20 years in it’s dawned on me

[Treatedlikeamaid]

Hello!
Not actually sure if this will work..Am seeing if this starts a follow on thread. am just so gobsmacked with how wonderfully helpful you have all been when I could not see whether dp was being controlling or not. Maybe it’s worth keeping the thread going in case it’s of use to others? It’s because it’s easy(ish) to tell if someone is being obviously awful, but what if they are just being manipulative like a little boy? And you gradually swap confidence for anxiety and cannot work out why you are depressed and confused?
It just felt like the last thread created such a wonderful supportive group it seems a shame to let that go, if it’s at all helpful.

Freeing yourself from this kind of long term mind-fuckery is a process not an event.

It seems to me you are moving along the curve shown attached. Where do you think you are?

Have you noticed that you reward bad behaviour on his part, especially whining?

said I needed to go to supermarket with him as he was tired of going and the picture wasn’t going to make me rich and I’d been swanning around In spain while he blah blah..’

See in my house if anyone, adult or teen, came out with such a rude accusatory-whingefest, they'd get shot down pretty damn fast and wouldn't get the reward of what they want. Definitely no going to the supermarket together. Definitely no abandoning the only paid work in your household to help him buy emergency loo roll or whatever was so desperate

You obviously let him go on and on at you. No, why should that be allowed? Bloody rude bastard.

We will have to talk about this later. I am busy working now. Repeat ad infinitum.

Don't get into whether it is a good job, will make you rich or whatever. It is the only job anyone has in your household and you happen to love it. Be snippy, be short, cut him off mid sentence. "I am working. I need to get on. I don't have time for this." Or "This is not the right time for this discussion. I am working."

Have tasks set up around you, preparations, cleaning, note checking, that you can pick up and do immediately he starts with his interrupting, whining and attention seeking (not the actual art, you don't want to fuck it up by doing it angry and flustered). The idea is you send the message I AM AT WORK by your actions. He is going on about supermarkets, Spain, how shit you are and how hard his life is. You are bustling about doing work shit. This has the massive bonus that you can
-easily avoid eye contact,

• ask him to repeat himself (useful if he has been rude about your portrait ranking it lower than helping him buy the desperately urgent groceries or such like),
• have long pauses before responding (as you mix, match, check, wipe, etc)
• say "I can't get into this now, I am working." then get on with a thing.
• say "I am not leaving my work now. Maybe later." then get on with a thing.
• or the somewhat inflammatory "I do not want to spend time with you when you are carrying on like this. I am going to continue my work.", followed up by "You have just proved my point. I am not getting into this with you now. I am working."

Or, will result in extreme sabotage no doubt but will feel good in the moment: "Oh FFS, get a bloody job."

I have bad insomnia tonight. Blimming menopause.

Thanks tork! Am very glad you have insomnia cos you wrote this😃! Menopause is crap isn’t it - I wake up every 2 hours so you have all my sympathies. (And what’s with the sudden bulgy bits!) Sometimes listening to very academic podcasts help - amazing how Trying to learn something can send you to sleep.
This chart is great. I guess I’m on searching and disorganisation or maybe I’m even on new strengths. A bit anyway. I’m certainly not in ‘definite plan and sorted’!
Thanks for pointing out it’s a long process. It’s seems to be a long process of treading on wobbly ice floes and feeling your way before they tip up!
I’d forgotten, the counsellor mentioned this too. She said, a big sign on the door and clearly defined hours that everyone knows about.
We do seem to be Having Words nearly every day. Actually that should go in a diary. It will help see what’s happening.
Oh! What may be happening is he’s working out how to react to new me- as some of you mentioned. Yesterday was going on again about investing pension in business and spending 2k on a website. ‘ I thought you had faith in it/ took it seriously’. I do. Or did. But what with my nervousness at showing my work and a tendency to procrastinate/get confused and his wandering in every half hour am having Doubts. Another week of creeping forward and not really having much to show.just want to make PROGRESS! ( so will stop typing this!)
Many thanks tork.

P.s. I like the ‘ask him to repeat himself’ tip! You rock x

Remember this is your business not his!!

"When you have a successful small business I'll take your advice"

"When I decide the time is right I'll be doing that"

"That's not the right thing for my business yet"

"Focus on setting up your own business/getting a job instead of putting mine down"

"My pension isn't going anywhere, how about you dip into yours"

"What makes you think you are an expert on my business"

"I have a business plan and it's just fine thank you"

Peri menopause insomnia is bad enough 😱

Thanks random! Will do!
Just started an ‘argument tracker! Fri ( as far back as I can recall) supermarket whine. Sat - really appalling tantrum re school uniforms. Sun, he doesn’t see why he should fund my business, get your pension out.
And I thought we were getting on better! Ooh err.

P.s. welcome to night sweats!

That grief curve is really interesting. Not seen that before. I like how the helping others is right at the end.

Another tantrum stopper

"You shouldn't have blocked me working for x years then should you?"

Doesn't he have a big wodge of redundancy money sitting in his bank account?

Yet he wants you to rob your pension to pay for a website for the only income the family has.

Tell him when your business is profitable enough you'll spend 2k on his new business, if he needs it, seeing as yours will probably be profitable before his. Get him wanting to do his business to prove himself (and get off your case).

"We only get on well when I do exactly what you want when you want it which is running around after you and being domestic servant"

You keep falling into the traps.

Here's a pattern. He is "nice", i.e. not obnoxious, for a few days, you think everything is hunky dory now, let your guard down and talk about serious topics as if he were an honest partner. Then he destroys you on something important.

I recommend keep a high level emotion timeline/log for yourself in the same tantrum log.

Is the website for your own work?
You dont need to pay £2K for one
I have absolutely zero experience of creating websites but managed quite easily to make one for our business using squarespace and adapting a provided template.
It was not that difficult at all. And it looks fantastic and has resulted in loads of enquiries even though I have no clue about, nor have implemented any kind of SOE/SEO whatever its called

let him concentrate on his own shit rather than trying to knock yours down. Hows his job hunting getting on (please do not be tempted to take your focus off your stuff to 'look for work / check his CV for him - hes a big boy and can either do it himself or ask someone who knows about it)

website costing 2k that you apparently need: He is trying to undermine your judgement. But also trying to make you use your financial security. And disrupting your concentration by interrupting you every half hour. He’s not a toddler needing to be entertained. Hopefully his new job starts soon! And involves travel, even in covid times, far away. But sadly I expect he will be WFH and being Mr Important with the Big Job again.

Yes, I suspect he is reacting to the new you and trying to get you back into your box, so to speak.

I think the danger of calling what you have arguments is that it implies there are two people at fault and the relationship is high-conflict, whereas what you have is one person provoking the other into a response, often by starting from a ridiculous premise. As you won’t change him, it then falls to you not to engage with the ridiculous premise. However, this is exhausting and particularly hard if it involves things dear to you. Even the fact that you need to keep a journal to make sense of it takes up your time. Don’t get me wrong, keeping a journal is extremely helpful to see the manipulation and gas-lighting and trust yourself (because you write down what happens when it happens) - I filled five volumes at the height of my situation - but when I think about how much time went into managing the situation and coping, and what else I could have done, it is a bit eye-brow raising.

I don’t think you are disorganised, really. I think you have a lot to take on board and the pieces have not yet fallen into place, and at the same time, you have someone messing them up again just as soon as you begin to get them straight. But actually, you are looking after your DC, you have a job, you are working on your business, all of which takes some level of organisation 👍

I am not sure for me at least that curve really applied until after I had left because whilst you are in the situation, you are effectively fire-fighting not fully processing emotions. And the more you go along the path to new you, the bigger the fires (like you say, new you = arguments every day).

I am surprised you need to spend 2k on a website.

There are loads of simple options that are free/almost free.

what KatySun says is true

My psychotherapist pointed out that I was so busy managing the situation and firefighting and justifying myself and being gaslit that I had lost sight of the fact that I could simply walk away.

I suspect he feels threatened by your ability to do something independant of him, and he wants it to fail. Firstly because it proves him the winner, but secondly because it removes your ability to be independant of him. Likewise trying to get you to spend up your pension - that money is a threat to him - it gives you a chance to support yourself without focusing on him. My ex was never so happy than when burning through my assets

Treatedlikeamaid Off topic a bit but my menopause hot flushes and sweats are a food intolerance so I can control them to a large extent. This is my major trigger www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/additive-and-natural-chemical-factsheets/salicylates, Then there is MSG and ribo and colours etc.

Hi again, @Treatedlikeamaid.... I understand that you upload a lot of artworks and this probably costs a bit more than a standard format business website.
Again, you need to define roles with him. You are currently the only earner, ergo, you decide. He knows nothing about the field and can stay out of it if he can’t be supportive.
I have to sign into class. Will check in later.

Thanks everyone! Will pop back in a mo

Morning! I am continually amazed at how much useful info and help you are all being supportivE enough to give. Nettle and Katy , you are right - but thanks to you guys I no longer need to write for hours pointlessly trying to work out what wrong.. That’s very hard - when you can’t work out what’s wrong and try harder to make it better, then become a victim and depressed. Honestly this should all be taught at every school. I have a ‘ nice things’ diary too! Katysun, thank you for saying you don’t think I’m that disorganised, that means a lot.
Yes tork, he has a payoff, but doesn’t want to see it dwindle!
Random, lol! I’m lolling now in a ‘oh yeah!’ And thanks justilou, you are all right - it’s MY thing, I’ll decide! Am also getting a lot clearer and stronger about what counts as time wasting - again, it’s SO helpful having you point out stuff to me, that I’d not have picked up on.
This weeks therapy ( in case it’s useful) obvs this was in context so may read a bit odd here.- he can only put pressure on you if you choose to accept it. Don’t back off saying stuff to people ( brother!) for fear of causing a row - think of the outcome If you don’t say something. ( The situation Became much harder work), its our happiness to make the most of our talents. And re my dd - school is so big, it needs everyone to be a square peg in a square hole so make life easier for you, do that while you’re at school, but also go all out for what you’re good at.
Gosh, I’m actually beginning to structure my time. What’s going on!

Keep in this positive frame set.

How ironic that he has redundancy money AND pension pot all enabled by you looking after the DC and home full time yet he repeatedly tries to get you to dip into your meagre pension pot to keep you entirely dependent on him...

Stand like a rock "No, I'm working"

If he moans about the house work or dinner etc he either does it or lives with it as is because you are working to set up your business!!!!

Oh and last bit - found this REALLY helpful, for procrastinating cos it means you don’t have to beat yourself up any more..council business lady said...in business and life you have To be lots of different people. You are an accountant and also a digital marketer etc etc. Realise that though some of those people are confident and know stuff, the digital marketer has just started Work, and is the equivalent of a nervous school leaver, so cut her some slack and help her basically. I found this immediately helped with the overall overwhelm , panic and Feeling useless, because it made the emotion more specific to her,and know I can be a bit more sympathetic and learn rather than a general feeling of not measuring up. Wonder what you will think of that tork?
And helping others is on your grief curve! Hurrah things are moving! For the first time in aeons the anxiety is fading. Instead of feeling useless Cos the house is a tip, I don’t care! Ha ha ha! will wash up in coffee break. Hang on...why am I assuming that’s my job??😂💐💐💐💐💐💐to you all x

Thanks random! I would have ( and have) bewilderedly fallen for this before. TFF mn! And why did I not go on it years ago? It’s An incredible set up. There’s no way I could have bored my mates for this long 😀 or in this depth, and got this much sage advise from differing perspectives. Counselling would not have been ( hasn’t been) half as effective without the back up of you guys.

Hey @treatedlikeamaid
I'm a long time lurker on this & the other thread, it's been so nice watching your self confidence grow - you sound a million times more confident and happier in yourself than you did at the start. I hope you realise how far you've come, it's like reading posts from a different person! You're doing brilliantly.
Question from curious me - what happened to the "we're going to lose the house" drama? Did you ever get clarity on that? Or has it all just stopped when you got back from your mum's?

Oh. My. God.

Hidden in one of your last posts was this "Yes tork, he has a payoff, but doesn’t want to see it dwindle!"

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME! So you are not on the breadline. He has money but doesnt want to see it dwindle??? I thought you were poor to the point of not being able to afford food - and yet here you are. Sitting on a payout. Im gobsmacked.

There is only one reply to him - 'use your payout'. For food shopping & school uniforms (no doubt why he wants you there, so you can use your money). And everything & anything else.

"Use your payout or get a job. Ive had enough of you & if you dont stop this right now I will move out. And stop interfering in my business. Get a job & earn some money"

Repeat over & over. What an arse, seriously.