Where to go from here regarding my Son's mum?

[malgrat78]

I am back once again asking for your advice & guidance.

As some of you will be aware I have been posting on Mumsnet asking for advice for some time now regarding my now 13 year old Son & the difficult situation he has been in regarding his mother. She started a relationship in the first half of last year with a drug addict & she moved him in. My Son felt very uncomfortable there & I also received a call from Social Services regarding concerns for his welfare as well as concerns from his mum's neighbours & family. At that point my Son was staying with me 2 nights per week & due to my concerns & the wishes of my Son I eventually moved him in with me full time. After this happened I heard all sorts of things about his mum begging, staling, selling things etc. All my sons stuff was sold including some of his beloved PS4 games. The guy even sold his own dog. It was clear that they were both in some form of addiction which i suspect was Heroin & crack cocaine as my son's mum admitted that her boyfriend was on a methadone treatment plan which I did eventually learn he quit.

My sons mum would phone him all the time with horrendous guilt trips & emotional blackmail tactics to try & get him to go back. I offered her meditation which she refused & eventually my Son decided to block her number which I allowed after we discussed it at length.

I am in contact with her older Daughter, my step daughter who a few months ago asked if her mum could write a letter to my Son. I asked my son if he wanted any contact from his mum & he still maintained no so I relayed this to his big sister. His mum then managed to leave a voice mail on my sons phone some how & it was very emotional but at the same time manipulative. With my sons agreement I put a pin on his voicemail so that I could listen to his voicemails but he couldn't. Since then she had not left any voice messages.

I have had contact with a counselling service who suspended all meetings due to Covid but they are hoping to recommence very soon.

Last week a major development has happened. For what ever reason my sons mum has left her home city & moved 80 miles away to apparently live with her elderly mother. His mum has given up everything, the brand new 2 bed house she recently moved into, household items etc. I am not sure of the reason but I know there were people in the area not very happy with her & her boyfriend due to stealing. The now ex boyfriend appears to have a new girlfriend. So, things are looking up with respect to my sons mum getting away from this guy.

Last week my step daughter again asked if my sons mum could write to him. She said she had spoken with her mum who appears oblivious to the damage she has done & is full of self pity. I said she can write a letter but I would prefer it to go to her daughter first so I can at least read it before I decide what to do.

Today my sons grandma has messaged me telling me that his mum is now living down there & she is all sorted & something had to be done to get her away from the guy. She said his mum has written my son a letter it's not much nothing nasty just saying she is sorry for how she treated him. She said she is sending it to my address as she doesn't want to mess about sending it all over the place & so I can read it. She finished the message off with "please accept the note you probably wont let him read it he's been through a lot but everyone makes mistakes, don't they" She does say that his mum does know he wont ever live with her again & it will take time. I just replied saying I hope she does well & I will talk to the counsellor about the letter before I let him read it. She replied saying that its not a letter just a note & she has explained to her daughter what she should expect.

I am in a position now that I am unsure what to do. I have to be mindful that although his mum is over there it's only been a week & if she was on class A drugs which I highly suspect she was then there's a good chance her addiction is going to creep back up on her if she isn't getting any help. Do I tell my son his mum has split up with the boyfriend & moved away? Will this further his abandonment issues that he is probably feeling. Do I let him read this letter / note, however this will depend on the content when I read it. It's very worrying that a woman of 51 years of age let herself get into this position in the first place & has had to give up everything but her own mother appears to believe it was just a mistake & the main reason was the ex boyfriend. I am concerned that any contact with his mum is going to be tinged with self pity, emotional blackmail etc that may effect my son or push him to make decisions based on how his mum is trying to make him feel.

I would absolutely love for my son to have a relationship with his mother again but it has to be an healthy one & I don't think this would be the case at the moment as she appears not to be able to accept any responsibility & I believe she needs to concentrate on her own mental health.

Could I please have any suggestions on how to proceed? Should I wait for the counselling session or sit him down now & explain the situation? He is a very mature intelligent young man who is firm in his decisions but he is only 13 at the end of the day. He talks about his mum now & again but is always saying that he wants nothing to do with her which I can understand. I make sure to explain to him that none of this is his fault & his mum is not in a good place but it's not his making.

I look forward to your replies & thanks to everyone who has helped so far as I do not have many people that I can ask for advice.

Sorry for all the auto correct errors

Your son has told you he doesn't want to hear about her. So I would have one last conversation with him and say that you will not be mentioning her again unless he asks you for information. This puts him in control and will stop him being blindsided by her,or mention of her. You are doing a great job and this will also take the pressure off you. Put any notes etc in a box and he can come to you when he is ready. Tell grandma and mum that this is the situation and then drop the rope. 💐

@lyralalala

Good luck

Thank you for your advice it's exactly what I needed to hear! Everything you said I agree with and think I just needed confirming as I was starting to feel a little uncertain again.

I'm going to proceed as I first intended which was to do as my son as requested and not what his mum or grandma wants.

You have hit the nail on the head with them believing she needs her son around to get back on track. This is exactly what they believe and I'm not going to allow my son to be part of that dysfunctionality. My replies will continue to be short and straight to the point making sure they know I'm in charge here. Thanks again 😊

@ChickensMightFly

You need to be done heated about her. She is reaping what she sowed and the one person here for whom they're is still a glimmer of hope it's your son. Surround him with strength and a wall which she cannot breach. He couldn't be clearer about what he needs and that is probably only because he trusts you. Keep his trust, believe him, stop asking him. Tell him he can come to you to let you know when he's ready and leave it at that. It will doubtless be a relief for him, and you. Simple is best here. Stop dancing when she tried to play her tune sadly all the sympathy and understanding in the world doesn't mean he should make space for her in his life or his head. Tell her no contact will even be considered until she is on step xyz of recovery programme as you are busy trying to help him heal from the damage already done. Form your tone up, I suspect she can sense your hesitation and that will give her false hope.

Thank you for this! I'm going to be stick to my guns now. I could feel myself swaying a bit mainly because things have been quiet for months until now and bang I'm getting his big sister, grandma and now mother trying to tell me what they think I should do.

I was straight to the point yesterday with his mum and I didn't answer her last question as to whether I had told him she's been in touch as it was late. I'm prepared today and I've got my replies ready which will be none negotiable and straight to the point. He starts school Wednesday, no way am I adding to that pressure just because his mum thinks she needs him to get better.

@chilling19

Your son has told you he doesn't want to hear about her. So I would have one last conversation with him and say that you will not be mentioning her again unless he asks you for information. This puts him in control and will stop him being blindsided by her,or mention of her. You are doing a great job and this will also take the pressure off you. Put any notes etc in a box and he can come to you when he is ready. Tell grandma and mum that this is the situation and then drop the rope. 💐

Thank you for this and again some great advice! My minds made up now and I know how I'm going to proceed which is basically honor my son's wishes and be his shield. He is currently doing so well and he's happy. That should be an indication that I'm doing the right thing and doing anything other than what he wishes and has requested may cause him some real upset.

Thank you for your advice it's exactly what I needed to hear! Everything you said I agree with and think I just needed confirming as I was starting to feel a little uncertain again.

I'm going to proceed as I first intended which was to do as my son as requested and not what his mum or grandma wants.

You have hit the nail on the head with them believing she needs her son around to get back on track. This is exactly what they believe and I'm not going to allow my son to be part of that dysfunctionality. My replies will continue to be short and straight to the point making sure they know I'm in charge here. Thanks again

I'm glad you weren't offended by my bluntness. I recognised a lot of behaviour in Mum and Grandma that I've seen before.

You're doing a great job and it's entirely normaly to have moments of doubt. It's not a natural thing to do, to keep a child from their mother, so there will be times like that.

I think the key to remember is that you are doing what your son needs where as Mum & Grandma are focussing on what Mum wants. Needs always trump wants.

Good luck. And there are always people on here when you need to rant, let off steam or the likes. Your son is a lucky lad to have you.

I agree with everyone who has said stand your ground and maintain full no contact. Your ex is still in full addict mode. She may or may not be using right now, but that is irrelevant - she's like an alcoholic who isn't drinking but is also not addressing their drinking - it's called 'dry drunk'. All the addict behaviour is still present. (My late husband was an alcoholic and he did a lot of damage to our DDs)

Your son's welfare has to be your first and only priority and you should base all your decisions on that. Do please get in touch with a support organisation - they will not only equip you with a lot of knowledge, they will also help you deal with the guilt tripping you are getting from members of the family. I still attend a support group for relatives of addicts and it's incredibly helpful.

You're a complete of a parent.

If his mum looked like she acknowledged what has happened and she was getting help then I'd take a different view.

This is the key point. Also, mum and grandmother seem to think that your son needs to be part of his mother's recovery but that is quite frankly, bullshit. He is a child. It is not his job to "fix" his mother.

BIL took a lot of these types of approaches with his DC. And now, 2 years sober, he still doesn't understand why his DC aren't super close to him. But a) he's never apologised and b) the years and years of emotional manipulation etc can't just be undone.

At some level his mother knows what her son has been through, she knows how much pain and damage she has caused but she can't face it and so she is wilfully blind to it.
She will not sort out her own problems because that will lead her to a place of having to look clearly and what she has done and she instinctively baulks at this
I think you should let go of your hope of a normal mother and son relationship.

he's never apologized
I have seen these types they want to be forgiven but they do not want to apologise, they want absolution but they want it without having to acknowledge that they have done wrong.

@Heffalooomia 100% yes. He keeps saying, "you need to let it go. It's all in the past."

The complete refusal or actually inability to apologise is very significant in live you...he cannot bring himself to put himself in a that one down position, he cannot defer, he always has to hold himself above, superior and unaccountable
He wants you to let it go so that he can pretend it didn't happen, so that he can pretend he is the person he wants you to think he is, so that he can carry on having his cake and eating it.
Yeah fuck that shit

*In live you = in my view

@Heffalooomia

The complete refusal or actually inability to apologise is very significant in live you...he cannot bring himself to put himself in a that one down position, he cannot defer, he always has to hold himself above, superior and unaccountable He wants you to let it go so that he can pretend it didn't happen, so that he can pretend he is the person he wants you to think he is, so that he can carry on having his cake and eating it. Yeah fuck that shit

Yup. All part of victim mentality. Which I suspect is what OP is facing with his ex too.

@malgrat78 When you speak to any of them now I would probably adopt the Broken Record response of "he is not ready for that right now". Pass a letter/note on, "he is not ready for that right now", pass a message on, "he is not ready for that right now", speak on phone, "he is not ready for that right now" etc etc. Don't explain it or feel you need to justify it or be sympathetic to mum or family members, there is a very good reason why DS is with you now and not wanting contact, he's not a teen that's thrown a strop because he couldn't get his own way at one parents household and I remember all the financial stuff that was happening in the beginning. And I would be equally cautious because she's moved into an environment with people who may have contributed to her MH and addiction issues.

Go with your gut, you know what DS is asking for, you do actually know you're doing right by him and it is evident because he is happy. If she doesn't agree and thinks you are being difficult then she can start court proceedings or mediation herself as he is old enough to decide himself regarding contact now.

@Heffalooomia

The complete refusal or actually inability to apologise is very significant in live you...he cannot bring himself to put himself in a that one down position, he cannot defer, he always has to hold himself above, superior and unaccountable He wants you to let it go so that he can pretend it didn't happen, so that he can pretend he is the person he wants you to think he is, so that he can carry on having his cake and eating it. Yeah fuck that shit

And it is a very, very common tactic for NRP, both male and female (with addictions or not), who won't make any changes to their own lifestyle or parenting to send messages, notes, phone calls, tell sob stories to the world & its wife that they are the wronged party. Just browse in the Stately Homes thread and there's posters in their 30s/40s/50s saying no more.

Kids should never be made to feel that way,. Sending lots of love to your DS that hes having a great time settling back in at school.

[quote JustMeUnderaTree]@malgrat78 When you speak to any of them now I would probably adopt the Broken Record response of "he is not ready for that right now". Pass a letter/note on, "he is not ready for that right now", pass a message on, "he is not ready for that right now", speak on phone, "he is not ready for that right now" etc etc. Don't explain it or feel you need to justify it or be sympathetic to mum or family members, there is a very good reason why DS is with you now and not wanting contact, he's not a teen that's thrown a strop because he couldn't get his own way at one parents household and I remember all the financial stuff that was happening in the beginning. And I would be equally cautious because she's moved into an environment with people who may have contributed to her MH and addiction issues.

Go with your gut, you know what DS is asking for, you do actually know you're doing right by him and it is evident because he is happy. If she doesn't agree and thinks you are being difficult then she can start court proceedings or mediation herself as he is old enough to decide himself regarding contact now.[/quote]
I had to delete some of my replies to her as I could see myself falling into the trap of trying to justify myself to someone who isn't capable or willing to understand so I just kept my replies as short as possible. From now on I am going to adopt the same response as you have outlined.

Yes the financial stuff. Well in the end she has lost everything now including the brand new 2 bed house which she falsely gained by being dishonest. Really sad state of affairs but I have to remind myself I am not responsible for her & I did everything I could to try & guide her so it didn't have to come to this.

Yeah she is now living with the Grandma who I do think is responsible for her mental health issues. This is evident by what her Grandma said to me probably around 8 months ago. We were discussing the situation on the phone & the ex boyfriend & her own mother said to me "God knows what anyone would see in her anyway"! How horrible is this so you can imagine the abuse my ex experienced in her childhood. But again that's not for me to try & fix now, my Son is my priority & I have to stop the dysfunctional cycle continuing.

The response I have ready in my back pocket if needed is "if you do not agree with my approach then please feel free to get legal advice or apply for mediation which I would gladly attend"

@lyralalala

Thank you for your advice it's exactly what I needed to hear! Everything you said I agree with and think I just needed confirming as I was starting to feel a little uncertain again.

I'm going to proceed as I first intended which was to do as my son as requested and not what his mum or grandma wants.

You have hit the nail on the head with them believing she needs her son around to get back on track. This is exactly what they believe and I'm not going to allow my son to be part of that dysfunctionality. My replies will continue to be short and straight to the point making sure they know I'm in charge here. Thanks again

I'm glad you weren't offended by my bluntness. I recognised a lot of behaviour in Mum and Grandma that I've seen before.

You're doing a great job and it's entirely normaly to have moments of doubt. It's not a natural thing to do, to keep a child from their mother, so there will be times like that.

I think the key to remember is that you are doing what your son needs where as Mum & Grandma are focussing on what Mum wants. Needs always trump wants.

Good luck. And there are always people on here when you need to rant, let off steam or the likes. Your son is a lucky lad to have you.

Nope not offended at all :) I would rather people be straight with me & tell me how it is.

Yeah I think the issue I am feeling internally is to do with keeping my son away from his mum but as been mentioned no parent is better than a bad parent. Just because you give birth to a child doesn't automatically mean that you are an healthy parent for them.

I think the struggle is due to the nature of the dysfunctional family. They actually believe certain behaviors & neglect are ok. They have been conditioned to think this for a few generations. As you say dialogue from his mum / grandma is focused around my sons mums wants & they actually think my Son is a cure to her problems which I will not put up with.

Thank you :)

@pointythings

I agree with everyone who has said stand your ground and maintain full no contact. Your ex is still in full addict mode. She may or may not be using right now, but that is irrelevant - she's like an alcoholic who isn't drinking but is also not addressing their drinking - it's called 'dry drunk'. All the addict behaviour is still present. (My late husband was an alcoholic and he did a lot of damage to our DDs)

Your son's welfare has to be your first and only priority and you should base all your decisions on that. Do please get in touch with a support organisation - they will not only equip you with a lot of knowledge, they will also help you deal with the guilt tripping you are getting from members of the family. I still attend a support group for relatives of addicts and it's incredibly helpful.

You're a complete of a parent.

Yes she is not emotionally clean & this is what scares me. She may have stopped the drugs but I am 99.9% she is not addressing the actual deeper problem so any contact with my son will be tainted with this. She will likely be manipulative, irrigatable, emotionally abusive & very self centered. If she was getting help then maybe it would be a different story but it appears that her & her family think the treatment plan for her problems is to run away, stop taking drugs & contact with my son.

I have contacted another organization this morning who have given me some great advice & links. Thank you :)

@malgrat78 Glad to hear it

Keep in mind that counselling for yourself might be a good option at some point. Counselling can be a great place to vent about the unfairness and to say all of the things you can't say out loud generally. Another option is driving out to somewhere quiet. I did that the other day after my DD's father let her down; drove to a quiet beach, in the rain and loudly told him exactly what I thought of him in a safe environment.

It sounds like you are spot on. If they are that kind of family they probably also have a "Well that was ages ago so..." towards things that mean they never really get resolved and that's simply not healthy.

I am just going to disagree with one previous poster - please don't say "he is not ready for that right now" to his Mum. Language is very important in this situation. "Right now" suggests that there is absolutely going to be a time that he is ready - that may not be the case. It also opens you up to constant "Is he ready yet?" questioning

Also "he is not ready" is a very woolly statement that could be interpreted as you deciding for him. Short and simple is better. Either "That is not in DS's best interests" or "DS does not want that" would be better than being ready imo.

@SpaceOP

If his mum looked like she acknowledged what has happened and she was getting help then I'd take a different view.

This is the key point. Also, mum and grandmother seem to think that your son needs to be part of his mother's recovery but that is quite frankly, bullshit. He is a child. It is not his job to "fix" his mother.

BIL took a lot of these types of approaches with his DC. And now, 2 years sober, he still doesn't understand why his DC aren't super close to him. But a) he's never apologised and b) the years and years of emotional manipulation etc can't just be undone.

Yes! This is exactly what they think & I am not going to allow this. My Sons mums recovery should be priority at the moment & then as a byproduct my Son may come back into her life when appropriate. His mum said "she will be waiting for him". Just the nature of this sentence shows to me that she believes its down to my Son & all she has to do is wait for him to "come around"

Sorry to hear about your BIL & his DC. The emotional manipulation is a big thing with my Son. This was a big part of the problem even before the drugs. However, he can recognize it now & even at his age he has said to me "Dad she's trying to manipulate me again" One silver lining out of all of this is that he is going to be a very strong & wise lad when he grows up. I am so proud of him & he is so caring & grown up. He is well behaved & well mannered. According to his mum he was "a little ba**d".

[quote lyralalala]@malgrat78 Glad to hear it

Keep in mind that counselling for yourself might be a good option at some point. Counselling can be a great place to vent about the unfairness and to say all of the things you can't say out loud generally. Another option is driving out to somewhere quiet. I did that the other day after my DD's father let her down; drove to a quiet beach, in the rain and loudly told him exactly what I thought of him in a safe environment.

It sounds like you are spot on. If they are that kind of family they probably also have a "Well that was ages ago so..." towards things that mean they never really get resolved and that's simply not healthy.

I am just going to disagree with one previous poster - please don't say "he is not ready for that right now" to his Mum. Language is very important in this situation. "Right now" suggests that there is absolutely going to be a time that he is ready - that may not be the case. It also opens you up to constant "Is he ready yet?" questioning

Also "he is not ready" is a very woolly statement that could be interpreted as you deciding for him. Short and simple is better. Either "That is not in DS's best interests" or "DS does not want that" would be better than being ready imo.[/quote]
I have some wonderful friends at work who I can talk to & I need to push myself to engage with them more to be honest instead of keeping it in.

Yeah I see what you mean about the "yet" statements. Knowing his Mum she will use this as an excuse not to work on herself & as a way of just waiting until he is ready & constantly asking me. I shall probably look at my replies with regards to that. Thanks :)

@Heffalooomia

At some level his mother knows what her son has been through, she knows how much pain and damage she has caused but she can't face it and so she is wilfully blind to it. She will not sort out her own problems because that will lead her to a place of having to look clearly and what she has done and she instinctively baulks at this I think you should let go of your hope of a normal mother and son relationship.

Yes! She does know deep down but she is taking the easy option of denial & book passing. It's too uncomfortable for her to admit & face her problems. Until she can do this nothing will ever get better. The victim mentality never works & I fear this will lead her back to drugs or worse mental health.

The "yet" statements will also give his Mum an excuse to get arsey. She'll start sulking that he's making her wait so long, that he's playing games etc etc. All she needs to know is what she knows already - he's not interested and you are supporting him in that because it's in his best interests.

Keeping it clean and simple is the best way to deal with it.

You don't need to mention her childhood, DS childhood or anything about her going legal as she can arrange that herself if she feels you are alienating DS from her. Even throug h the courts, all they can do.is make sure you make DC see her, they don't have anything if she doesn't see DC.

Tough love now, you're waiting for her to step up - she's not going to be stepping up.