Catch 22

[BudeBude]

Arggh so here goes. I've become increasingly unhappy with my marriage and one of the major issues is lack of sex. We are both only early thirties and its usually only an annual event. Raised it with her and she sees it as normal... for me its not. Being brutally honest, I don't think it was the most enjoyable - although as I have had very limited partners I have nothing to compare it against. I've become increasingly frustrated over the past three years as I want to start a family.. but I don't enjoy it and the pressure to conceive means I actually dread it...On the flip, she never really instigates either.

Clearly there are some fundamental issues in the relationship - I am trying to work out whether I work at it. I want better sex, but its a catch 22 situation.. how do I know if its better elsewhere when I have nothing to compare it with. The feeling of leaving because of this fills me with utter hate. I feel selfish, and a horrible person.

It sounds to me like your wife wants to be “wooed”

And that is where I come unstuck. It's down to me to woo her. Thats after I've done the chores, the cooking all the endless DIY jobs and the gardening. Running around going to restaurants and theatres, cinema etc (which I usually fall asleep in anyway). She said a while back the only way out is counselling but she hasnt done anything since .. Ive researched a number of possibilities, contacted them and released a lot have long waiting lists etc.

When I raise the issue of splitting of duties she just says that its because I take too long at cleaning. I've stopped complaining now and just do it because its easier.... I say white lies just to make my life easier

is it possible the chores can wait & go our? How messy can this house possibly be?

You sound like because you see no point in going out & dislike social activities out of duty that it’s not important - but it appears your wife is literally telling you what she want most from you to fix this, but you refuse to do it.

You do sound “wet” and boring & old but still actually quite young! Can you not visit a museum, grab lunch out & sit on a park bench, just something, anything ! You sound defeatist & pretty unromantic really.

The thing is you sound either at fault for not even wanting to do anything with your wife outside of stay at home & do chores OR perhaps this relationship has simply run its course & you both are trying to flog a dead horse.

Only you can know, but I can see why your wife wants someone not so vacant to come r with.

The thing is am quite the homebody in my mid-late 30s so while your way of life would work, sometimes it’s still nice to get out & about, visit a local new town or village market... know it’s tough with covid lockdown, but then it can also make simple things more grand. Just doing the grocery shopping could be bonding time!

But you’re not making any kind of romantic effort & yet expecting to have this satisfying sex life when really, it’s a sexless relationship & you may be better off coming to some “arrangement” together.

You make annual sex sound like a bothersome chore. It sounds like a very emotionally unsatisfying set up for all. She sounds lonely & bored, you sound defeatist & petulant about lack of a sex life without working on the very things she has asked of you.

To highlight the lack of Romance - you characterise spending time with you wife as “rushing around going to restaurants and movies you fall asleep in”

So you think romance is just “dinner and a movie” - literally the most cliche, unimaginative date. Romance & spending time together comes in many forms. You sound like you’re just not in love with your partner at its core

If you don’t like restaurants and movies that’s ok but surely you have some hobby, or pursuit you have a keen interest or passion for! What makes you “you” ? Why have you two picked each other out of everyone else?

Find some fire in your belly ! If you were in love & in lockdown you’d find a way to express love & show gratitude for each other.

You sound like you’re scared of not completing housework. Can the chores not say “stuff it” one weekend day & do something together ? Is the house really in such a state of shambles ? Gardening is a nice hobby but not always a necessity. Could you visit a local plant nursery & pick some new plants for your garden?

Aussies will know Bunnings warehouse hardware chain - Bunnings could be a fun romantic trip together if you are in love!

Sorry to clarify maybe you like old military things or looking a birds I don’t know... can’t you at least invite your wife to tag on something you enjoy doing ?

Thanks @vikingwife for all this. A lot to digest.

We've been having a lot of work done on the house - couple of extensions, so its just constantly dirty. She is complaining that its unliveable in...I'm trying my best, but it always feel likes its not good enough. Anyway

Yes I do a lot of things - mainly sport related. I just find myself going round in circles ... she says that I only do that as she knows it's not what she can do. She hates exercise. So my joys and loves are to her simply ways of not having to interact with her.

But on that point ... "your'e just not in love with your partner at the core" .. I've admitted in CBT that the relationship to me feels more familial yes... but to actually admit to my wife that maybe I'm not in a deep intimate romantic love with her.... I just have no clue. Where do you even begin. It would destroy her life and live with that for ever.

How you getting on, BudeBude?

Not great I guess. Just a lot of things weighing on my mind. Everyone's been really helpful and I've taken everything on board.

I think I'm probably scared that I've come to realise that there is an element of truth in the comment that at the core is a lack of deep and intimate love. Once I process that and sure that's the case, then I need to be honest. I'm just scared of how that conversation will go and what the aftermath would be. I dont think there is any coming back from that. I would hurt someone that I truly care for and love, just not in a passionate intimate way anymore.

I just wish she would be more open and honest with me. A pp said I should stop trying to get inside her head, but I find it hard.

Keep talking on here. It can’t be easy but I think if you have a strong sense of the kind of relationship you do want and feel you are capable of building, then you owe it to yourself to aim for that.

I’d have to write it down in some sort of letter just to get it clear in my own mind.

What would she do if you said, babe, let's pack a picnic and head out to wherever today?
I think she wants you to take charge a bit. Just make a plan, do some stuff together.

She sounds bored.

Thank you for keeping on talking. Don't throw away a good relationship if it can be saved by making a bit of effort in the taking-charge department.

Hi OP,

I really feel for your situation, you sound like a lovely, kind and caring person to me. It is rare to find someone so willing to look at themselves, admit their perceived faults and want to get counselling and work on themselves.
Sadly I do think that your relationship may well have run it’s course and you are fundamentally different people. My suggestion would be to go your separate ways and find someone who is more compatible. You both still have a chance to have children which you really want, maybe your wife isn’t actually that into the idea so please don’t waste any more time trying to work things out. Imagine if you had children with all your current difficulties and disagreements, the added stress and pressure would likely tear you both apart. Much better to separate now and start again.
Continue with the counselling, build your confidence and try and stay positive.
Good luck.

Well, @BudeBude how are you getting on?

Two weeks have passed.. no change. Just feels like we are back how we were and nothing has been said. One minute she says she loves me and then she calls me dumb for not doing something in the kitchen in the way that she thinks it should be done... I do struggle with the concept of whether someone who truly loves someone would say that.

I'm continuing with the CBT - I'm becoming more assertive. I tell her straight up when she's upset me as in the above case. She did eventually apologise but it still hurts.

We spoke four weeks ago about couples counselling. I've been spending a lot of time trying to find someone I like. A lot are busy and its hard and time consuming. No interest from her .. she hasnt mentioned it since. I spent a few days at a friends and the communication between us was always just transactional. I tried to ask her how she was feeling given that I was away and she just said fine. "Im ok"

Feels like im stuck in mud, and its down to me to decide. If i do nothing then we will be in the same place in 10 years. If I do something then most likely it will be painful. Feels like a no win situation

I'm sorry to hear that Budebude. You sound like you are really trying. If things don't work out between you, at least you'll know you tried. I think the world is crazy right now and a lot of people are acting differently to what they normally do out of hidden anxieties. So please don't make rash decisions about your marriage, even if it seems like an option right now.

Hey BudeBude,

What would she do if you said it was counselling or you were going to leave? Does she really know or believe the depth of your feelings?

I read this and felt such sadness for you. You sound like an amazing man, and one most women on here I'm sure would love to have.
I read it and started thinking about your childhood and wether it was something that would impact. I kmow this applies to most people in one way or another but I read with I terest and when I read what you'd said about your dad I understood.

I broke my 4yr relationship off 2 weeks ago. I'm so upset still but like you felt I was going round in circles. I looked into why my ex wouldn't address a certain situation..sometimes you can be the nicest person and you'll be fighting a lost battle.
Like my ex unless he's willing to help himself then he will continue to not get what he wants (as will the other person) it takes 2 to make a relationship work and unless your wife is willing to address you'll just make yourself unhappier trying.

Hey @BudeBude

Any change at all? I hope things are progressing the way you want.

Nope. The issue is there is no progress I guess.

From my side, I continue with the CBT. I do sometimes find that the therapist is devil's advocate. Often I will explain a situation and then she will turn around and try to suggest that the issue lies with me. I'm sure a lot of them do - and I guess her job is to improve 'me' and not somebody else. But its making me a bit apprehensive of each session, and sometimes I feel like just saying I've run out of things to say. The therapist is right in saying that until we both go to couples counselling together then I'm stuck.

I can see that my wife is getting increasingly stressed and down. Work is hard for at the moment, and lockdown has had an impact. She was very sociable but I've noticed that she isin't bothering to do or meet anyone at the moment. I'm being more active in trying to get our and do stuff. She is working crazy long hours, and it just feels like we are back at the beginning. The old life that I don't want to live, where its just all work the whole time.

But I admit, that I struggle to enjoy the time we d have with her. We had a bit to drink on the weekend, and she tried to be close but I don't want it. I'm just bitter I guess and those thoughts (that im bitter towards my wife) then makes me feel more upset and unhappy to her.

I realise writing this that its an absolute mess..... On the counselling, the other day she just came out and said "we need to go"... this comes after a month of not even mentioning it. And so I said that I had been looking for suitable people to work with etc, finding out availability etc. I explained that I had been trying to progress it and she just starts arguing that its not about blaming etc... So I back down and then nothing else is said. :(

I am sorry to hear that. It sounds as though the love has gone from you now because of everything that has gone on?

That's the wierd thing I guess... nothings really gone on. You read all these other posts about prostitutes, tights in cars and hidden cameras. Nothings really wrong, but nothings really right ... so why do I feel like this.

Some days I do feel love, but some days I feel flat, alone, scared and afraid. Today was the latter. Work is busy for her at the moment... like 15-16 hour days. I've cooked and done all the cleaning today. I finished work at 6pm and have just tidied up and she will be up for a few more hours working.

And I just ask myself why. We dont need the money, we have a very comfortable life but any suggestion of her cutting back on work is met by an accusation that I want her to be a housewife.

When we cleaned the house at the weekend we split it half half. At the end she went round the rooms I had done and ran her finger round to find bits of dust I had missed. I'm not doing it on purpose, I'm sure I could find fault with her cleaning but I dont because I learn to live with the concept of compromise. Dinner tonight wasnt up to scratch as it wasnt what she wanted.... it wasn't filling.

I read somewhere that men would put up with all this if they were getting sex. I do agree that in my mind I cant work out why over the past two years this is now become an issue. Especially as we have been together a long time. I wonder whether it's the realisation that we wont have a family now... I'm not sure I've got to the bottom of my feelings yet

I've cooked and done all the cleaning today. I finished work at 6pm and have just tidied up and she will be up for a few more hours working.

an accusation that I want her to be a housewife.

At the end she went round the rooms I had done and ran her finger round to find bits of dust I had missed

Dinner tonight wasnt up to scratch as it wasnt what she wanted.... it wasn't filling.

If this was the other way around, and you were a woman talking about your husband everyone would scream 'leave' as you sound downtrodden, worn down, exhausted - both mentally and emotionally, and as though your lives are about 'function' - not joy, love, laughter, happiness or fun.

What do you see for your future, OP? I'd like to imagine mine as sunny, full of smiles and laughter with music, festivals, picnics, the easy playful companionship of friends and family.

You have got to see that, somewhere in your future.

That's an easy one. I hope my future is something akin to The Darling Buds of May. (You may be too young to remember)

I want to be Pop Larkin, sat around a lovely weathered table in an orchard on a hot summers evening with a large family all enjoying the familial unit. Eating good food that I've cooked. That's all I really want. It's to have a family and see them grow up. I want to take my son to his first rugby match, or my daughter to riding lessons. I want them to be part of my life, learn from me and challenge me in the same way I did with my Dad. I would forgo happiness for material wealth.

It's truly catch 22. I'm scared of having kids now because I'm not sure its right/ what both parties want. But I want a family...

Can you see your wife in that picture?

@BudeBude

That's an easy one. I hope my future is something akin to The Darling Buds of May. (You may be too young to remember)

I want to be Pop Larkin, sat around a lovely weathered table in an orchard on a hot summers evening with a large family all enjoying the familial unit. Eating good food that I've cooked. That's all I really want. It's to have a family and see them grow up. I want to take my son to his first rugby match, or my daughter to riding lessons. I want them to be part of my life, learn from me and challenge me in the same way I did with my Dad. I would forgo happiness for material wealth.

It's truly catch 22. I'm scared of having kids now because I'm not sure its right/ what both parties want. But I want a family...

You can't have that vision in this relationship. And the longer you stay in this relationship, the longer it will be until you might be able to build that future with someone else you're genuinely happy with. And for her to build a future with someone else she is genuinely happy with. You're making each other unhappy. Neither of you means to, it sounds like you've both had the realisation this isn't working, can't quite work out why so it isn't being confronted and so the tension is suffocating you both and making you both on knife edge all the time. That isn't what love is. Being unhappy and so desperately sad is reason enough to split up, sometimes relationships end like that. With a quiet dignity instead of a massive bust up. Sometimes the latter is easier in a way. But one of you needs to acknowledge and accept its time to move on, for both your sakes.

Even the fact you reference Darling Buds of May and immediately say everyone is probably too young for it - you're young too! You're in your early thirties! And you're a man, so time is on your side when it comes to family starting years. You sound utterly defeatist and I don't blame you, or her really, you aren't good together. And remember that if a counsellor isn't working for you then you're well within your rights to visit others and see how you get on. Finding a counsellor right for you is a bit like dating, rather than an authoritarian vs problem child dynamic and that took me years to realise. This isn't living OP, you're treading water and there's more to life than this.