Catch 22

[BudeBude]

Arggh so here goes. I've become increasingly unhappy with my marriage and one of the major issues is lack of sex. We are both only early thirties and its usually only an annual event. Raised it with her and she sees it as normal... for me its not. Being brutally honest, I don't think it was the most enjoyable - although as I have had very limited partners I have nothing to compare it against. I've become increasingly frustrated over the past three years as I want to start a family.. but I don't enjoy it and the pressure to conceive means I actually dread it...On the flip, she never really instigates either.

Clearly there are some fundamental issues in the relationship - I am trying to work out whether I work at it. I want better sex, but its a catch 22 situation.. how do I know if its better elsewhere when I have nothing to compare it with. The feeling of leaving because of this fills me with utter hate. I feel selfish, and a horrible person.

Hi Bude,

Did you talk to her about the film yet? Is there anything else that has gone on that she feels you need to deal with? Something that she sees as at the root of everything else?

For her to turn thing son to you in such a way and for you to feel that she was trying to prompt you more, suggests to me that she thinks sthere is something.

Could you show her this thread?

Chat had. I'm not sure I would want to show her this. I tried to keep it about emotional feelings rather than practical "who takes the bins out"

I told her at times I felt afraid in the relationship. Just as in I feel like a child at school waiting to be told off. I said that translated into the bedroom and that the added stress of TTC when it's an annual event made me want to not do it anymore. I admitted that in reflection maybe I'd never really enjoyed it but had nothing to compare against.

We talked about how she complains about what I do - say leaving the sponge in the wrong place, and I just do it to rile her. Fundamentally I know that's not true. I do it subconsciously.. if I'm cooking and cleaning then I'm just trying to make my life as easy as possible as there is so much to do. I'm not trying to sputefully hurt her.

She believes that the key to resolving it it getting out more, she feels life is passing her by and we are not doing anything. All these other couples are having an amazing time out and a out enjoying life. I said I wanted to do less, as long work hours and other commitments meant I was continually exhausted. I also said that we dont have sex when we go on holiday so there is something more fundamental to it than just going out more.

One point that upset me was by saying what I've said, not happy about the lack of sex and closeness means I've trashed the previous years together. She also said that my words were making her about to be abusive. I've never mentioned the a word

Sorry .. *making her out to be abusive

She is not listening to you, is she? Mot hearing what is not being said but wants to be heard.

It sounds as though you are emotionally intimidated by her. I know that feeling of having to tiptoe around other people criticisms of you - when you can't do anything right. I actually think that kills love very quickly as you have to struggle not to be further crushed all the time.

I think that she needs to hear from you that you are serious and that, as it takes two to make a relationship, she needs to meet you where you are now, emotionally.

And I don't believe all these other couples are having such great relationships all the time. That's the public front people put on.

So basically you talked about your issues as a couple, and she talked about life passing her by because she doesn't go out much? Apples and pears my friend. I don't know if she actually is controling, but you guys definitely sound incompatible.

Does she need to feel cherished maybe?

She sounds bored, but that is not your responsibility. Does she go out and do things with friends on her own?

Your relationship sounds extremely passionless and mundane - not your fault, that’s not what I’m saying. But if she asks to go out more and you say you are too tired?

OP, I’m going to be blunt here, I think this relationship has run it’s course, there’s no energy in it, it’s not sexy, she moans about dish sponges.

I suspect she’s as bored as you. And no sex on holiday?! My god OP, you are not living a proper life. I’d end it and start over. Life is too short.

I think there is a lot of truth in that last post yes. I explained to her that maybe I'm not the most tactile or romantic of men, but I show my love in actions. Through hard work, trying to more than my fair share of the day to day stuff as well.

She is very bored. In fact she told me over and over again that exact word. Before lockdown she would go out a lot - some of the time with me and a lot of times with friends. If its something that I wont want to do then recently I've been passing on it and will just do something around the house. And that's why I disagree with the sentiment that going out more will fix the issue.

When we go on holiday we are people who like to experience and explore etc. Not sit on a beach kinda people. The question is... do we do that to stop ourselves ever having to address the elephant in the room or is it that we genuinely like it. Maybe she isint fussed about the lack of sex... I explained to her why I dont initiate but all she said was that she didnt feel romantic.

It feels like I want to explore and experience life's raw emotions and she wants more culture and shes happy with restaurants, theaters and cinema.

We are starting counselling asap - maybe a mediator will be able to unpick it in an independent fashion. I just feel really bad because Im the one that's asked for change and ive been told ive trashed the whole relationship.

And even though I feel relieved I had the conversation, I've been in tears all morning because shes clearly upset. I hate seeing her like this and just wish we never spoke about it

Her being bored is not your fault. And being honest and addressing the elephant in the room isn’t trashing the relationship. Honesty is the only way through all this.

This relationship isn’t giving you what you need. You seem to be looking for the deeper one ion that should come over time and it isn’t happening yet all your thoughts are about her feelings. I think you are still being too tough on yourself and she is putting all the responsibility for the relationship on you.

I would bet that she knows what you are going through emotionally and is holding back intentionally.

Why, I don’t know, but this isn’t right - she is not playing fair by the sounds of it and has got you feeling guilty for doing the very thing she prompted you to do (address the issue after the film).

It sounds like you’ve both been struggling for quite a while. It’s clear you care deeply about your wife, but how you feel is of equal importance.

A couple with no children should have time for exploring, beach and sex life on a holiday. One does not exclude the others.

You sound lovely but you come across like you are looking for a mummy. She's not your mummy. She's not your counsellor. She's your friend and lover. You sound like you are a bit wet (sorry) and lacking in male energy and male power. That power doesn't come from aggression, it comes from knowing who you really are. Some men find their power though weight training or sports. Others find it in perfecting a skill. What have you got going on?

A woman needs to feel like her man knows his own worth and can take control. It comes down to confidence. Can you find ways to be more confident, more assured?

I think you might have some unresolved childhood trauma going on. Continue exploring that through counselling.

Guineapig - I agree with most if not all of that. I spoke to a friend yesterday who agreed that I need more assertion. I have a lot of failures and setbacks in my life and yes on reflection this is a weak area. Not practically - but not to close down when confronted or feel that I can't say how I feel

I don't think I am lacking in male power / energy as such - but maybe more male emotional strength. I play a lot of sport, which I'm good at. I have loads of hobbies and interests but most of them are things you do by yourself.

Re childhood trauma - in a nutshell I don't think my parents ever fully met my needs. Essentially they were unavailable for a large part of my life and continue to do so.

I have a lot of failure and setbacks in my life fe.

Are you sure they are failures? Can you say here what they are and see if there is another way to look at them?

Are you thinking that if this relationship finishes then that is another failure?

What I mean is you can give yourself that emotional strength - by looking positively at your self. If you see the past as littered with failure then I think you are going to cling on to anything remotely working in the present and rely on it to give you more than it can to compensate for all these negative, legacy feelings.

I hope that makes sense

I have never understood why people stay in relationships which make them deeply unsatisfied/unhappy, while wringing their hands about the fact they would like to end this relationship but “can’t” because they are scared of feeling like a selfish, mean person.

To people of all genders - grow some balls. You have one life. This is yours.

By continuing to think this way, you do realise that makes literally everyone who decides to end a relationship “selfish & mean” because presumably the other person did not want the relationship to end.

Also if you’re so worried about being seen as selfish - then stay! But of course,that isn’t what they want - they crave permission from 3rd party random people on the internet to tell them “yes it’s ok to break up if you’re unhappy! It doesn’t make you selfish.

In reality it IS a selfish act - but only if you are selfish in every aspect of your life & continually as a pattern, do you become a “selfish person”.

So own your feelings, decide what you really want out of life & them make a decision & stop worrying & stressing about “what people will think” or if this will make you a mean/nasty person. Because you know if you really were selfish & self centred by nature, you would have been out of there long ago.

It is not normal to have a sexless relationship unless both partners on board or health issues

& yes, most people in a regular healthy relationship are wanting to have sexual relations with their partner on a more regular basis.

Once a year - that is a housemate / close friend at best. You know what you have to do, just do it!

I don’t intend to sound harsh, I just can’t really tolerate people who worry so bloody much about what society thinks of them or stressing about feeling “bad or mean”. I don’t trust people who always want to portray an image of being “the good one”.

I guess in my career there are times when I have fallen short... been promised that job promotion .. the carrot is dangled, I bust a gut and then they never deliver. I'm not assertive enough to walk them into the room and tell me to pay me what i'm worth. A stint as being self employed failed.. I realised that I need structure to work in. In sport, am I good but not always right up there. I appreciate that these are self imposed judgments of success.. its something I need to work on.
And yes... I feel myself heading for another failure. I know I am not a failure .. .I have a good job and a six figure salary. But look at Liam Tredwell... sometimes its hard to see the positives. Yes ... if this relationship ends this would be a massive failure. I dont want to start thinking what my parents would feel - clearly they wont tell me how they feel, they never do. But they would have raised a family where all of there children have failed relationships.. the guilt of doing that to them is immense.

She said last night that having what I have told her, she doesn't see a way back from here. I explained that with counselling together we can work through our differences but she just kept saying that I've trounced all thats gone before and nothing will be the same again, no matter what happens.

I studied the PGCE at a very competitive university. One of the things that I learned there was that success and failure are all about how you frame things.

For example, I had a horrible incident in my classroom and wrote about it in my self evaluation report. The feedback I received really made the difference in how I saw myself.

If you are looking for th eend result and not the stages that get you to the end result, you will always consider yourself a failure. If instead, you look at everything as a step to where to you really want to be and each epidsode as a learning experience it really does make a difference to your emotions and it is from that place you make decisions and judge yourself - by your efforts not your failures.

So, if I decide to cook a meal for friends and it turns out disastrous - I am not a failure - my cooking or organisation needs work but I take the jokes and criticisms on the chin (laughing at myself and not taking me too seriously), I realise cooking is not my forte but I have other strengths (managing my ego so that I know I don't have to be good at everything) and I decide next time I'll do it differently (or not at all). My point is that if you see yourself as a failure you never give yourself a chance to succeed. It used to be that such thinking was seen as self indulgent, too as the world id full of people who have failed and picked themselves back up.

If you looked at your past issues and saw them differently, without the blame and failure tag but as experiences then you will feel differently about yourself and get back some of that emotional strength (full of positive, strong energy). It is from a position of emotional strength, not emotional emptiness (full of negative energy left over from reviewing the past as failed) that you make your good, positive decisions.

In my humble opinion.

Years ago, i went through a real crisis of confidence. My younger brother( who did much, much better than me study/work wise) took me aside and said 'you were the first person to go to college and broke the path for me to go and do all the study and travelling I have done'. So, whatever you view as a failure because of a narrow set of criteria can always be viewed by a different lense. Your bosses might have wanted a yes man which is a limitation on you - your best is yet to come.

And you are only in your 30s????

Come on, think positive!!!

In your 30’s with a six figure salary, no children, and you seem a nice, cultured, easy-going bloke?

Ffs DON’T have kids (this actually seems a hidden blessing) and look to splitting/dividing up assets amiably.

I wouldn’t rush into another relationship but equally you’re not going to struggle meeting someone new who you’re more attuned to.

This relationship seems dead in the water, neither of you are happy - I presume your wife is financially doing well too and you’ll both still have a great quality of life if you separate.

If she likes going out and doing cultured stuff and feels you’re holding her back, as a single woman on a good income she’ll be able to do all that. And maybe meet someone she does feel passionate about - maybe she needs someone a bit more outwardly emotional/dominant. But it’s not your problem. A lot of women are very happy with someone with a solid career who is reliable and maybe a little less pushy - you don’t need to change yourself.

I get the feeling you BOTH settled for each other due to security/material goals/keeping up appearances and hadn’t matured into adults emotionally when you got together.

Yea wife earns similar to me. I suggested her scaling back work to ease the pressure a bit as she doesnt enjoy her work that much, but pays well. She travels alot with work, overnight stays etc. Early starts to catch a train. She often works on weekends as well. When I suggested scaling back, I was then accused of trying to turn her into a housewife. I've learnt that she values her independence - kept her name, we have separate bank accounts etc, everything split 50:50.

So I guess one thing I can't figure out is that I've raised an issue (lack of sex) .. perhaps clumsily at first, but been very clear over the past few months that the lack of sex is killing me and these are the reasons why I don't want to have more sex (struggling with the pressure to conceive when its an annual event, something missing emotionally) etc. And her response is that we need to go out and do more things / meals, weekends away etc.

But the more I think about it the more I feel this isn't the solution .. this is more what she wants. She says that she doesn't feel romantic when at home because shes not dressed up, its not a sexy place when you're in your cleaning clothes etc. But then we've been on holidays and it didn't happen, we went out for valentines day dressed up and it didn't happen.... I know, writing this and reading this back its clear she isn't telling me the truth here.

So if your husband said that we needed to improve our sex lives.. what would be your response?

TBH I think your wife is just hoping that you are going to leave and she doesn't have the guts to initiate it herself . Don't stay in a relationship like this . I've been there and looking back now I think "what a waste of time " . My ex H was emotionally stunted and I think that led us into a no sex marriage . Sometimes relationships just run their course and I think yours has . You have a long life ahead of you - find someone who is mad about you and you are mad about ! You're not selfish and horrible - it's just life !

I honestly thinkbyou are fixating on gixing smth thatvis not fixable. You are emotionally and sexually incompatible. You are trying to work on yourself with counselling, she can't be bothered to make any effort ( at elast from what you are writing). And by effort I don't mean dressing up to go out. I mean let's have a glass, talk openly, try to relax and build some intimacy.

@BudeBude

I think rather than trying to fix the relationship or try to get inside your wife’s head, you should focus your counselling on why you think you don’t deserve to be happy?

Work on your self esteem and why you’re choosing to stay in a situation where you think you’re not loved or not wanted? Does it feel emotionally safer being unhappy?

How much dating/sexual experience have you had?

Seriously in your 30s - intelligent and polite with a good job, playing sport, no children - you’ve got the world at your feet and a lot of life left - you’ll be seen as a good catch in dating. And you deserve to be happy.

No dating or sexual experience really other than the current.

Thanks for all of the advice. Yes, I have some serious 'looking at myself' to do. I think it feels safer being unhappy because that is what I am used to. I spoke to my parents a while back - opened up and said I wasn't coping, in tears. I haven't heard a word from them since. I appreciate that they don't deal with emotional situations at all... but just a text to ask how I am. I'm on my knees and my own parents don't seem to be bothered or love me. Their response last year when I told them I was getting help was 'please don't end up in an asylum'

It took me a while to admit to my wife that I was getting help. I have no idea why. Recently I'm sure she thinks I'm having an affair - I don't feel comfortable speaking in the house to friends or counselors so I leave and try and find some space. Its turned into endless questioning ... which in turn makes it worse. I want space to think and breathe and I am told that I am purposefully avoiding her. Sometimes I just need someone to speak to for reassurance. I think its hard admitting to her what I see is a perceived weakness.