Dating men when you are and successful in your career... can anyone relate to this?

[Frevera]

I know I’m going to sound like a bit of dick here but I’m interested to know if anyone can relate or maybe it is just me and I’m approaching it all wrongly.

I’ve had nice relationships in the past and I have strong friendships with people from different backgrounds and so on. I’m not some judgemental bitch and I certainly don’t think I am ‘better’ than someone else because I have a decent job and generally ok financially.

But...I’ve found the older I am (35 now), the higher paid I am (65k) and the higher up in my job I get, the less men I seem to meet who are on my wavelength. I associate it with the job primarily because once these men know what I do they seem to either be intimidated or want a free ride. There’s no in between.

Of course I don’t discuss money with them and only disclose my job when asked. But it’s generally obvious what sort of pay I am on once you know the field.

Then there’s the intelligence part. I’m good at what I do - by no means brilliant in other areas of life! - but I’m passionate about it and I am quick/smart and on the ball because I have to be in work and that sort of comes across I guess in other areas of life. Outside of work I’m interested in the news and current affairs. I like reading. I also like a good night out drinking or going to gigs but I have this serious side where I do care if a partner can hold a decent conversation.

So far I’ve not found that and I’ve been dating a year or so.

Has anyone else found this? Or me being a deluded dick with no self awareness?!

I’m just really confused as to how anyone knows anyone’s salary.

A lawyer could be earning £35k or could be on £100k plus. Someone in marketing could be earning £28k or £80k plus.

The trades can be really well paid. How would you possibly know if the plumber you’re going on a date with earns £18k or £70k?

I know someone who is very senior in a consultancy but earns under the threshold to claim child benefit (ie £60k). Whereas my BIL works for another consultancy and is on 6 figures.

I have no idea how all these men who are “intimidated” by women have any real insight in to their salaries?

Or is it a job title thing they’re intimidated by?

@Frevera

I know I’m going to sound like a bit of dick here but I’m interested to know if anyone can relate or maybe it is just me and I’m approaching it all wrongly.

I’ve had nice relationships in the past and I have strong friendships with people from different backgrounds and so on. I’m not some judgemental bitch and I certainly don’t think I am ‘better’ than someone else because I have a decent job and generally ok financially.

But...I’ve found the older I am (35 now), the higher paid I am (65k) and the higher up in my job I get, the less men I seem to meet who are on my wavelength. I associate it with the job primarily because once these men know what I do they seem to either be intimidated or want a free ride. There’s no in between.

Of course I don’t discuss money with them and only disclose my job when asked. But it’s generally obvious what sort of pay I am on once you know the field.

Then there’s the intelligence part. I’m good at what I do - by no means brilliant in other areas of life! - but I’m passionate about it and I am quick/smart and on the ball because I have to be in work and that sort of comes across I guess in other areas of life. Outside of work I’m interested in the news and current affairs. I like reading. I also like a good night out drinking or going to gigs but I have this serious side where I do care if a partner can hold a decent conversation.

So far I’ve not found that and I’ve been dating a year or so.

Has anyone else found this? Or me being a deluded dick with no self awareness?!

Just a thought but you've not stated what you want from a relationship . Is it a long term partner to live with / kids / all of the above. I think at your age given you have no children (or at least I assume thats the case) and givem your career you are quite the catch. I suspect a lot of men you would ideally like are taken or in some kind of post separation /divorce compromise (perhaps such as me). For a lot of men even in this day and age I think that initial 'she may earn more / be smarter than me' part may take a bit of processing. I personally would get past it quickly as it wouldn't be that big a thing or discrepancy but I suspect a lot of men would be earning half you do (if that).

shirley I think it’s the job title and the assumption that it’s well paid. Regardless of whether 65k is considered a lot or a little, from experience many men are either earning less or earning more but I still have potential to out earn them.

I’ve fever never discussed my salary but the assumptions are there and usually said in jest but clearly have been considered to even joke about it.

When I say intimidated, they will comment that ‘will I make the cut with you being a high flyer’ or ‘you sound like you don’t need a man’ ... lots of laughter etc. There’s been plenty more examples. Intimidated perhaps isn’t the exact right word. Maybe ‘uncomfortable’ is a better fitting one.

I also do not discuss my job - it’s a question that is asked as standard!

There's loads of men that find successful women (in all its meanings) attractive! What do you look for in a man? If I were you I would focus on wanting someone who is equally committed in succeeding in a career, and finding what he does interesting.
Do you live in a large city/work in a large city? More likely to find someone career driven then from my experience.

But if the OP is looking for a professional, intellectual man 30+ not intimidated by a woman earning 65k then yes, 65k will not be a lot to many (not all or most) of the particular men in that category.

On what do you base this?

The kinds of comments you mention them making about "not needing a man" 😯. Urghh... like their only function is to provide in a manly way! You're going to need someone confident in what he can offer and who isn't used to just being afforded worth because he has a penis!

You also mention you do care if a man can hold a decent conversation.

I couldn't agree with you more - there's nothing more sole destroying than trying to have a conversation with someone who can't string a sentence together and is simply plain boring. Hence the expression 'bored to death.'

You are definitely dating the wrong men OP. You need someone who is confident in themselves regardless of their partner's job or earnings. They do exist. You perhaps are unconsciously or consciously sending out the wrong signals.

I would add that if a person you are dating has their own passions or are committed to their career then they are less likely to be phased by your success. Certainly my experience and I was earning a lot more than you at an equivalent age.

Are there no available men in your profession OP? Lots of my co-professionals marry each other; having said that they do seem to get together at Univ.

What they actually want is a woman who is just independent, intelligent and ambitious enough to impress the man's friends - but just less enough of each compared to him that he can feel slightly superior to her every day.

This is my ex-husband exactly, described to a T.

35 is a tricky age I guess. Although DP is 34 and is nothing like that so there is hope!

I would say whoever describes themselves as wanting someone "that can challenge him" or who only dates "intelligent" women is a twat, careful of men who say that on their profiles because it all implies they think most women are a bit dim.

The dating pool of suitable men for you is small (best to have met him at uni where the pool is biggest) and even smaller now that you are 35. You'd want someone one who is older and established in his career as he is more likely to be on par with you. But you may only find him in the second hand market.

Are you restricting yourself to just single childfree men? You may have to widen your net to include men who are single after a divorce, who may very well have dcs.

There doesn’t seem to be a lack of men available, just that they all seem to have this attitude.

I’ve dated within the profession and in other professions, maybe just not met the right person but they come with their own egos and competitive in general which I find exhausting! It’s like there is no happy medium.

I haven’t dated men specifically without children, though again I would say only 5 percent of people I see online within the age range I search (32 to 42) have them. Maybe it’s the area I am in which is city based, or maybe there’s some fibbing on profiles!

Top tip is never tell people how well off you are or how high up at work etc. Just change subject back to them if they start with awkward questions and always go to a date in a cab or bus etc instead of turning up in a flash car with a personal plate .

How is that a top tip? How far into the relationship do I get before I tell them I'm an investment banker who travels by bus? Surely if you spring it on them later you may face all these assumptions when you actually like them?
All these people who say you are looking in the wrong place, where do you suggest to look especially now that WFH is standard for lots of desk jobs?

@Frevera I’m 35, a doctor and have found similar. Over the past 5 years of being single, I live in London, it has gotten worse and it ends up being pretty soul destroying so I completely understand it.

A few of the comments on here have been low level bitchy - can’t women support each other rather than “oh 65k isn’t that much”. I earn similar and proud that I am financially independent because it matters to me but then again, I’m struggling to afford to buy in London so who knows anymore!

I totally appreciate it. Where do the single, mid 30s/early 40s professional (non twatish) men date?!

Help!

@Frevera

shirley I think it’s the job title and the assumption that it’s well paid. Regardless of whether 65k is considered a lot or a little, from experience many men are either earning less or earning more but I still have potential to out earn them.

I’ve fever never discussed my salary but the assumptions are there and usually said in jest but clearly have been considered to even joke about it.

When I say intimidated, they will comment that ‘will I make the cut with you being a high flyer’ or ‘you sound like you don’t need a man’ ... lots of laughter etc. There’s been plenty more examples. Intimidated perhaps isn’t the exact right word. Maybe ‘uncomfortable’ is a better fitting one.

I also do not discuss my job - it’s a question that is asked as standard!

‘will I make the cut with you being a high flyer’ or ‘you sound like you don’t need a man’ ... lots of laughter etc.

If I were in your position and a man said that on a nice evening out, it would make me roll my eyes so much. Total cold water on the date.

I think I'd be annoyed actually. Either responding with 'If my job here is to alleviate your insecurities, it's not going you work between us because it's not going to happen', or 'if you want a woman that needs a man, I think you should go to some deprived areas and pick a damsel'.

Maybe I wouldn't be that blunt, who knows, but they're such lame things to say to a successful, confident woman.

I would say whoever describes themselves as wanting someone "that can challenge him" or who only dates "intelligent" women is a twat, careful of men who say that on their profiles because it all implies they think most women are a bit dim.

That's interesting. Do you think women view intelligent men differently then?

I only ask because I do want an intelligent man. I do appreciate different intelligences and have many friends who aren't 'intellectually intelligent' but, when it comes to a partner, I do want a man who is similarly intelligent to me.

As for men thinking most women are a bit dim, as I said before, most people fall into the 'average intelligence' category, and to those people who are 'highly intelligent', a lot of people seem 'a bit dim'.

Whether its intelligence, background, physical appearance, personality or whatever, people are allowed to have preferences and discriminate. Equal opportunities does not apply in personal relationships. However, according to many threads on MN, personality seems to be the only acceptable filter.

Having preferences and filters does not make someone a 'twat'.

@Aliceinwanderland

You are definitely dating the wrong men OP. You need someone who is confident in themselves regardless of their partner's job or earnings. They do exist. You perhaps are unconsciously or consciously sending out the wrong signals.

Or......a lot of men have egos that need stroking, or on a less cynical note, feeling needed and useful is important for their self esteem. Since this has traditionally been done with earning power, they would struggle to see how they could be useful to someone who earns 65k.

Men might also see other males are people they compete with on a daily basis, but they don't want to feel they're competition with their partner too. Home is where they come to rest after being in a tough environment all day long, and I'm afraid that a high earning woman that can discuss politics might not fit that image. Some competitive people are just like that. I doubt it's about any vibes the OP is giving out. It's something that's independent to her.

@Frevera I'd like you to look at the big 5 personality trait model. There are certain patterns that emerge when it comes to certain high earning professions, and it might explain your experience with dating certain professionals so far. Have a look at conscientiousness, agreeableness, and neuroticism. If someone is very high in conscientiousness, and fairly low in agreableness generally, they might work in certain types of law or finance. I think the traits that can make them so successful at work can have an effect on relationships too as they can be very competitive, judgemental and hard on their partner. It would be interesting to see if you could relate to some of it.

Look I apologize for being "low level bitchy", but have you considered maybe these men are being a bit sarcastic? From your posts it sounds to me you are very proud of your accomplishments, so perhaps you just come across that way and quite smug to men who you date as well. Just a thought if you want to take on board, maybe talk about hobbies and general stuff rather than salaries and job titles on the first couple of dates, and again congrats on your achievements.

@

Apologies

OP can you describe (a) what you are looking for in a partner and (b) where you are looking?

@LateSummerGarden I don't think most men think women are dim, I think only some of them do, I was just saying that the way they describe themselves on their profiles can ring alarm bells. And, in my onlinde dating experience, men who put strong messages such as wanting only intelligent women etc ended up being very condescending in real life and making snide comments exactly as the OP describes.

There are plenty of great men out there, OP, you just need to sift through all the crap ones first!