What would you make of this?! It is even a red flag?

[User13794]

Could do with some outside perspectives as I fear my heart is ruling my head and I’m not seeing clearly!

I was in a relationship for 3 years that ended just over a year ago. I ended it because I was moving temporarily for work and it was too far to sustain it and it was something I felt was right at the time and I am glad I did it. He was devastated when it ended and it was very difficult and sad but ultimately for the best in the circumstances. I was VERY happy with him though so it was hard to do and we stayed in touch now and then. Fast forward to this April and he invites me over for a catch up now I am back from working abroad. We have an amazing afternoon, he tells me he was seeing someone on and off from Ireland but is currently single. I tell him I’m single too, we talk about random things, meet up again a few more times, kiss, have phone calls, text etc. It feels like we are slipping into a relationship again. He’s saying all sorts of lovely things, it’s great seeing him and we are as close as we were before and I felt I was falling back in love with him.

Then he suddenly disappears off the radar. I left it a couple of weeks then felt genuine concern and called/text. He eventually replied like he was a different person...saying lots of cryptic stuff like he wasn’t sure about us, he was still angry about the fact I left him and it hurt him badly, he was confused, I was messing with his head, things had changed for him a lot in the last year etc etc. I was confused by all of this and told him so and he started to get cross saying we could have been amazing and I ruined it, now I want to click my fingers and be back in a relationship... he put his heart on the line and I trampled on it and didn’t care about things by just ending it. Etc etc. So we stop talking.

I have since found out that in May, a month after we started seeing each other again, his ‘on off girlfriend’ from Ireland is having a baby in July. When I found out I asked him why he hadn’t told me. He said he only found out a month ago - but on my calculations there was an overlap and he certainly knew at least half the time we were seeing each other and didn’t tell me. When he disappeared it turned out he had actually gone to Ireland but even since that date he had been messaging me while he was there, I just didn’t know he wasn’t in England as he hadn’t told me.

When I asked why he didn’t tell me immediately when he found out, he says it was none of my business and why should he tell me about his life when I’m not part of it. He seemed to almost blame me for now wanting to be with him when he’s in this situation that he wouldn’t have been in had we stayed together!!!

I guess maybe he has a right to be angry but also he shouldn’t have been meeting me and being intimate etc without telling me this information surely? Or am I being unfair?

When the angry messages stopped, he sort of broke down and just said the last few weeks had been terrible and he was very worried about everything. This has made me feel so protective of him...he always wanted the marriage, family, house, in a very prescriptive way and so I know how much this will be affecting him and causing him panic. It is the worst scenario for him. He met her in September last year so hasn’t even known her a year and I can’t see her moving here after she apparently didn’t tell him about the pregnancy until a few weeks ago.

He’s said he would like to chat soon and that he has found things really hard and that he is sorry he snapped at me and that he would never want to fall out, he still cares. Am I being a pushover for entertaining even this? I still care for him a lot and part of me wonders if I could even move past this and still be with him in the future...we haven’t talked about us at all since he has admitted to what has gone on but it is clear he is not in a relationship with this person so I do know that for sure.

Am I being an idiot for even considering this? I’m known to be very forgiving in relationships and letting things slide that people would see as red flags, but maybe this isn’t a red flag it’s just real life and stuff happens?

@User13794

Thanks for your reply. This is what is scaring me because I honestly felt like maybe this is just what happens in life and nobody is perfect. He doesn’t know this woman and so it must be a shock for him and I feel for him because of that. It’s not his fault I guess is it? These things happen.

I guess also I thought he has a right to be angry with me for ending things when we were so happy. Maybe he thought I just wanted to pick him up again when I had finished my travels, which is maybe a red flag from me?! I don’t know.

You don't know for sure he doesn't know this woman you only know what he has told you

Again you don't know if he knew she was pregnant he has just told you this

It feels like a set up you have now been conditioned to accept anything he says without question to take him having a go at you and not challenge it because it's not you its "her" and the unexpected baby

Your guilt does not justify his behaviour tell him your backing away because its inappropriate for you to even be considering any type of relationship at this time and giving him space to engage with his new baby

Then block him and run like hell

I haven't RTFT but you keep saying you really loved him. If that were true you would have found a way to make things work - either by not moving, him moving with you or just trying to keep things going. If things were that amazing I don't think you would have broken up in the first place.

OP, this is not your circus and these are not your monkeys.

His GF in Ireland is having a bab. A BABY. His priorities should be there and you are just not even on the edge of those priorities.

Stope wasting your time on him in a romantic way. Offer him good wishes and send him on his way.

There are nice people out there with less complicated lives. Look for one of those.

@User13794

I don’t know what gaslighting is?

I am going to let it go but when you have shared your life with someone and rekindled it then it is obviously difficult. I want to know why she waited to the last minute to tell him so that I can understand how long he was lying to me for. It is not so much about her as it is about how it fits with his interaction with me

But you already know he lied to you for a time....

I have been where you are , in my case unravelling an infidelity. It was horrendous for me trying to piece together the actions afterwards. Trying to work out the level of his betrayal, trying to figure out the number of lies. I found a present at that time and am now sure it was intended for her, but he said it was for me, it makes me humiliated to remember how happy I was....

The very fact you are trying to work out the level of dishonesty shows that you don't trust him?

You see that? I took a while to see that .

I'm sorry though , I can empathise with the feeling.
I know my situation wasn't the same and I know this man wasn't like my ex .

I get people saying just move on but it’s not that simple. I am not contacting him obviously but that doesn’t mean I don’t think about it all and wonder what he was saying to me and when and what all the cryptic messages meant.

At one point after he turned cold I called him out on it and he said he ‘wasn’t sure what he wanted because on reflection he didn’t know if he could trust me’ and that ‘things had changed for him and he was a different person now so he wasn’t sure if it would work and that it was my fault for taking so long to come back,’ this was ‘the worst time of his life’ for me to reappear. All very cryptic until I found out the truth. He was happy to message me while there with her, unbeknown to me. The last thing he said was he was in a terrible mess and didn’t know what he was going to do or where he would live...

It is hard to believe all this simply because someone suddenly told him about a pregnancy at the last minute, yet at the same time he would have to have put on quite a show for him to have known all along. I am going over it because it is hard to understand why someone wouldn’t tell a man that until so late and it isn’t about her but about how that impacts how I view his behaviour towards me. I am not contacting him but I am struggling to get to grips with it all in my mind.

Why are you so adamant that he knew nothing about the pregnancy until he told you?

He didn't tell you about having a girlfriend who he was serious enough with to get pregnant. And if she's in Ireland it must have been serious as he must have been travelling down to be with her.

Why does any of it matter to you, you dumped him.

Why do you suddenly want him back so desperately?

IF he's this amazing wonderful human being, why did you dump him in the first place, you weren't moving away forever or even that long.

So just consider both options (he didn't know any sooner / he did know sooner) and think about what that changes for you. Nothing.

If he didn't know sooner and everything is as he's said this is still way too messy a situation to be involved in and he's continually punishing you for breaking up with him before.

If he did know sooner then all of the above plus extra lying.

Can you see that?

Stop centring your thought process on this woman! It has nothing to do with you and whatever she has done, his reactions are the only thing relevant to you.

And as I said above, if you think through both scenarios he's still someone you need to just disengage from and permanently move on from.

The moving on part is not up for questioning, I am obviously not going to go back there. I’m also not blaming a woman in Ireland for his behaviour. I’m only wondering why she may have left it so late to tell him so that I can consider if he was actually telling me the truth. Someone I spent a lot of time with and loved and always stayed in touch with, it is obvious why I feel I need to understand this to piece together what happened when we met again.

It isn’t about obsessing over her, it’s about trying to understand his actions towards me. When something shocking happens it isn’t as simple as just moving on - that is exactly what I want to do and I am not in contact with him. That doesn’t mean I don’t think about it and want to understand it. His sudden coldness and panic to me would mean he had only just been told but I don’t know anyone who would leave it so late. And as for it being a serious relationship between them, he hasn’t seen her since January and they only met in September.

@User13794

The moving on part is not up for questioning, I am obviously not going to go back there. I’m also not blaming a woman in Ireland for his behaviour. I’m only wondering why she may have left it so late to tell him so that I can consider if he was actually telling me the truth. Someone I spent a lot of time with and loved and always stayed in touch with, it is obvious why I feel I need to understand this to piece together what happened when we met again.

It isn’t about obsessing over her, it’s about trying to understand his actions towards me. When something shocking happens it isn’t as simple as just moving on - that is exactly what I want to do and I am not in contact with him. That doesn’t mean I don’t think about it and want to understand it. His sudden coldness and panic to me would mean he had only just been told but I don’t know anyone who would leave it so late. And as for it being a serious relationship between them, he hasn’t seen her since January and they only met in September.

Well it is obsessive to think about a total stranger like this you have no idea of her situation thought process or even medical issues she might be one of those people who found out late (there is a thread on mumsnet about that) or she might have considered an abortion but she lives in Ireland so its difficult she might even have considered adoption but changed her mind you need to accept you will never know the ins and outs of it all

And (as kindly as I can possibly put this)

It's none of your business

Unpopular opinion: I don't think he's done wrong... he found out his ex was pregnant. He is getting his head around it. You two aren't together, he's not under any obligation to even tell you at all, let alone to tell you in a certain timeframe that you find acceptable.

When you challenged him on being quiet he explained to you what had happened and, quite probably told you the reasons why he doesn't trust you and that you hurt him just to clarify in his own mind that although you two were talking, no decisions had been made and his loyalty does not belong to you, most likely once the shock passes his loyalty will belong to his child. I don't think he owes you anything at all.

You don't seem to understand the point I was making. It's obsessive partly because it has no bearing on the outcome at all, so you are wasting time and energy trying to figure out a strangers motivations / actions.

As I said:

So just consider both options (he didn't know any sooner / he did know sooner) and think about what that changes for you. Nothing.

If he didn't know sooner and everything is as he's said this is still way too messy a situation to be involved in and he's continually punishing you for breaking up with him before.

If he did know sooner then all of the above plus extra lying.

Can you see that?

Can you see how it has no different outcome either way?

It doesn’t have a different outcome but it means he was even worse than I thought if he had known all along. I want to believe him that he had just found out that same week but I don’t know any situation where someone would leave it to the eleventh hour to tell someone about their own child, it seems a cruel and unusual thing to do.

I think you need to stop worrying about it. We're all uninvolved strangers and can see that whatever the details this man committed elsewhere and you should move on.

OF COURSE the emotions involved are never as simple as that but it's your emotions you have to deal with not the relationship itself. You might find that you have badly dented pride rather than a broken heart of you think about it deeply. They both hurt like mad but the first is much easier to recover from.

plant I think you are right that it is more shock than it is a broken heart. I did love him and when we started seeing each other again it was great and so for it to come crashing down like this is hard but not impossible, it had only been a couple of months realistically.

It’s more the feeling of betrayal I think. We had so many conversations in those few weeks that were, I thought, very honest and open. I put myself on the line and it seemed he had as well. Knowing whether she really did leave it so late to tell him is significant in my mind as to whether he was really a bastard in all this or just caught up in something out of the blue to him. I’m working that out I obviously have to ask myself whether any woman would keep that a secret for so long. It isn’t about obsessing over it, but wanting to know how much of what he said to me and did with me was while he knew. I think it’s normal to think all this over and it isn’t a case of obsessing over her actions, I just want to know how much of the last two months he was lying to me.

*in working that out

You'll probably never find out the truth. And really there isn't a truth about whether he's a crappy bastard or unwittingly got caught up. It's most likely a mixture.

I don't think either that you're obsessing - yes, of course you want to know - but you need to distract yourself because you're not going to get any useful info before this baby's born are you? You need to concentrate on yourself. You can't know what her thought processes were and you'll most likely never get an accurate account of his either. Sorry, I know it's hard.

You're not going to know if he's telling the truth because you can't contact her and he's unlikely to come out now and sat "I lied, I knew she was pregnant from earlier than that".

The only explanation I can think.of that means he hasn't lied, is that she had massive doubts about involving him at all and decided not to tel him a d to.procesd as a single mum from the start but as the due date got closer changed her mind.

There would be a moral conundrum in not telling a d future complications te her child asking questions etc.

But whether he's better or worse - doesn't really change anything. He's unavailable for the foeseeable future and about to become a dad. If it doesn't work out between them and he still has string feelings for you, he can get in contact in future and you can see how you feel ..
But you'll probably have moved on.

Yeah that is true, it could well be that as we were friendly all of last year and he told me about her in September and I didn’t hear from him much for a couple of months and then he said they ended in january, which is when we began talking more and it was obvious he wasn’t seeing anyone. Maybe she just didn’t want the complication.

It may be he is back in touch gilbert but the fact of the matter is that I can’t see her moving to England so I expect he will relocate if they try and make it work. I certainly wouldn’t leave all my friends and family to move to be with a man who hadn’t even been there throughout my pregnancy. It will be him moving over for sure and like you say, time to move on.

What a mind fuck it has been though! He was always adamant he would never ever want a child outside of a solid relationship. It was one of the things he used to talk about regularly when we were together as his brother has a child from a broken relationship and he always said it was his nightmare situation.

I agree with everyone who says you should let this guy go, OP. Regardless of when he knew about the baby.

If you said, I missed it but do you know when he saw her last? If they were on and off, when were they last on?

I don’t know for sure but we were talking since about February and spoke frequently. I think it was a few months. I’m not sure what I believe now but him going to cold so fast did make me believe he had only just found out and seemed in shock

If he's seen her at all this year it's unlikely he wouldn't have noticed she was pregnant.

I think that he was very hurt when you left (and you obviously don't love him enough to have finished because you were relocating temporarily - I think you missed the attention though and that's why you carried on communicating with him, which was pretty shit imo). I think he had a rebound relationship with the irish girl and is now torn and not happy about having a baby with someone he isn't in love with, especially when the girl he was in love with is back in the scene. I think that's maybe why he's all over the place.

You didn't want him when you were borh single so now withall te added complications of a baby living in another country etc, you should leave him be.

You can really tell this is women when they say things like 'if you really loved him you would have found a way to stay'. It is a perfectly healthy thing to NOT revolve your life around love. Men do it all the time. When I was a codependent love addict, I didn't get it either, never could understand why someone would 'give up love' for their career - but now I see it. Love sometimes happens at the wrong time, and well done, OP, for taking the decision you did.

This man will never forgive you though. In his mind, you 'owe him', and so he feels justified in treating you shabbiliy - and he always will.

The rest is only various fluffs and sparkles to try to explain himself, and you are only entertaining the excuses because you want him to love you like you still love him.

It’s shit because we were back in touch and everything was going well. I can’t imagine he had known any sooner than he did simply because he wouldn’t have said the things he said to me then suddenly go off the radar. There was a reason he did that - because he had just found out.

I don’t think it was wrong to end things either christmas I had to be true about how I felt at the time and the position I was in generally. It doesn’t mean I didn’t love him and I still do, which is why I am struggling with the idea he has lied to me/wondering how a woman could keep that secret all that time and why!

ChristmasFluff I don't think people are suggesting she shouldn't have gone away for work. I think they're suggesting she would have stayed in the relationship while she went if she was serious about the relationship. With no judgement about not being.