new to dating..am i expecting more than i should? (money)

[user1464836]

NC for this as expect people will want to jump to conclusions.

I don’t earn huge amounts, by that I mean I’m not wealthy. I own my own home, mortgaged, worth around 350. I earn around 55k. I’m 36.

After a relationship breakdown last year, I’ve started dating and find that there are so many men who don’t earn near this and they seem to assume I will pay for things. Even when it’s said in jest I hate it. And no I’ve not said what my salary is but my job title and the area I live suggests I earn well I guess?! Am I being unreasonable to expect to meet someone who earns similar to me and has also made a start on getting on the property ladder?

I know it ‘shouldn’t matter’ but there’s something unattractive about feeling I have to provide for these men. I have met others that earn more or similar but then they tend to not have even invested in a place and just live one day to the next. It bothers me but is this just the norm and am I expecting too much?

Of course these men shouldn’t be hinting that they want you to financially support them, and the guy you described does sound rude, but you’re not coming across very well either.

You earn more than 90% of the population. Home ownership is dwindling because people simply can’t afford houses - paying inflated rents doesn’t leave much room to save. Some jobs and industries simply do not pay up to 55k - the salary range may stop before then. People doing a job they enjoy that pays less than that are no less ambitious - job satisfaction is a big deal. Why should they go into something that pays better but they might hate it? Of course these men should be able to cover their own outgoings and not look to you as a source of funds but I think you have got an unrealistic idea of most people’s finances.

And no, the man shouldn’t have to pay, you should split it.

@user1464836

backwards I did think that maybe because of my age I won’t meet someone who is single and has a decent job.... maybe that’s the problem?!

I know 55 is a good salary I just think at almost 40 most men should want to be on more than 30, and it doesn’t seem that way

How will most men over 40 be earning £55k when its in the top 10% of earners?

I’m sure lots of people want to earn more than £30k, but for a lot of people it isn’t possible.

OP you are getting a tough time for earning decent money which is pretty shit and misogynistic. I absolutely agree with you and when I got divorced my main consideration was that dates could cover what they had (I’m a highish earner). I don’t need to be paid for, the offer is nice but I pay my own way and expect them to be able to and willing to. Bin these men and don’t cover half if they take the piss. I’ve also advised male friends to not pay for more than their share on dates too if their date takes the piss with what they order, it’s different when you’re dating or exclusive but a first date - no.
Quite frankly there is nothing wrong with wanting someone who can pay for themselves - for either sex. I don't read the paper but Guardian soul mates used to have a good reputation. And good luck!

You have probably missed the boat a bit anyway unless you date younger. Most decent men of 36 or over are already snapped up and a lot of high earners don’t give a shit how much their partner earns, they just want them to look nice.

This.

All the good ones are taken now.

I have the exact same problem as you OP except i am 20 years older lol!. I have my own home, savings, a pension and a good job and I want to meet my financial equal but never do.

The irony is, if we were men, we'd have our pick our women!

With online dating one might go on 5 first dates in the same week, would a bloke be expected to pay for his date each time? Maybe that is why they don't have a mortgage yet cos of paying on all the first dates that lead to nowhere. Its better to go Dutch on the first few dates imo.

Only a tiny minority of the population make that sort of salary, so your pool is going to be pretty small.

You are sorely mistaken about income. The average wage in England is under 30k. If your friends and relatives have professional careers and therefore salaries you will have made assumptions of what a standard income is.

Just suggests that op.should only date similar professionals. Though of course that narrows the field .. but you only need one. Best to not waste time with those who aren't on a similar salary/in s similar position if it's important to you.

Re. The dates, I'd stick to coffees/drinks until you've dated them quite a few times and it's going well.

@hastingsmua1

Well, I'm more than twice your age, and have dc your age, andd I can tell you it wasn't the norm in the 80s or 90s and wasn't/ isn't the norm for my young adult dc in the 20teens or 2020 to not be ready to pay your own way.
Yes, absolutely, once you are in a relationship it is nice to be treated - both as a woman or as a man - but when you first meet up with someone, it has long been the expectation that you are prepared to pay your way - that might be with one getting the cinema tickets and one getting the drinks in the pub afterwards, or similar, but when a bill comes at the end of the meal, I'd expect both parties to reach for their cash (or card as it is now).

OP you are getting a tough time for earning decent money which is pretty shit and misogynistic.

No she isn't.
People are saying her attitude to people that earn less than her is poor - which it is. As it would be if she were a man saying he wouldn't date a woman who earned a lower wage. It's not misogynistic. It;s saying it's a pretty strange criteria for 'rules of people to date' as it is ruling out 90% of the potential pool of people she might like to start a relationship with.

You have probably missed the boat a bit anyway unless you date younger. Most decent men of 36 or over are already snapped up and a lot of high earners don’t give a shit how much their partner earns, they just want them to look nice.

There may still be some "late" settlers and also divorcees.

Some men care about a woman's income & status (not what she can provide them with, they just rate a good profession/status etc .. some don't). To use the old cliche, it's a numbers game.

Also worth considering is that a man may not earn the same or more than you now, but that might change in future and also that someone can bring "value" to the relationship/household in different ways. For example I know a woman who out earns her DH; but he's from a farming background and was given land/a site for their home together. He can also work extra hours flexibly doing "home-rs" and bring in cash as much as he wants (I doubt he's paying tax on it).

Other guys might earn less but have great interest and aptitude for DIY etc or other skills and can do with you'd otherwise have to pay for. My sister's DH is like this, low earning ability due to terrible parental attitude to education and possibly dyslexia but could turn hand to anything, I mean anything (practical) and do it well. He saved them money on a house build and they therefore made a better profit.

Some might be very supportive, positive etc and they provide stability, happiness etc. which is unquantifiable.

If you're not interested in trade offs of that sort, perhaps some elite dating or matchmaking site (?)

Of perhaps a relocation to somewhere with concentrated higher earners in finance, tech etc. That usually means a big international city (of which London is one if course).

Security can change at any time in life
What you have now can change. Life throws things at you. Your job can change due to redundancy, health etc
A man may earn a certain amount you look for now but that is no guarantee.
You are allowed to have your standards with regards to money but it doesn't guarantee it would last.
Look for his values.

Experience has told me it's human nature for some people to take the piss, ordering more when bills are going to be split.

You probably don't want to be tied to one of those people for life. Especially when you're the one who's going to have to take maternity, and maybe a salary drop for early childhood years.

Just like for some people money isn't important so it simply doesn't occur to them someone else might feel differently.

Bet it would be important to them if it was someone else who had the expensive items and expected them to go half.

55k is a high salary. Like a PP said it's in the top 10%.

As you're 36 a fairly large number of men in your age range will already be married or in long term relationships. Another percentage will be gay or long term bachelors or just not interested. The percentage left over isn't going to be huge, but by specifying that they need to earn in the top 10% of salaries, you're restricting yourself even further.

Lots of people work hard and are at the top of their careers and won't be earning anywhere near that amount. As long as they're financially solvent, what does it matter?

@TheMarzipanDildo

Going Dutch is generally the classy thing to do on dates isn’t it? It’s bizarre for anyone to expect to be paid for nowadays I think.

But the op is expecting to be paid for on the first date?!

With online dating one might go on 5 first dates in the same week, would a bloke be expected to pay for his date each time? Maybe that is why they don't have a mortgage yet cos of paying on all the first dates that lead to nowhere.

Yeah .. that's why they haven't got a mortgage.

@hastingsmua1

What ??? Have we done some sort of time travel here ?

Errrr, I don’t know what to tell you as you’ve clearly been living under a rock all these decades. I’ve only been alive for 2 decades and even I know that it’s been a traditional cultural norm for men to pay on dates - perhaps have a google of the concept of “chivalry”? And before you start on me next, I’m not saying men should pay on dates - I’m just saying that for a very long time it has been a societal norm so it’s ridiculous to act unawares

The cultural norm? Are you not aware that things have moved on over the last few decades?!

It is absolutely ridiculous for women to talk about equality and then expect men to pay for them. I am a woman and I am embarrassed by the stupidity of this sort of behaviour and attitude.

I’m disgusted that any woman (or man) expects to be paid for on a first date. Women want fair treatment and equality but somehow when it comes to dating that all changes?! Chivalry, my arse.

Split the bill - you can afford to do that. Don’t talk about salaries - it’s crass.

Surely you have a sense of what these men are like before you agree to have dinner with them so use that time/communication to weed out the rude pisstakers.

almost 40 I would expect most men to be on similar pay if not more

I'm 46. I earn £25k. I run a charity. I have a small mortgage on my flat.

You need to manage your expectations more. They are way off base when average income isn't anywhere near your salary.

OP have you considered specialist matchmakers? I distantly know someone in a similar position who went that route—late 30s, very senior banking sector role, looking to settle down. Now married with kids.

I think you're totally within your rights to look for a partner who is going to share equally and not rely on you. But I also think you're unrealistic that "most" men would be earning near this at your age. You're on almost double the national average wage. However, if you want to choose to date at the same professional level, don't let anyone tell you you're being shallow. You're just being realistic about your desires for the future.
Expecting him to pay sometimes (though not every time) when dating is also fine.
Don't forget, though, that earnings change a lot in the course of a relationship. In the 14 years I've been with my husband we've swapped places on who is the higher earner a few times, even though he's more than a decade older than me. When we met he outearned me by quite a lot; then my income increases and he got made redundant and took a lower paid role; then after we had children I went part time and he was earning more again. We are both professionals with post graduate degrees and neither of us has ever made £55k individually yet (although I came quite close before kids).

So you think it's unattractive for a man to expect a woman to pay for them....but you expect a man to offer and pay for you. I find that expectation unattractive from either sex. When I dated we'd just stick to drinks. One round each or pay for our own. Because we're both adults who make our own money. Plus I'm very independent and would be uncomfortable letting someone I don't know pay for me.

It's fine to have whatever non negotiables you like. But stop discussing salaries/guessing what they earn etc.

Also maybe you're attracting certain people because you come across a certain way? Like you look down your nose at people who haven't achieved what you consider to be success.

I'm surprised you're struggling to find similar ages men on similar salaries. It's not unreasonable for you to want compatibility in that respect. I earned quite a bit more than that at your age, and always found men who earned the same. However I hugely dislike being paid for particularly on the first date, as I dislike the idea it's based on, which is that unmarried women historically had absolutely nothing and would not have been able to pay for dinner. Since I'm in the top 10% of salaries I would find it ridiculous not to split everything - assuming the man was on similar pay. That's how I wanted any future relationship to be built, so it's how I started.

Op I totally agree with you and as a not long divorcee hope that you stick to your guns. I always have a small purse with plenty change so I can make sure I pay my way. I'm not tight but I can't abide people organising a treat for themselves with my money, expecting me to be too polite to mention it. You are better to find out fast and politely decline their next invitation.

Someone organising a treat though is just bad manners. You will get bad manners from all types of men.
That I get and def don't bother with dating that kind of man.
But the whole salary thing is judging someone before you even know them