Catch 22

[BudeBude]

Arggh so here goes. I've become increasingly unhappy with my marriage and one of the major issues is lack of sex. We are both only early thirties and its usually only an annual event. Raised it with her and she sees it as normal... for me its not. Being brutally honest, I don't think it was the most enjoyable - although as I have had very limited partners I have nothing to compare it against. I've become increasingly frustrated over the past three years as I want to start a family.. but I don't enjoy it and the pressure to conceive means I actually dread it...On the flip, she never really instigates either.

Clearly there are some fundamental issues in the relationship - I am trying to work out whether I work at it. I want better sex, but its a catch 22 situation.. how do I know if its better elsewhere when I have nothing to compare it with. The feeling of leaving because of this fills me with utter hate. I feel selfish, and a horrible person.

Honestly it doesn't really sound like you are very compatible. And I think women will generally take a more pro-active role when/if they want children. Again, at least you are trying to better yourself with counseling , whereas she's barely looking at the anger angle online. Yes, you cannlove someone in a familiar way and not love them as a partner I think. You still find qualities in them, just not the qualities you need to have in a partner. It's a friends kind of love I suppose. I suggest you really think about what you want, you are both still young enough to find someone more compatible. Althouhb the thread was innitialy about sex life, I think your problems run deeper.

I understand her family obligations but I would have thought that, under those circumstances, she would have turned to you for someone to talk to, off load on to, etc

It sounds to me, from what you have said, that you are not high on her list of priorities and that she is focusing on her 'self' at the moment. she may feel that she has good reason for this, particularly in light of her loss but I do think you would feel included emotionally in that and yet you don't.

I don't think you are being unreasonable here. You do have a fair expectation to feel loved in a relationship when you are holding out that part of yourself to another.

I think you need to look at your life outside of the relationship. Friends, work, hobbies your family. Look at the things that sustain and support you. With more engagement in them, you might be able to step back from the immediate stuff in your relationship and see things clearly - either your partner has checked out for good or is going through something temporary to deal with something upsetting her. Once she has resolved this, you might both be able to get the relationship back on track but I think you need to get emotional, real world support from trusted friends (not necessarily telling them anything, just making sure you timetable in lots of stuff for yourself).

Look after yourself.

One last question Serenada - we are opposites in the fact that she has a huge amount of friends - a lot of who are male and she has close family members. We've started having arguments because I guess I've become a bit depressed over the past 6 months. I dont really want to go out much - I used to meet her family and friends most weeks - I just dont want to anymore. She has just said that she will go by herself

I dont have that many friends. Most of mine are through work, or mutual wife friends. I dont have a close relationship with anyone in my family. It makes me depressed writing this I know. I acknowledged with the relate counselor that I needed to change that. Its a bit hard with lockdown but I'm going to give it my best shot. I've started CBT to try and deal with my unhappiness - luckily I can get this through work.

I worry that this will be the straw that breaks the camels back. We both have demanding jobs... if I devote time to building my friendships and she spends time with her friends then this will drive us apart not together.

One final point Re the baby... I said to her that even though she told me she thinks now she does want kids, but in the past she didnt. I said that I think she is unsure... and she replied that she shouldnt have to beg me to do it..

I think joint counselling is the only way forward. I've suggested it on a few occasions. TBH, i thnen didnt mention it in the hope that she might ask what was happening with it. I'm going to bite the bullet and just get the ball rolling

Thanks everyone, hopefully I can post back one day with some progress

This...

I worry that this will be the straw that breaks the camels back. We both have demanding jobs... if I devote time to building my friendships and she spends time with her friends then this will drive us apart not together.

nd this...

One final point Re the baby... I said to her that even though she told me she thinks now she does want kids, but in the past she didnt. I said that I think she is unsure... and she replied that she shouldnt have to beg me to do it..

That's an awful lot of stuff, there. If you start doing things for you to help with your depression, you think the relationship might fall apart? And then to go to thinking about a baby?

It sounds as though your life centers around her and you are happy once she is happy. If you are depressed then I think you might start with doing somke things that make you feel better about you, in general. But you holding back in order to keep the relationship together isn't fair on you.

I think you need time out before you make any decisions - 6 months to see about the CBT and getting some friends for yourself through a hobby.

For the record, you have spoken honestly and clearly here and the fact that you can express your feelings and thoughts so tenderly makes me think that you are highly tuned in emotionally but that you have accepted being in a relationship with someone who doesn't respond to that.

I think you should give yourself some breathing space and go easy on yourself - find some fun in life and it may bring out a different side to her, who knows, but you are not treating yourself well, here and something has made you close down to your own emotions.

Chat away anytime - I am supposed to be writing my thesis atm and will be on here looking for any excuse for a distraction!

My depression definitely has a very specific nature - ie, its come about because of the realization that the relationship might not be what I thought it was. For years I have probably knew that the sex was an issue, but I bottled it up hoping that it may resolve itself. In retrospect that was a little silly. Other than that I was generally happy with the material things like houses, holidays and work. I started to confide with a few people and realised that something was a miss... I think I knew deep down something was wrong but clearly I was good at hiding it from myself.

Then something just snapped and it spiraled - Ive never been one to cry and I found myself breaking down the whole time. I thought a lot of it was stress from work and life - but the thought of a failed marriage just ate away at me. Both my siblings have been through failed marriages with messy kid issues etc. I just thought my parents, friends would think I'm a failure. I eventually limped into the GP and he got me into CBT. I've been doing it for a couple of months. I've got to the stage where the guilt and fear have started to wane a little, I think some of the guilt is still there.

I was packed of to boarding school at the age of 7. Through CBT i've realized that a consequence of this was I learnt very early on to have an emotional thick skin and just get on with things and brush unhappiness to the side. I hated it for 5 years, but by my teens loved it.

I think this is relevant because I chose a partner, perhaps because it was what I was used to - relatively closed emotionally. Fast forward and now I crave something deeper. I just need to work out if thats possible in my current relationship and maybe then the sex will come back ..

I think you are being so hard on yourself. Why is it Ok for your siblings to divorce but if you do, its a failure?

I think this is relevant because I chose a partner, perhaps because it was what I was used to - relatively closed emotionally.

This makes sense to me. I think we all do this to a degree.

It sounds as though emotionally you are open and honest - you have come on to a women's website which was a brave thing to do.

On reflection overnight as well I've realised it's not only the sex that I have no clue as what's normal. It's also elements of the relationship.

I often feel the relationship is a bit mother and child. I'm often nagged when I don't do things correctly. Just this morning I've been told off for two things... just little things like not putting the washing up sponge on its little tray but leaving it on the drying rack etc. I never criticise.. I try really hard to overlook all the things she does and just ignore them. I've grown to be fearful, and this extends to trying to express feelings or emotions.

Can or should I expect her to change?

Oh just for context..she is my only ever relationship and we've been together since mid twenties

You know, if this was reversed, everyone on here would say this was controlling behaviour.

Would you consider going to a counsellor just for yourself? I don’t know about Relate and how it works but when you say things like this and that you don’t have close friends and your wife’s social scene was your social scene it all seems very one sided. That may work for some but you don’t seem to have anyone on your side, for you - like a friend.

to boarding school at the age of 7.
AHA!

Yes, look up "boarding school syndrome" and go get counselling for yourself.

I'm probably projecting a bit so take that as you will ...but it sounds like your own inner, emotional and social life is what you'd like to grow and feed and water, the marriage issues are kind of a knock on effect.

Read up on stuff about how brain development in children works, especially with regards to attachment.

Don't end up like my Dad, who was materially ok, but deprived of love as a kid. I'm not sure he ever really loved anyone but his dogs. He went from nanny to boarding school to uni to one wife then another, and I'm not sure what he really wanted out of life or if he ever even knew himself :(.

Late 30s is young young young!, & you have more than half your life to go.

Question: How much of who you are now is really you and how much is an adaptation to circumstances where it was a bad idea to show tenderness, affection, vulnerability or strong feelings and the safe thing was to keep the rules and make yourself useful?

And ... what was your wife's childhood like?
Regardless of whether the marriage lasts or not, she's a fellow human being who deserves respect and consideration as much as any of us, and you've known each other for a long time. Might be worth going out for a walk together every day - and talk.
A friend of a friend once said their marriage counsellor made them talk about their early lives and for the first time they really understood each other. Said the marriage wouldn't have survived without that.

Good luck. It's not too late. I changed a lot from 30 to 50, change is possible, you can be happier.

I also wonder if it would make a difference to you to know that the role model you have in your head, or the idea of the man you are supposed to be is an image projected outwards but not who the man inside can possibly be - I think a lot of men who project successful images and appear to have it all will have realised this at some point and, whether through counselling, a sharp shock to their health, an ultimatum from their partner, whatever, will have sought advice, counselling, support through many sources - that’s how they became the strong person you see.

Your parents might be the old stoic types (as are mine) but this is a different time with different expectations and demands. You work with where you are now and what is to hand.

I bet you would be very surprised to know how many men feel like you do in relationships and talk to their sisters and friends.

Oh boy... loads going on here. It's funny you say dont end up like my Dad. I dont want to end up like my Dad. My grandfather was a horrible man. When my dad was a young teenager, his mum died of cancer. The children were never allowed to visit in hospital. On the day she died, my grandfather announced it at dinner and said that there will be no tears and life continues. My grandfather had affairs etc. My Dad hates emotional connection. He is utterly resentful to my mum...she got taken very ill and he rings me up and is laughing about it.. he never addresses issues, masks it with humour etc. But hes a good guy and stuck with it through thick and thin. But I dont want to be him.

I'm not the man I want to be. I want to be warm, kind and considerate and loving. But I find it hard in my current relationship. I feel like I have two personalities at the moment ... one where i dont want to be like my Dad and that my feelings matter and the second being one where I just stick my head down and be like my Dad and battle through. My wife enjoys the fact I do a lot of things around the house and allow her time to see friends etc. She wants a bit more affection but I think deep down she could probably survive without the sex for the rest of her life.. but she once admitted to me that she was rampant at uni and would skip lectures for sex.

I never want to hurt her or be seen as a horrible person but at the moment I just see a dark tunnel with no light at the end. We've accumulated quite a bit of assets (houses) .. I would happily walk away from it all and give it to her just for my sanity. But I worry I'm just not thinking straight

A dark tunnel with no light at the end sounds to me like you are buried so deep. You need to come up for air.

No problem can’t be solved. No problem is new. Something needs to change, for you, and for your marriage.

I think you need to step back from your ideas about how you want things to be and honestly assess how things actually are. You are allowed to be stoic about somethings and open about others - we are all just a work in progress! No one gets it all right!

I think you should look at all your positive qualities and start from there. You sound like a good person. That matters. But you have lost sight of the fact that you are good and are doing everything right and not getting results so you do have to look critically outside of yourself, rather than inside I think. Sometimes we internalise so much from outside it is hard to distinguish what is coming from us and what is just a reaction from us, to external stuff.

I think your whole world for so long has revolves around around your wife and you trying not to be the man your father is that inside you have started to lose ‘you’. You need to get ‘you’ back. And make your big life decisions from that position.

And , btw, I really am not a professional in this field - so please take my words as kindly meant. I am only going by what you are saying here but I have no right to advise you on what to do. This is what I would say to my brother if he said these things to me.

@Budebude

Go be free my good man. But learn to be a little selfish and put yourself first. Go and learn who you are. You've not experienced enough to truly know that yet, which is why you've slept walked into your current life.

And when I say ‘you’ I mean the you who likes cricket as opposed to football - who watches documentaries not films - the kind of things that are unique to your tastes, likes and wants on a personal level. Shifting your focus to those things can often given you a little better perspective on your emotions as it takes your mind off that intense emotional, inner eye or focus and puts it back on something external and that puts a distance between your head and your feelings, which can give clarity.

And stop worrying and trying to control the bigger picture/outcome.

I do exactly the same thing, btw.

I got as far as reading your OP where you said you raised the annual sex and she said it was 'normal'. How does she think sex once a year is any kind of 'normal' in a loving relationship? Or is it that she says it's normal and banks on you not arguing?

It sounds as though you need a relationship with a lot of emotional feedback and intimacy and she - doesn't. She wants a practical relationship and a bit 'hands off'.

So perhaps you have grown apart and are no longer suited. There are happier places to be in the world. A broken relationship is not a failure if you take what you have learned from it and use that to become happier and a more rounded individual.

I really don't think this relationship will ever be a happy one. I'd walk away. But certainly wouldn't be walking away with nothing like you said up thread! Keep it amicable and take what's yours.

Firstly thank you to everyone. From the bottom of my heart I can say that the comments advice and guidance from people that dont know me has been able to instill a moment of calm in what's been an awful few months.

Sereneda - you come across as a very level headed, warm and caring person and I would love to have a sister like you. Your brother is a lucky guy. (After years or being there through thick and thin for my sister, she never reciprocated and I've given up investing in my relationship with her).

I've got a plan -

• carry on with the CBT

• Going to go to a relstionship therapist on my own for a short period to explore whether the relationship is controlling or just one sided and could be 'rebalanced'. This may not be possible on my own but I will see what they say. I already have found someone who looks like I could work with.

• Over the next couple of months I'm going to devote more time to myself. I've already done this today - asking an old friend to meet up and do a sport I love next weekend. My wife wont come as we have different interests.

• Going to try and step back and stop it overtaking my life. Its ruining me - my work is now being affected and I've had insomnia for nine months.

• I'm going to continue to try and work on the relationship. Show passion and warmth and be the best husband I can be. I need to push through the resentment barrier.

I hope say by the autumn then, I should be hopefully in a better position to make a more measured decision. I will update you.

Thank you once again.

That sounds really positive. Well done for getting down to a plan so quickly.

I really wish you the best with it all - and thanks for the nice comments

Keep us updated!

So... one step forward two steps back. Last night she suggested we watch on chesil beach. Sad and emotional story....We spent a bit of time discussing the story and the fact that the inability for the man to deal with the issue ruined his life. Just before going to bed she turned to me and asked whether I thought that our life was like that. It just hit me out of nowhere. I felt it was a massively leading question and replied no.

I havent slept..I couldn't deal with the fact I think she was trying to tell me something without having the courage to tell me directly. (She has done this before by saying it's ok to fail and 'its will be ok, and ok can mean different things")

Its pushed me further into darkness. Emotionally I read it as suggesting that was akin to saying my failure to address the issues has caused the situation.

I've got some time to myself today. I think I just need to lay my cards on the table tonight...and then step back and wait to see what happens. Any advice on how to do this?

OP, why not follow that topic once she opened it? Yes, maybe she was going roundabout a bit, maybe afraid of opening a talk outright, but it was an opening to discuss your problems.

It was really late and I was tired and it hit me out of nowhere. I was brushing my teeth at the time

I would advice to remind hervof the question today and open up comunication. She might not be happy with how things are either.