time i do it though im a bit less enmeshed. I never want to go back to "normal".

Having gone through the torture of pulling apart merged skins, i do not have any goal to get back to normal. Omg. No. Id like things to be civil and respectful but even that is a high hope.

I feel I have unenmeshed a bit more this time than i did the last time they werent talking to me.

It has definitely helped being NC all summer. It has allowed me space to think.

@Heffalooomia

skins merged together Here it sounds as if you are visualising the enmeshed family unit as a kind of creature, perhaps we could say this is a clan mentality ....individual identities are subsumed for the benefit of the Clan, the head of the clan gets to make all the decisions, everyone else is just arms and legs who have to do as they are told. (Apologies if I have mangled your metaphors!)

In one of the clips i was listening to, i wasnt sure if the exile and the manager and the firefighter were actually different members of the family or just different roles that must have an outlet iyswim.

I think you know what you should do from reading your posts, you are just still hanging on to the image of a family you would like or dreamed of, instead of accepting the family and father you do have. He’s not going to change. His selfishness makes me sad for you. I’m sorry you lost a child, how heartbreaking. To have a parent behave like that when you have been through so much, must be very painful. From personal experience, let me say you are wasting an enormous amount of energy on this, these sorts of relationships do nothing but drain you. You can keep trying, but you’re not going to get a different Dad. This is it. He seems to bring you nothing but pain. I would kindly urge you to accept the situation for what it is, and then decide what you get out of it that would be worth the pain. Because his behaviour will be the same to your child. And the fact your DH feels the way he does, out of respect for him you ought to avoid giving your father too much of your energy. Sounds like you have great in-laws and that your time and energy is better spent there.

I have established good boundaries now with my DPs, but I know a lot of my anxiety related to them is due to me knowing that they feel no remorse for what they have done, and although they feel regret for the situation, they feel that they bear no responsibility and that the fall out is my fault. This underpins and triggers every interaction I have with them, and I’m not sure how to get through it. You really need to bear in mind that this could happen with you, and would it be worth it?

i wasnt sure if the exile and the manager and the firefighter were actually different members of the family or just different roles that must have an outlet iyswim
I think I see what you mean...those are all functions which need to be fulfilled if the unit is to operate such that it fulfills the agenda of the highest ranking person

Ultimately this man's behaviour is completely despicable, to attack you his own daughter, when you have been bereaved when you are in such pain, it's just horrifying how can he behave like this?
He must know at some level that his behaviour is abhorrent but he can't bear to face it so he tries to to blackmail and coerce everyone into acting as if he's a decent person.
He is contemptuous, imagine what his life would be like if he hadn't been able to crush his wife into submission, he would be wretched with nothing, he will do anything to avoid that fate, throw anyone under the bus.
Ultimately I think he is too damaged by his own unprocessed trauma to be anything other than what he is
(I seek to explain, not exonerate!)

The seed has been planted in your head that you know to protect your family you need to go NC - and I would say with both your parents. Your Mother has enabled your Fathers behaviour towards you and that is just as bad. I know it is really hard and plays with deep emotions but it will get better over time. From my own experience you still will get the odd curve ball thrown your way, but you just have to deal with those emotions, accept them and move on. Having your own child really brings home ones shitty childhood. You are lucky that you have your Husband and his Family. Take care and maybe think about talking all this through with a professional - the hardest thing I’ve ever done but so worth it.

Gosh, so many more replies. Thank you all for your insights. I hadn't realised there was so much informtion out there about this topic. Thank you to those who have posted about references and literature. When I feel stronger I will take a look. I'm sorry also for others who have had to deal with this.

I ended up going into hospital for monitoring yesterday. I am getting so paranoid about baby movements, that any slight change has me imagining the worst. I am now arranging to go in for weekly monitoring and weekly scans to help reassure me.

I have also just got off the phone with my mum. I know you are all right about her enabling him and not protecting me. For so long I viewed her as a victim, stuck in this controlling relationship and I felt sorry for her. I did what I could to protect her and stand up for her. I only really started to view her as enabling last year when I was pregnant with DD and I stood up to my dad about the way he spoke to her. He of course blew up at me and she then sided with him. She told me I was wrong for the way I had spoken to him. She later told me she was sorry she had said that but she had to, to keep the peace. I told her then that I felt she'd thrown me under the bus to save herself. She was sorry but nothing has actually changed.

Even now on the phone, she put him first. She rang to see how I was after yesterday and he was there in the background. She had to end the call suddenly to 'help' him with something and then called me back. I knew immediately this was his way of exerting control over her and showing me she was still 'his' as what she had to help him with was something he could easily do himself. But it showed me even more that she will just jump when he says 'how high'. She could have said wait a minute, I'll help you in a minute but she pushed me to one side again.

If it is possible I struggle even more with my relationship with her now. The thought of losing two parents is devestating and I do wonder if she and I can maintain a surface level realtionship. But I do see more and more now that I don't ever come first and I cannot imagine treating my child the same way. I love DH more than anything, but if it came to a choice between him and my child, there wouldn't even be a choice for me, my child comes first always.

The realisation that your parents aren't who or what you thought is a tough one.

I always thought I'd understand my parents once I had children. I thought I'd see the strains and stresses they were under and, whilst I wouldn't react in the abusive way they did, that would help me understand them more.

In fact I understand them even less and that threw me off kilter for a very long time.

Be kind to yourself. Take care.

I’m so sorry you lost your beautiful daughter. You’ve been through so much, your energy and attention is on you and your pregnancy and rightly so. Don’t let him railroad that. You don’t have to respond straight away or even at all. Think it through and maybe talk with someone outside the situation.

I have a difficult relationship with my mum. There’s two sides to her and the lovely side is there when I’m living my life the way she wants me to. When there’s anything she disagrees with she’s a different person. Hugely controlling and I would probably say manipulative. I promised my darling father on his death bed I would look after her and make sure she’s ok, but it’s not easy with how she is.

Best of luck for your pregnancy.

You are far too forgiving of your mum choosing him over you, again and again and again

Look, she chose to sacrifice you so she could have a quiet life with him. Standing up for you would have meant ending it with him and she chose to sacrifice the child for the man, that's her choice. Sympathy is not what she deserves

This really resonates for me. I have the kind of father you describe OP and like you I blamed my father totally for a long time and saw my mother as a victim. It has taken me a long time to revise this opinion and I'm now bloody angry at her too. She threw me under the bus to save herself and continues to do so. I have no time now for either of them.

Your mother is not in solidarity with you. It's awful. She should have put you first as a child and should be doing so now but she isn't so fuck her. It might take you a while to find your anger at her but I think you need to. She is not your ally.

with me not for me.

OP, I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds like there's so much going on, and your Dad's letter comes as an additional strain.

Reading your post, it sounds as though even if he can't yet 'see' and think about you, he is trying to understand himself better. He realises he was grieving too and that he couldn't show that grief in a way that appropriate or helpful. Perhaps he can't yet see how much the way he showed it directly distressed you.

I guess that's a first half-step.

He did say he didn't expect a response and that seems to be the one place where he's starting to see what your experience might have been like. Perhaps this is a good time to half take him at his word?
Something along the lines of: thank you for your letter and also for saying I didn't need to respond; I still feel really hurt; I'm also coping with bereavement and pregnancy. You're right: I'm not ready to respond yet and but it means a lot that you can recognise I might not be ready to do that. Keeping some distance at present is the best way of supporting and showing care for me. I will be in touch when I'm ready. Please don't contact me before then.

The thought of losing two parents is devestating

You are building your new family. You are breaking the cycle. You are making sure your children will never face this dilemma. If you keep them close it poisons everything.

Think of all that mental energy going on managing your parents that could be spent on building and enjoying your own family.

Failing to break the cycle is more devastating in the long run.

"Reading your post, it sounds as though even if he can't yet 'see' and think about you, he is trying to understand himself better."

If only that was the case but sadly it is really not. Narcissists have no empathy or insight. What he is doing here is called "hoovering" and this is something that so many narcissistic types do. The abusive person may home in on the target’s vulnerabilities (wanting to be accepted, loved, attractive, etc.) and try to hook that person back into another abuse cycle, solely for the benefit of soothing the abusive person’s ego.

Any response whatsoever, no matter how carefully worded, will be seized upon and used against the OP. This is why there should be NO response from the OP.

Good points. I realise reading this my dad let me down in my childhood and teens and now again and again and again and again just siding with my mum.