Marriage issues related to lack of sex and DH generally feeling rejected

[WorriedMummy2020]

Me and DH are both early 40s. Been together 20yrs + and married for 12.
Two kids who are 4 and 8. History of infertility/fertility treatment/pregnancy loss.
My libido took a hit all through that as I hated my body for not conceiving and losing pregnancies. Then came a difficult birth and two bad sleepers as babies.
I have never had a strong libido. DH's has always been higher. Pre TTC the Pill killed my natural libido. DH would never refuse sex unless ill but I very rarely instigate it. We have sex maybe once or twice a month. I don't keep total track but whatever he wants more. I so rarely feel like it. Most time when we do it I get into it and DH is very giving and I usually climax but sometimes I just kind of go along with it. When I enjoy it, it doesn't leave me wanting more the next day. DH gets moody and hurt when we don't have sex for a while and says he feels rejected. His mood changes when we have had sex recently.
I just never feel like it other than once in a blue moon. We've had sex maybe 10 times max since lockdown started. I'm not having sex with anyone else (!)and rarely masturbate.
I'm so sick of the arguments. DH just doesn't get why I don't want to do 'something easy, free, normal and loving' as often as he does. He takes it as a rejection and yet another sign that I don't care for, love or respect him. I can see why but I feel so stressed with childcare and household stuff despite DH doing his fair share (we have no other family support) and also extended family health worries (I definitely have anxiety and am not medicated). I lost a parent a few years ago too and still feel that loss. DH thinks I should be moving on.
He seems convinced that lots of people in a similar situation are equally matched when it comes to sex and have regular sex maybe as much as when they first met even 20 years on. I have read enough threads on here to know that's not the case.
I have suggested counselling but he is sceptical.
I want to save this relationship and end the tension. I wish I could flick a switch. DH says I'm repressed due to my religious upbringing. :(
We aren't very intimate in other ways and I think we should start there but DH says we just need to have more sex... I feel every time we do kiss or cuddle on rare occasions it has to lead somewhere.
From time to time (day off work when both kids at school or childcare or when on holiday) we have amazing sex and for me that's good for a while but DH always wants more.
Help!

I really don't like nor understand the 'i feel rejected' argument. It isn't about you.

@arethereanyleftatall i feel rejected is a valid feeling for the person being rejected.

Can you not strike a compromise? Not everyday but more frequently than a couple times a month? There is no right answer to how much sex is the right amount and you are not abnormal for not wanting it as much as him, but he is equally not abnormal for finding your current sex life unfulfilling.

I agree that solo counselling sounds like it would be good for you, but that he needs to put more effort into this too and start taking your suggestions of more intimacy, couples counselling, etc.

Communication needs to be the big focus here

@arethereanyleftatall

I really don't like nor understand the 'i feel rejected' argument. It isn't about you.

Of course it is about them. It impacts on them directly? who the fuck else is it about?

You'll know from reading MN that mismatched libido is really a problem in relationships. That's clearly the case here. I often wonder people don't recognize this as a problem MUCH earlier in relationships? Or perhaps one partner changes over time?

Don't really have advice, but I think you owe it to yourself to speak to someone. Realistically, that sounds easiest, but also a reasonable first step.

I do fell sorry for you, but also a lot of sympathy for your DP too.

Good luck!

@Onmydoorstep great post

@arethereanyleftatall People are perfectly entitled to feel rejected if their partner is regularly rejecting them. If his sex life is not about him and his partner then who is it about?

I mean - person A does not want sex. With anyone. They are not 'rejecting' person B. They don't want sex. It isn't about person B.

I'm going to put my armour on before I write this as I think I will come under attack shortly.

I agree with those who have said your DH should agree to counselling, you should try everything to get your relationship back on track since that is what you both want.

But you also need to make an effort to have sex. Even if you are not 100% keen on the idea. Sex is a very important part of any relationship, certainly it will vary over the years but if one partner feels it is an issue then the relationship will come under pressure. My DW and I agreed years ago when our DC were young that we should try not to go longer than a week without. And sometimes we have done it when one of us didn't really want to but we had a deal and we knew it was important not to allow it to slip off the agenda. Sex demonstrates love and commitment in a way which can't quite be matched by anything else. And that approach, which, before the hordes descend I would like to make clear is NOT sex on demand, has worked very well for us, we still have an active and fulfilling sex life after 30 years together. Sex, like other aspects of a relationship, requires compromise and a willingness to meet in the middle when differences become apparent.

What a shame for both of you. Does anything turn you on at all any more? Maybe the comment about being repressed was your OH’s rubbish way of saying you need to explore your sexuality and experiment more. Perhaps he has some ideas that he feels you wouldn’t be open to trying?

It is a miserable when someone is nagging you for sex you don’t want. But at least you are talking about it, that is a huge positive.

You could strike a bargain with him where he agrees to give you evenings of nothing but affection with no expectations, and you give him evenings where you agree to try something a bit more interesting in the bedroom. Or the living room. Or wherever you happen to be.

It’s not like taking in turns to make tea. If the op doesn’t feel like it for whatever reason, that is enough. I’m glad that approach has worked for your marriage anothernick but it does seem a bit ‘lie back and think of England dear’.

Ops partner needs to find new ways to make his partner feel like intimacy whether it’s being fun/flirty in day, trips away, cooking dinner whatever works for them. Sounds like he has shifted into taking the marriage for granted mode.

I hear you OP. I have just separated from what was essentially a platonic marriage. It wasn't always like that but my partner had such a high sex drive I just started to feel used. You mention not being able to have a cuddle without it 'leading somewhere'. I had this. It meant our relationship became affectionless unless I was prepared to have sex. I lay back and thought of England so many times in the end that by the last time I wanted to punch his face in. I ended up resenting him so badly. He does have various other MH conditions that made things very hard on me too but the endless approaches for sex in the most inappropriate situations and the total lack of healthy affection was too much to deal with.
If you are to get through this you both need to compromise. He has to understand that sex is the icing on the cake of a good, healthy relationship. He has no right to your body. He has to be able to give you the affection you need without pressure for sex or a mardy-arsed face because he didn't get what he wanted. You could do your level best to arrange some time together to do something you'll both enjoy, relax in each other's company, maybe snog in the car at the end of it like silly teens.
All the best OP. This is a tough one for you.

Vintageyoda - sorry to hear that.
Yes I feel like it's back to front. I want us to work on intimacy and communication first without the pressure of sex but he simply doesn't understand. Says its hurtful and rejection that I describe it as pressure as it's obviously just something nice, fun,free and normal that you do work someone you're married to....as below.
It just gets his back up when I suggest this. This is am example of my repression and odd view of sex, in his opinion.

Equally I wouldn't say my DH has an abnormally high sex drive, but not sure how I would know for sure.
We had sex last night, quick, just going through the motions for me but I was ok to do that.
Because we had the afternoon to ourselves today as the kids were at school he got grumpy when I did I didn't want sex again as was busy catching up on house stuff (we both do lots of that but I do the lion's share as am PT and he is always saying the house is messy and stressing him out even so). And me not wanting to have sex today has started off the latest conflict. He says we argued and debated for longer than it would have taken to do it, which spectacularly misses the point IMO.

No idea how we or just I fit in counselling in the current lockdown situation though.

Video counselling

It will be September now. We have no childcare after today for the school summer holiday and the kids are rarely asleep before 9pm.....

That really does miss the point!!! Does he think you're lack of sex drive is down to a time issue? Or does he think if he goes on about it enough it will grind you down and you will acquiesce for an easy life? He doesn't seem to take no for an answer. That sounds very frustrating for you.

After years of TV, film and Internet our ideas of sex and desire are messed up.

It's a bit like body image, we no longer seem to know what a realistic body should look like.

Rejection can cause us to become fixated on the thing we feel we are not getting. Sex becomes something to be tallied up in out heads. Only twice last month etc.

Sex is ultimately about the giving and receiving of pleasure and in long term relationships the desire to do this often ebbs and flows.

The only answer that ever seems to work is talking honestly without the external dross about sex and desire that is instilled in us from the minute we are interested in it.

It sounds like this has become another thing to 'do' for him rather than time where you can explore your own pleasure.
Have you tried asking for some time to switch from mum mode to wife mode? A bath, something like that where you're not disturbed.
Also the more he asks the more you move back. You need a rest from this dance. Can you initiate next time? Ask him to wait for it, no badgering you.
Lastly, scheduling sex is always a good idea IME. It sounds unromantic but as I heard once, we schedule sex when we're dating! We plan it, look forward to it. We stop doing that in marriage! Also it sets expectations on both of you for how much you'll both be doing. You'll have to give more, he'll have to get less. Compromise as a loving act from you both. Good luck.

LovelyMonkeyNinetyNine, CustardyCreams and GetaGripFFS I like your suggestions. Will see what DH thinks. Thanks

@Anothernick

I'm going to put my armour on before I write this as I think I will come under attack shortly.

I agree with those who have said your DH should agree to counselling, you should try everything to get your relationship back on track since that is what you both want.

But you also need to make an effort to have sex. Even if you are not 100% keen on the idea. Sex is a very important part of any relationship, certainly it will vary over the years but if one partner feels it is an issue then the relationship will come under pressure. My DW and I agreed years ago when our DC were young that we should try not to go longer than a week without. And sometimes we have done it when one of us didn't really want to but we had a deal and we knew it was important not to allow it to slip off the agenda. Sex demonstrates love and commitment in a way which can't quite be matched by anything else. And that approach, which, before the hordes descend I would like to make clear is NOT sex on demand, has worked very well for us, we still have an active and fulfilling sex life after 30 years together. Sex, like other aspects of a relationship, requires compromise and a willingness to meet in the middle when differences become apparent.

I agree with you.

@immigrantsong @anothernick me too - i schedule sex with my husband because he wants it more than me. Like OP's DH says, I do it because i love and care about him, and because our marriage needs regular sexual intimacy to survive, like most people's.

But the OPs husband isn't willing to compromise on his side, he's not giving non sexual intimacy, he's not considering counselling. Why should the OP be the only one to compromise?

The mention of you spending ages arguing about it in the afternoon is ringing alarm bells. It shouldn't be an argument. You'll feel stressed and under pressure and even LESS like sex. Surely he must realise that.