My Mother thinks my hurt is an act of aggression against her

[WiserOlder]

My parents identify with being very good people and this is mostly true but they have never allowed me to feel what I feel and this is usually manageable for me/them unless they do thoughtlessly do something that hurts me and I express that, and then, wow, the depth of their blind spot is so deep and so dark that I'm wondering, will i have to go NC with parents who tried their best?

Since April there's been no communication between me and my parents, ie, no response to my very clear text message telling them what it was that they said that was so hurtful. No verbal response but a wounded angry reaction iyswim.

My kids go to their house and over hear things about how ''silly'' their mother is. I can't stop them going though. They're teens.

My brother the golden child was putting pressure on me to fix things which basically means ignore the fact that 1) they hurt me, and 2) buy into the script that my being hurt is an act of aggression I am perpetrating against them..

After whatsapping my brother for three hours yesterday to defend myself (for being HURT! OMG) he finally, finally got it (I think? Partially?) he understood my perspective that they had hurt me and that I felt I had done nothing to them, but he still thinks I ''hurt them too''. Hurt by what!?! I don't know. He also told me that I may have burnt my bridges with them. He retracted that a bit when I said ''what? have they no empathy at all, no insight at all?''.

My parents are the type of people who go to church, walk their dogs, smile at their neighbours, cook lasagnes for sick people, they were supportive to me when I left my abusive x, and they have been extremely generous to me and I'm grateful for it, but they haven't bought the right to control me or hurt me, which I think my brother and my parents sub consciously think. It's so unhealthy. I can't be a part of this bullshit anymore. I never wanted this.

There have been so many occasions where I've been hurt and it always ends in me giving in and saying sorry

They may be old and their health may not be great but I just feel like I cannot do it right now. I am not saying sorry for being hurt.

I will be the bad sheep, the bad scapegoat, I will be squaring up for a whole load of new labels if I can't just ''fix this'' ie, apologise. I will be ''silly'' and I will be ''unhappy''. That is the new label emerging my brother is worried that I am unhappy. I'm not at all unhappy. I'm positive and enthusiastic about my future. I'm not plagued by the self-doubt and poor sense of self that once took the joy out of everything. I know I will be perfectly OK without them. But the new narrative will annoy the fuck out of me.

And, ironically, it's linked to my new self-assured self that that I just cannot accept this bullshit anymore. But they only live around the corner.

I wish I could afford to move.

I hope your dc know the truth. Or allowing them to hold dgps in high esteem will also be damaging when they eventually work them out...

My parents identify with being very good people

That sentence made me smile OP. Man have I met a lot of people in my life who also identify with being good people whilst underneath being absolutely massive arseholes.

I had an abusive childhood in many ways. It left me with deep scars that I have carried through to adult life. I do understand how this can impact your life, but and I say this gently, I think you need to be more specific about what the real cause of your anger is. From the outside its difficult to translate being called paranoid in your childhood to being so psychologically damaging to you in later life.

If your dad was in a mental health facility it must have been extremely stressful to your mum. Presumably she held the family together and worked whilst this was happening? it's easy to get trapped in a childhood perspective of injustice rather than revisit the situation through the eyes of an adult. Her waving of her hand maybe communicating her frustration that you didn't know all that went on during that period. She is human too and I must admit I do feel for her a bit if she's held the family together and been in your own words a decent parent for the most part.

We are all human at the end of the day. We are all fallible and screwed up in our own ways just trying to get through life the best we can. Through my own experiences I've come to realise that very very rarely do you get closure or acknowledgement from your parents. You have to find it within yourself.

You need to decide what it would take to move past this yourself. If you decide you can't then remove yourself from the situation and leave the rest of them to have their own opinions. But whatever you do, don't let it fester on and cause long term tension for all.

I'm sure what I've written won't be agreed with but as a survivor of abuse myself, I strongly feel there needs to be a lot more pragmatic thinking mostly to stop yourself from years of tying yourself up in knots. I heard a great saying about bitterness, its like drinking a cup of poison yourself and expecting the other person to suffer, it doesn't work.

Sorry you're feeling hurt OP.
As others have said, this does sound like an overreaction on your part- and I say that with sympathy. I too have a designated "role" in my family that isn't very complimentary to me- but it's not worth drama really.
The important bit is to be able to say you are hurt- why do you need them to react to that? I feel like you're chasing a reaction you're never going to get from them, and punishing them for having an opinion (essentially what you're accusing them of doing.)
Also, beware some therapists. Mine saw pound signs when I started talking about my father. It was all about blame and not about coming to terms- it was also about trying to get a particular reaction from him, and not examining how to get me to process things.

Identifying with being very good people sounds like a euphemism for 'maintaining their facade/public image at all and any cost'
Anything which might contradict, damage or impinge upon the public persona is ignored /gaslit away.
they will do everything they can to maintain the status quo that positions them as the highest ranking people, if you do not defer to them you will be punished.
It's bulshit and it's batshit

@Backtoschoolnotsoonenough

I hope your dc know the truth. Or allowing them to hold dgps in high esteem will also be damaging when they eventually work them out...

My daughter gets it. She knows that they simultaneously did not respond to my text saying why I was hurt and yet also blame me for the breakdown in communication. She gets it, but I have not put any pressure on her to not visit my parents so she has been going over once a fortnight roughly.

Gosh OP, i really feel for you. I could have written most of your first post. As you can see on here, some people get it, and some people dont. This is not 'drama', this is not a case of 'agree to disagree'. Your feelings have been dismissed, minimised and ignored, repeatedly, by your family. You're being asked to shut up and play nicely, for the sake of everyone else ,yet again. You're not having it, and good for you. Its bloody gruelling though, and exhausting, and heartbreaking. I have often felt like I was battling with my family for my right to even exist!

Really good to read that you're in therapy, and great to hear that it's going positively. Being validated by my therapist was so powerful, and intensely healing. Therapy can intensify feelings of rage, of injustice, of hurt, and these are essential for setting boundaries and standing up for yourself. Please do keep at it if you can. I'm about 10 years on from my first therapy session (spent 7 years in therapy) and in such a different place where my family is concerned. Please reflect on the strength and bravery it takes to stand up to people like this, and be proud of yourself for not caving in and doing what they expect of you

It's an odd word to use in a general sense about someone who is not having MH issues. To my mind it's the kind of word that is related to something, as in "you're paranoid about ......"
So I'm wondering if there was something specific that they though you were paranoid about. Have you asked them over the years? Was it maybe your thoughts about your brother being the golden child? Was it their way of denying they had a favourite?
There comes a time where it can be healthier to let go of the things that parents did wrong growing up. I'm not advising you to say sorry, but it also takes 2 to be silent, so if you were to 'matter of fact' contact them like nothing had happened and put it to bed, would they still not respond?

I understand. My much older sibling has narc and histrionic tendencies. My mother is scared of her, so I get used as a sacrificial lamb to appease her. Not only that, but my mother cannot cope with me having emotions, and blithely tells me I wasn't upset when crying, which has done my self esteem wonders over the years.

Most recently, I'd finally been able to take my baby to meet my mother, only to have my sister turn up every day, and even moan when I was late getting back to the house having gone to meet up with friends who live there. It caused me no end of stress, and my mother saw me in tears twice.

The second time I decided I was going to ring her and ask her not to come over on the last day I was there for various reasons. My mum stopped me, telling me she'd be upset and there'd be consequences. So fine for me to get upset by her actions, but we can't have the opposite. It made me realise that not only does she not accept me being upset, she also thinks I can be repeatedly treated thus and I'll just go back for more. There won't be consequences of me being hurt.

Then she wonders why I haven't Skyped her for weeks with the baby.

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic childhood by Sue Palmer

Thank you to everybody who gets it. That's no disrespect to the people who've posted thinking that I'm being dramatic, or that maybe I was paranoid, or that I am intense! I know that if you haven't been through this and had your every feeling invalidated, it must seem hard to understand. Luckily now I can just skim over the posts from people who are so lucky that they don't get it.
and to everybody who gets it, thank you for ......... being in the same boat :-/

@TimeIhadaNameChange I bet your sister is allowed to have feelings though :-/

I think your last post was a little dismissive OP. Some of us do get it and have had horrific childhoods but are also offering a different viewpoint that might help you to avoid escalating the situation and cause yourself more distress. It's easy to listen to people who encourage anger and
blame as both are an easier emotions to process.

It's lazy psychobabble to label people as 'narcs' these days, lazy because it shuts down important processing of our own reactions and behaviour and babble because its easy to wrap up and market in countless self help books.

I think this is just so intense.
also (sorry to be a bit harsh) just a little bit self absorbed. Although I suppose it all depends on your feelings at the end of the day - as we are not you. However - purely from an outsiders perspective, this all sounds really dramatic and almost like you are looking for reasons for a row.

If they were awful parents who made you miserable- then just continue to stay away. However this doesn't sound like the case at all. It sounds like they are basically good loving parents.. and that now you are in this situation, you want a way out.

I would honestly decide what you want and what you can cope with. Based on the fact that with what you have said , they will not be apologetic to you . Because they don't (or won't) understand.

It will have to be you saying 'sorry' for a quiet life and restoration of harmony...

Remember Parents don't live forever. So that's your decision. Stick to your guns and maybe cut them from your life. OR

Say sorry for something you feel you had the right to say .. despite it upsetting them .. and move on.

It does all sound like you have waaaay to much time on your hands though.. and perhaps need to cut back on the naval gazing a bit.

I think your last post was a little dismissive OP. Some of us do get it and have had horrific childhoods but are also offering a different viewpoint that might help you to avoid escalating the situation and cause yourself more distress. It's easy to listen to people who encourage anger and
blame as both are an easier emotions to process.
This is so so true. I found it in my times of anger- there were people who would justify my rage and unhappiness, spurring me on to yet more- and those who encouraged me to think about what I was actually getting from that anger, if it was really making me feel better. I labelled those as people who "didn't get it" or "hadn't been there", but more often than not, they'd been through much worse.

I guess we all look for people who justify our actions and feelings, because it's easier. It feels odd to me that you're posting about your feelings being dismissed- and yet you dismiss the opinion of everyone who sees things in a different way to you.

Honestly I think you do need to consider whether you need to apologise as well. Just because you feel justified in being hurt - and it sounds like you were justified - doesn't mean that you dealt with it in a constructive way, and you've probably hurt your parents too. Choosing to essentially pick a fight over a WhatsApp message is not mature and does not give the opportunity for dialogue, and I'm sure your parents are feeling a bit blindsided by this coming out of the blue (to them) without the opportunity to discuss it - you just seem to expect an apology without any dialogue. My sister has the habit of contacting me out of the blue on WhatsApp saying she's deeply hurt by something random I've done. Don't get me wrong, I always apologise - but she absolutely refuses to see that often she's not behaved well either,or to apologise for what she's done wrong, or that raising issues like that on WhatsApp is not a constructive way to communicate, and it's a very destructive pattern of behaviour. You would be better off actually engaging your parents on this, asking questions like "why do you always infer I'm paranoid? I don't see it that way, and it upsets me when you do it" rather than a random WhatsApp telling them they're bad people and demanding an apology and withholding contact until they comply (again... That's likely to be how they see this).

I'm in the same position with my dad OP. Its so difficult isn't it? My dad can be brilliant when shit hits the fan. He steps up and does what needs to be done. But like you just because he did that does not mean he can verbally abuse me or control me and how I lift my life. My sister is the golden child and while she unserstands how they can be, she doesnt get involved. Id imagine because she doesny want it shoved on her. It came to a head for me last wednesday when he made me cry again. No reason just me wanting to get out of poverty by retraining in a field similar to the one I'm in, but much better pay. It will be difficult in who i'll be dealing with bit its my passion. Like everything with me he tore it down verbally, tore me down for wanting to do it, sneered about it and when i lost my rag, backed off acting all calm and bemused. Told me in front of my son that i need to see a doctor because something isnt right with me. It still hurts hugely writing it but after years and years of this, the scales fell from my eyes and i saw what he was doing. Provoking me into responding so he can minipulate it so I'm the crazy one. Its something subtle my ex used to do as well. However i also saw what my son was seeing. Mummy losing it, grandad calm and telling mummy shes not right. Being three hes impressionable and i was terrified DF would minipulate my relationship with my son. DS looks up to his grandad hugely so its behaviour he would copy. As such as I have no advice but just wanted to tell you where I am just so you know you are not alone. Its painful, but as I've read on here if abusive people were always abusive they couldnt abuse anyone. Thats why they need to be nice. Also if they were capavle of self insight and reflection they wouldnt do what they do.

So huge congrats on putting bounderies in place. Keep it up. You are doing the right even though i understand how confusing and hurtful it is now

Oh that is awful, you poor thing. Yes, that provoking you to within an inch of insanity and then remaining calm in the face of the distress they caused is really abusive.

I know it's hard but so that your son doesn't start to buy in to their narrative as he gets older, don't discuss it with them. I fell in to this trap too, I was permanently on trial trying to prove I had the right to my own decisions/feelings/thoughts. I shouldn't have defended it all to them. I should have just shrugged. But it is very hard when you're hardwired to think that you owe it to them to do what they decide is the ''sensible'' thing.

Talking about boundaries, my parents were appalling, they used to let themselves in to my house with a key they had (From when my kids were younger and went to their house). My mum left things on my bed once. Not in the hall or in the kitchen table, but she walked upstairs and left things on my bed. Because I'd been raised not to have boundaries, I did not notice a lot of the time when they eroded them, but that one struck me as an overstepped boundary and I told them so, cue wounded martyred feelings for weeeeeeeks

@Whiskeylover45 interesting that your Dad can be brilliant. He enjoys the identity he gets from ''rescuing'' you when you really need help, but when you're on a more secure footing with options as you are now, ie, deciding between two options for YOUR future, it frustrates him that he can't control your decision! Not my area of expertise but the ''rescuer'' can be a very controlling role from what I've read, so you have all of my sympathies.

My parents were both very good to me as well, when I needed help, but the same, when it got to the point where the immediate crisis was over and I could make some decisions about what came next, they got angry if I didn't make the choices they considered best

Surely it's what you decide is ok as a family though- did you tell them not to use the key and not to go upstairs. These things would be fine in my family, in fact, my mum lets herself in and cleans! I love it. The whole point is that it depends on the type of relationship you have- these things aren't wrong or boundary destroying unless you stated they were and they ignored you.

They do sound difficult, but I honestly couldn't be bothered with long Whatsapp messages and dialogue over this. Families are stressful and I think it's better to just cut down contact with them if they don't listen/stress you out, and tell your brother to mind his own (this will take 5 min, not 3 hours) and then do it. Otherwise it all becomes very stressful and intense and you might as well have seen them for all the stress and upset it is causing you. They will not see your point of view, best to move aside in a kind but firm way if you don't want to have much contact with them.

Sorry to the people who feel I dismissed their input.

But to try and put this politely, there is a family dynamic here that you're not getting. Also one poster clearly hadn't even properly read the thread, which is fine, it's not her job! SHe's not obliged to read this thread.

I can recognize so much of my own family in your OP. I think I reached a point where I just physically could not force myself to appease them any more.

I don't think you need to do anything. (Apart maybe from telling your brother to go boil his head!). When you have some distance from having to deal with it and you have had time to work through it a bit more with your therapist, then you will probably develop more of a feeling about how you want to proceed. My feeling is that this one incident is all rolled up into a ball with every other time you have been dismissed or ridiculed and it's all too powerful to deal with at once. The good news is that you don't need to! The only exception for me would be if they step up the criticism of you in front of your children- even teens can be told not to go and visit, and I would do exactly that if necessary.

This is a lot of "stuff" for you to work through. Go easy on yourself and don't try to do it all at once.

It's all very well to suggest that OP consider how her anger is serving her, but feelings are not just something you can decide not to have. Her anger is real, and her hurt is real. Shes at an early stage of therapy, and it sounds like she has just recently started to process feelings that she has had for years. Theres no fast forwarding through that stage, or 'choosing' not to feel those feelings. This is not a disagreement with her family that she can just let go and move on from. It sounds intense and dramatic because it IS intense and dramatic. Being dismissed and treated like an inconvenience by your family for years is bloody hurtful and painful

I am listening to this Alan Robarge clip. Listen to it if you get it, and please listen to it if you don't get it.

It is just so spot on.

''you are going to be denied an authentic emotional connection and yet summonsed to stay in relationship''

@wiserolder that is exactly it. Youve articulated it better than I could do lol. But then I'm coming round to the idea that my dad has always been like this, and accepting there is very little i can do. Like you i was raised without bounderies and I had a few absuive relationships myself. I think boundaries are difficult to maintain after decades of not having them, but everyone has to start somewhere. I am pleased to read you are managing this with the help of your therepist, and from.your posts you sound really strong and I have no doubt you can do this for yourself. I just want you to know your doing a fab job handling things on your own. I think in my situation its best to go low contact with DF and keep things superficial and go from there, tweaking things as needed. Have you read the stately homes thread? I've found it very helpful and informative, and very supportive to what adult children go through upon realising the abuse.

You may also find Darlene Ouimet's writings helpful:-

emergingfrombroken.com/the-day-i-got-tired-of-being-the-last-person-that-mattered/