Catch 22

[BudeBude]

Arggh so here goes. I've become increasingly unhappy with my marriage and one of the major issues is lack of sex. We are both only early thirties and its usually only an annual event. Raised it with her and she sees it as normal... for me its not. Being brutally honest, I don't think it was the most enjoyable - although as I have had very limited partners I have nothing to compare it against. I've become increasingly frustrated over the past three years as I want to start a family.. but I don't enjoy it and the pressure to conceive means I actually dread it...On the flip, she never really instigates either.

Clearly there are some fundamental issues in the relationship - I am trying to work out whether I work at it. I want better sex, but its a catch 22 situation.. how do I know if its better elsewhere when I have nothing to compare it with. The feeling of leaving because of this fills me with utter hate. I feel selfish, and a horrible person.

From what you've said it seems that she nags you about stuff an awful lot and complains you don't do things correctly all the time when you're just trying to help. It's not good for your mental health to live like that in the long term, I'm not suprised you have felt miserable and the romance has gone from the relationship. You need to find someone who makes you happy.

Just thought I would post a bit of an update.

Its been a difficult month, but maybe some progress. We've finally admitted that whilst we are in love, we are no longer sexually attracted to each other. She asked me upfront if I was sexually attracted to other people and I was honest. I asked her back and she said so wasn't either. We start couples counselling soon... we've dragged our heals for months - I wonder whether its because we couldn't admit to ourselves about a lack of sexual attraction.

I've carried on with the personal therapy but I'm finding it exceptionally challenging. I'm not saying that I am in an emotionally abusive relationship but at times I feel manipulated. I admit maybe I am emotionally naive and that I failed to put into place certain boundaries in the beginning. Therapist focuses a lot on childhood development defining on who I am today and so for example when we discussed the manipulation she would push the narrative into how maybe it felt like some of the abuse I got at school and that I dealt with that by closing up. And that if I am intimate with my wife then it will all be ok....

Sorry should have read.. she asked if I was sexually attracted to other people and I said yes. I asked her and she said yes as well

So sorry, Bude Bude - I’ve just found this thread buried.

How are you today?

Thanks Donna. Been better. (I actually posted another thread but I will come back to this one)

We continue to work through couples counselling. I'm pretty annoyed actually because I told the counsellor something in a single session that I assumed she would keep to herself. She didn't ask whether it would be ok if it was divulged. And then in a couple session she blurts out that its part of the problem....since the session my wife has been distant, upset and not talking to me. Once again I ask her if she wants to discuss it and she just says that she is upset. I know deep down that some if not all of it is due to what was talked about in the session.

I feel like I am being punished. Aside from that, I've been grappling with the conclusion that I'm no longer sexually attracted to my wife and I have admitted this. She says she is still attracted to me. I do feel that I am to blame... my minds all over the place, I haven't slept and see no way out.

Hi (I’m actually Serenada just had a name change!)

Well, perhaps it is good that it came out in the session although it seems remiss of your counsellor.

Is your wife engaging with the sessions? Do you think she is going through the motions or really working through things?

In one post above you said you asked your wife is she still attracted to you and she said no and then in your last post, she said she is.

You also said you feel manipulated.

I cannot help but feel that you are doing the work here (obv we only hear your side). You also talk about your guilt. And boundaries.

I think that guilt makes you prone to manipulation. Plus, boundary issues make you question yourself a lot (I know I do!).

No advice, Bude Bude just my sympathy.

i also am struck by your honesty and willingness to be thoughtful about this rather than impulsive. What strikes me is that maybe you are loyal to the idea of marraige? Myself and my husband split up a few years ago but have remained very close and he mentioned recently that he wouldve stayed in the marraige due to loyalty, but probably wouldve ended up very resentful. I thought that was insightful, that the concept of the commitment was so strong as to overshadow the emptiness and frustration. It wasnt an easy decision to make, we have kids and a long history, some counselling helped us stay respectful through it and we are better for it now. You only have one life, be true to yourself. Good luck

I’d start planning your exit if I were you.

So to explain that bit.. a while back my DW just came out and asked whether I'm sexually attracted to other people and I said yes. I asked her back and she also said yes. No maybe I'm interpret ring it incorrectly but I read that as "we are both no longer sexually attracted to one another"

What I have found very useful is the combination of solo therapy with couples. I had a single session, and my therapist just said "it seems that there is a lot of noise, but fundamentally the issue is that you are no longer sexually attracted to your wife and so every other issue becomes magnified". I agreed... my wife is dedicated to her job and works really hard. She earns a lot of money, but equally works late some evenings and often at weekends. Is this an issue, well maybe its not, maybe its actually a great quality. I make it an issue because of unspoken issues elsewhere in the relationship.

So fast forward to the couples session and I just came out with it and told my wife that I was no longer sexually attracted to her. It was hard, and a very difficult session. My wife was obviously upset that evening and the day after. But she was kind and said she didnt want to talk about it right now, but would at some point. That point came and we had a heart to heart. I said that I thought I had failed her, but she said that she was still sexually attracted to me. She said that it made her sad, but she was glad that I had been honest.

Within about 24 hours that sadness had dissipated and she was her usual self again. I cant read that... look I am not expecting her to be permanently sad but she seemed to bounce back quickly. So is she really still sexually attracted to me... is she telling me the truth.

Because we've been sexless for years... its not that one of us tries and the other rejects, its just neither of us want to. Another couples session coming up, so we go from there.

@heartlikepaper - Yes I do. The loyalty, and I think the sense of failure. And not wanting to hurt her

Its so hard, that feeling of failure, but its a brave and honest place to be facing up to problems rather than ignoring them or acting out. you will both hurt but there is growth in it too, hopefully the process will help your relationship one way or the other. its great that you can talk about it and get support here and in counselling.

Because we've been sexless for years... its not that one of us tries and the other rejects, its just neither of us want to.

This stands out to me. If you take away your ideas of what marriage should be, the roles you play, the things you have then there should be something still at the heart of it - some love, some affection, some desire.

I'm so low at the moment, we both are, but I am just finding it very difficult. The joint counselling is good because it's forcing the issue - its making us have to chat. I thought the "homework" from her would be like 'show affection' or something similar, but its not. Its often just a simple question that then makes us have to actually discuss.

We've been talking about the fact we have never had children given the lack of physical relationship. I've admitted that I buried my head in the sand and ran away from the issue. She has said that she had hoped that one day it would happen, and that one day I would pull it out of the bag and wait to the last minute. And that one day I would give her a child....Maybe I'm being over sensitive, but its made me feel awful as I just read that to mean that It was my issues that prevented us having children. And it was down to me to sort out and therefore my failure.

I read an update from a woman who was in a sexless marriage back in March and she left. I admire her bravery.

You admired her bravery?

Isn't that a pretty big clue about what you think of yourself and what you would like to do deep down?

Why are you prolonging it? Are you just scared? Because I think you are allowed to be.

If you want a relationship with someone you're attracted to, someone who finds you attractive, have a fun sex life, build a family with children, then you're not going to get it in this marriage.

You've both wallowed and procrastinated for years. Time doesn't stand still because you put yourself on pause. You need to decide what you want and move towards that.

Let the past go and move on before you're too old to get all the things you say you want.

FOG - fear, obligation, guilt are keeping you trapped here.

You should never live in FOG or base any life decisions motivated by these feelings - they are inauthentic and unsustainable. They create the “consent and resent” cycle when you agree to something because of FOG.

You should have no guilt that you have not given your wife a child in this marriage - you should feel guilt if you do bring a child into this emotionally inadequate / dysfunctional mess.

The only guilt that is relevant here is being cowardly, not biting the bullet - because that is wasting her time to get pregnant by another means (also at your frequency rate it’s never going to happen) - and being cowardly to your true authentic self and feelings. This is what has built up and is corroding your from the inside out.

The materialistic stuff is just stuff - stuff to stuff your real emotions. This is stuffing you feeling pain and truth but also it is stuffing and sense of joy, hope, peace - of feeling intense and alive.

You don’t have to work out your DW. You just need to give her the gift of you both moving on.

The sense of failure towards your DPs should be reversed - they failed you as a child - emotional neglect if not abuse has left a developmental deficit and wound that needs healing and growing. I am not surprised that your other two siblings have “failed” marriages - make yours better by not being a failed marriage with DCs.

You do want a family - but you know deep down with this partner it would be a charade. Set yourself free - spend a year getting your childhood shit resolved and look forward to happy RS and family in the next couple of years. There will be no shortage of suiters at your age, with no DCs as baggage and lots of cash. But if you don’t invest in the reflect, change, grow therapy process around your childhood wounds you will just repeat the cycle deeper and harder with your next RS and by then likely children involved who will get hurt.

Concentrate on your gut. Be true to you. Heal and grow.

It's either good or it isnt. Sex is obviously more passionate in the honeymoon stage. But once you get comfy it can become less exciting for some people.

I guess it's about what you both like. I haven't had a sex life for ages now. But when I did I probably wasn't as adventurous as some women. But I felt passionate and into it.

What is it you want in the bedroom? I like lots of kissing and i like missionary. Which sounds dull on paper. But I like the closeness and I don't mean just laying there like a sack of spuds. But I'd be rubbish in bed to the guy who wants the reverse cowgirl and a blowjob.

So ask yourself what's wrong? Is she confident. Are you wanting things she doesn't. Have you tried different ways to feel sexier together.

Remember it's rare for things to feel absolutely amazing and thrilling forever. It's a different type of love at this stage. If you went and had amazing sex with someone else would you be truly happy? What if they gave you sex but tended not to be very pleasant in other areas? Grass is always greener.

Also I have been curious myself in the past. 8 years into a relationship and I did go through a stage of wanting the thrill of someone else. But chances are most of those thrills don't last.

Be creative. Fantasize. Massage. Get her to wear a little baby doll dress. Shower together. You are child free, this is your time my friend

@Sssloou - You've hit the nail on the head. I am a coward. A good friend at work told me I was a coward once, and that is why my career has taken longer to progress than it should.

I'm sat in my office in tears (fortunately there is only one other person in).. I'm not sure why. I've felt low for a few days. My therapist is on holiday, so I've nowhere to turn. Looking back I've invested all my time over the past decade into furthering my career, and trying to build a life for us. Supporting my family an my wife, filling my time with things that improves our lifestyle. I've deprioritized my friendships and now its coming home to roost as I have no-one.

I agree on the comment about FOG - that's exactly what's is at play. I think I'm low because I've come to the conclusion that I will never be brave enough to leave. I just cant do it .. I cant imagine saying the words, I cant imagine how she will feel or the hurt that I will cause. Even if I did have the balls, I worry that I will live the rest of my life in guilt because I have ruined things for her. I look at my life when I am 60 thinking that I will still be guilty for my actions.

The relationship counselling has been hard. Its hard for me to hear because the counselor basically said that I was ambivalent, and that things would go round in circles unless I change. But I cant change...I cant help the way I feel, I cant help the fact I don't want to be intimate with my wife. I thought the relationship counselling might get to the bottom of why those feelings exist, and likewise why my wife doesn't want to have sex. But instead it just feels that the finger has been pointed at me and identified the problem, but not the source.

After the end of the last session, DW was in tears saying it would never be fixed. She was in a bad way for a couple of days, but then went back to normal. Our relationship counsellor then went on holiday... I said to my DW that maybe we should pause because I could see how hard it was on her..... and so its sort of fizzled out. We haven't had a session for three weeks now, and if I don't say anything then that will be that. My DW just sweeps it under the carpet.....I've told her some fundamental deal breaking admittances - which if she came on here, 100% of you would be saying to leave me. But nothing....

Some days I think am I being emotionally played a bit.. she wants the status quo, so it works in her favor when I see her upset and say we should pause on counselling. When she is sad she says she doesn't want to talk and I back off. A couple of days later she is back to normal self. I'm just in a constant low state.. I put on a brave face.

I know some of it is that deep down I feel that way because I'm coward who cant take the plunge, so I resent her for not even expressing concerns about the state of the marriage. She doesn't think that anything is wrong, yet she wants to start a family with me. When I asked her how the hell she expects that to happen when we don't have a physical relationship and she just said that she hoped one day "I would fix it.. ". She said that Im very last minute and that she just expected me to deliver the goods at the 11th hour.

Its just symptomatic of our relationship...we are doing up a house. Its a big commitment and means we don't have much spare time. She resents the fact that we never go out anymore, and during counselling she just said that she was bored of waiting and so would start doing stuff by herself. She is, but I feel guilty that that there is stuff to do. When we do go out now its been to see her family or her friends. I should really do what she does and start doing the fun things that I want to do, but I don't, and I just work. The other day I spent an hour doing something that I wanted to do for the first time in many months and she brought that up in counselling as an example of me not pulling my weight or helping her...

I feel so lonely. We have our anniversary coming up. She wants a night away, I'm dreading it.

@Ebonyxrosex The sex is bad and now non-existent. I don't think either of us are terribly confident. She wears the trousers in the relationship - it's always me being told what to do, or getting told its not good enough when I do it. I have tried to explain to her that the criticism eats away at me, and that I don't feel masculine... in fact I feel like a kid. We went bed on Sunday and she was having a go at me for

We were never that creative. She doesn't want to be. I tried and failed so went back to how it was. I don't think she was that sexual when I met her, she has become less so as we've progressed. I think I am, but not in this relationship. It feels a bit of me that I suppress for some reason Like I'm not truly being the person I could really be. Jeez.. thought of her wearing a doll dress. That ain't going to happen.

I am sorry nobody has been here to respond to you, Bude Bude. How are you now?

I think that you have to get out now. I really do. This is not good and does not seem to be improving. If this was reversed and you were a woman describing a relationship with a man, the responses would be very clear: do not have a child plus once you are out of the relationship, you would no longer fell this way.

I think this is crucial for you to understand. If you went to work for a new company doing a job you had happily done for years and it wasn't working out, you would say the problem was the new company, wouldn't you? That is the variable you can change. Your wife is that variable (sorry to be so crude). You are ok, you in relationships are ok, it is just this one that is problematic so the thing to consider changing is her.

Does that make any sense?

@Sssloou this advice is good but you are still thinking from quite an emotional state.

I think you need to sit down and actually plan your new life. Actually, write down things like what you will do on a Monday night. Give yourself things to look forward to. (treats, meals out, shopping, nights in, etc). You need to get excited about adult life again. It is all there for you it has just been drowned out. You are not actually making any changes at the moment, just writing things down but it does help. You need to get yourself out of this pit of being so angry with yourself that you are beating yourself up emotionally when all it does is actually keep you in this state - ultimately, that is actually a form of self indulgence as it gives you a justification for not taking the actions another part of you knows you should take. And this other part of you is telling you that, not us - your feelings are telling you something very loudly.

@DonnaQuixotedelaManchester thanks for your continued support. It means a massive amount to me (and everyone else)

I'm surviving. Physically I've been pretty bad over the past four months but I had bloods but I'm ok on that front. Chronic IBS, insomnia, exhaustion and dizzy spells.

It's really helped me put things in perspective I guess. My DW has been so keen to go places, eat out etc etc. I just keep on saying that I'm not feeling great and would prefer just rest and some relaxed walks. She just goes out without me now (well until lockdown kicked in)

Couples counselling has thrown up some interesting stuff. For example, we have been both working from home and I raised the point that often she will come into the bedroom when I'm working and sit and chat and mess around. I told her politely that I'd prefer if she didnt as I was busy. She walked off in a huff and a day of silence then happened. When I raised this with the therapist my DW turned and said that I was overreacting as on that occasion I was only checking emails and thays not real work. And then she added that I was a hypocrite as I had come into the bedroom she was working in. I was so shocked...I only ever went in to deliver her cups of tea, and I would tiptoe in and out.

The couples counsellor is saying that it's clear that it's me that is unsettled and until I break out of that loop then the relationship will stay as it is. And that the focus is sort of on me.

I'm not sure whether I'm reading too much into it or whether she is trying to give me a message or hint.

I'm wondering whether I should try and have a session with her on my own, maybe without my DW knowing ... and whether that would be allowed.

I'm getting clearer in my head what I want..

I would echo the pp and say just leave. Stop wasting so time and energy trying to resurrect something that was never there. Importantly, your wife will most probably be happier without you so don't feel guilty!
If you leave, you give her the chance of either finding someone that makes her happy or being content on her own. This is miserable for both of you. Best of luck. 💐