He 'doesn't know what to think' - is it over?

[newname333]

My boyfriend and I have been together for 15 months. We have a great time together on the surface but I feel that we lack a bit of depth because he doesn't have much emotional intelligence whereas I have enough for the both of us and more! He is a great guy in so many ways though - funny, witty, intelligent, kind, thoughtful and considerate (in his own way) of me.

We have communication issues because I am anxious and he is avoidant. This often leads to misunderstandings and arguments which he thinks nothing of, but are very painful and upsetting for me. I have tried to explain this to him numerous times but on Friday I lost it a bit and said I didn't think it could work if he couldn't understand my needs.

I sent him links to articles about how to date someone with an anxious attachment style, and the hallmarks of an anxious-avoidant relationships and how difficulties can be overcome. I made it clear that I want to work on this and asked him to have a think about things.

Last night he messaged me a nice message 'thinking of you xx' and this evening he messaged with general chitchat. I said I'd been waiting to hear from him about what he thinks about us and he said he was still thinking because 'he doesn't know what to think'.

To me, that sounds like it's over and I wish he'd just say it rather than dragging it out so I can get on with mourning the relationship. I have already spent last night and most of this evening crying. I am wondering what other people think - does it sound like it's over to you?

I am pretty devastated and i am wishing I had never brought it up in the first place although I know in reality the relationship would probably have no real future if we can't get our communication right.

I feel sorry for him in a way - someone who is so emotionally unaware dealing with me, who is overly-emotional (although I do try to rein it in) must be challenging and confusing.

I just wish I wasn't this way and that things were simpler. From what he has said and your experiences, is it really over or is there some hope?

@wildone84

There's a lot of people in this forum who obviously don't understand what anxious attachment really is, ignore the mean comments OP.

Personally I have never been able to make an anxious/avoidant pairing work. It was like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and it was incredibly stressful.

Thank you for your kindness and for sharing your experience

Well obvs he is supposed to say 'I love and care about you and I want to work at this too'

Thing is, OP, he may feel forced into a corner being effectively told how he needs to behave and feel. Even if he does love you and wants your relationship to work, he probably feels that It has to be on your terms, and he doesn't get a choice in how to express his feelings.

It is a very tricky combination, someone who doesn't enjoy open expression of feelings and someone who craves it for reassurance, affirmation and all the things that they believe make the relationship come alive. But if you don't enjoy that expression and find it claustrophobic, it becomes a problem.

It sounds like you won't ever get from the relationship what you need....

I want him to communicate better with me - tell me when he's upset/angry rather than letting it all bottle up which results in arguments which I find extremely upsetting

But OP, he isn't bottling anything up! You're seeing it only from your pov- if you don't express your feelings you may feel like it's bottling it up but to him, he doesn't have that innate desire to express things, so it isn't there in the first place! That isn't to say he doesn't have feelings, it's just they aren't the same as yours, his needs are different.

What you're interpreting as him being "upset/angry":may be because he feels the weight of expectation from you and that's what's frustrating him.

Believe me, I've lived with someone like that (my first serious relationship) and it's exhausting for both people. When we split it was a massive relief, sad to say.

'I have tried to speak to him about this in the past but he dismisses it as me 'overreacting' or being hormonal'

I don't know about the psychology of anxious/avoidant relationship pairings, but I do know to be very wary of any man who'd use this cheap tactic.

I want him to

And that's the problem here

Other than the obvious personality clashes/disparities

Your wants

Your needs

Your control

PPs are saying that you sound needy. You really do. You sound VERY needy. I can tell because I'm very needy as well. I'm happily married. My DH and I get on like a house on fore, because guess what? He's just as needy as I am. We pander to each other's neediness without even thinking about it because it's natural to us. Neither of us actually comes across as uncomfortably needy to the other because it seems normal to us - we understand each other. I'm not saying that our relationship is perfect, nobody's is, but we are happy together and we don't feel like we have to try and stifle our needs or change who we are in order to please the other one.

The reason I'm telling you this is so that you can stop worrying about how to change someone, and yourself, and let this man go. He's not right for you. He isn't making you happy. I would continue to work on yourself, of course, as I think all adults should do. Self reflection and improvement is good for anyone. But stop trying to shove a square peg in a round hole. You'll never be happy. You're better off enjoying the freedom of being single and eventually someone who is a good match for you will crop up.

OP, your life is making you miserable, and you are trying to change because of that - and yet still you are a long way from being where you want to be - because changing yourself is hard work, even when the pain massively motivates you.

Your BF hasn't got that motivation, because he isn't in pain. He doesn't know what to think because 15 months is meant to be the honeymoon period of the relationship, not the time when you are having to 'work on it'.

I think you are getting too hung up on the labels, and are therefore judging that this is salvageable (in spite of the labels actually showing it isn't), when in fact at best you are trying to get him to commit to years of unhappiness as you both work on being other than you are.

You are also making him responsible for everything - even for ending a relationship that seemingly works for him at the moment.

You are not a bit-player in your life. You are not doomed to simply follow the direction of others and be completely dependent on them for validation. Unless you choose to be so.

Take back control of your life. Begin by understanding that when you need to send an article to someone about how to behave, then it's probably a sign you should be walking away.

Never bank on potential. When you need someone to be other than who they are in order for a relationship to work, the relationship is not going to work.

He spends his day looking at legal paperwork. That is emotionally heavy for him OP. When he knocks that off, either for a coffee break lunch or to go home at night or for the weekend, he will want to skim over the suface of life and have fun and not look too deep into anything. You are metaphysically trying to staple his eyelids open and force his head in the direction of your needs and wants. Can you not imagine how that feels for him? Avoidant is his way of getting HIS needs met. Avoidant is the fast track to the skimming and light and airy thing that he must have to continue to be a happy person.

There's only so much difficult shit we can all deal with before we all become avoidant. In his shoes I would feel the way he does and I consider myself an empath.

I'm not saying you are wrong OP but you are not seeing him for how he really is. He ticks a fair few boxes for you but not the important ones.

You will harm both of you if you persist in trying to bang a square peg in a round hole. If you stay together he will see you as hard work and as soon as someone 'cool' comes along, he'll be gone.

OP does he seem like he wants to work on the relationship? Does he try to meet your needs? Can you see his efforts? Or does he seem happy to continue being the way he is?
You clearly have abandonment and rejection issue’s if you interpret ‘I don’t know what to think’ as him wanting to break up but that’s because you’re only thinking from your perspective, because that probably is what an anxiously attached person would say if they were considering it, but it’s not what a secure or avoidant would.

You can’t make him be what you want him to be by the force of your emotions he has to want to adapt.

This pattern of bottling his emotions up and it later causing arguments, is that because you pursue the subject and persist in trying to get him to open up? Or he brings out his anger in a different way after the incident?

Forgetting all the attachment stuff, I find the fact he dismisses you when you express yourself and tells you you’re overreacting concerning. He is minimising and invalidating your emotions. As I mentioned before, whether my partner understands what I’m feeling or not I’m always allowed to feel what I feel and that’s essential in a relationship.

Are you actually happy in this relationship? Or only if he changes? What if he doesn’t, are you prepared to walk away or do you feel you two are right for each other and you must change him, if only he could see it’s for his own good.
If the above is true that’s a typical unhealthy anxious attachment talking and this relationship is feeding your unhealthiness.

I sent him links to articles about how to date someone with an anxious attachment style, and the hallmarks of an anxious-avoidant relationships and how difficulties can be overcome. I made it clear that I want to work on this and asked him to have a think about things.

If I were him I would run a mile! - and try and find someone who was fun!

I think you should loosen up a bit. If you have baggage that affects your behaviour then it is not his problem. I expect he just wants a happy life.

If you were compatible, it wouldn't be this difficult.

Sympathy OP. Am also anxiously attached with massive abandonment/rejection issues. I find relationships terribly difficult. Years of therapy has given me insight, but has not fundamentally changed the way I am/feel.

Avoidant people trigger me. And when I'm triggered I can fall back into a miserable pit of anxious acting out. I know I'm doing it and the shame that comes with the behaviour is agonising. Just not cool is it, being "needy" and "intense" and "no fun". It embarrasses me.

The one thing I know is that it really is our problem though. It isn't anyone elses 'fault' that we behave like this. Other people are allowed to do their own thing. They don't have to talk things over if they don't want to. They don't have to provide us with reassurance. They don't have to do anything they don't want.

Here is my mantra for when I'm feeling anxious and my instinct is to move towards another person seeking reassurance: If in doubt, back off. Seriously. Backing off rather than moving forward goes against our instincts but is almost always the right thing to do. Back off, switch off, (phone, laptop etc) find something you like doing (boxset, hot bath, book) and try to calm down.

If we don't regulate ourselves and stop acting out on every instinct, we drive people away. That is the sad fact of the matter. I have ruined relationships and friendships through not being able to get a hold of myself. And the shame spiral that comes from that makes me more anxious and more likely to act out and more likely to drive people away!

I know it's awful. But remember. If in doubt, back off.

If anyone is thinking my comments were rude, I didn't mean that at all, it's not a criticism of the OP, I'm just speaking of my own experience as someone who's like this, and what helped me. xx

ChippyPickledEggs Brilliant post.

Wow. Brilliant post @ChippyPickledEggs

Excellent

This sounds very familar. Very. Have you posted about this before? On numerous occasions?

You sound like very hard work. You also sound like someone who self diagnosis with rubbish then expects others to adapt to your delicate and specific personality type. I'm not surprised he doesn't know what to think. He's probably thinking 'wtf'.

“he doesn't have much emotional intelligence whereas I have enough for the both of us and more!”

If you really have as much emotional intelligence as you seem to think you do, then surely you will respect that his attachment style holds the same weight as yours. Your need for him to talk about his feelings all the time and reassure you does not outweigh his need not to. You are incompatible. Find someone that won’t have to read articles on how to keep you happy

If he knew he wanted to be with you, he would. I'd definitely say it's over for him.

I'm another one saying you sound like hard work. At 15 months in you are supposed to be having fun, not setting him bloody homework about your attachment style (whatever that is!). And you don't seem that emotionally intelligent to me, you seem determined that your way is the only way, and that being 'avoidant' is wrong. Maybe for him it isn't! You're just not right for each other I reckon.

@Antibles, I think you are 100% correct.

OP, you can't change him. I don't know if you are being needy as you haven't given examples but if covert aggression rings true...believe it.
What do you know about his childhood?

I know that if someone appears perfect the tendency is to want to see it through but this isn't Good Will Hunting, there is rarely a happy ending.
Ex H had a year of counselling, it didn't help, perhaps even made it worse. If he is a grown man then the likelihood of change is very small.

I think you deserve better but completely understand how disappointing and frustrating to let go of the seemingly "could be perfect relationship".
Good communication is critical especially conflict management, if he can't meet you in the middle then it will never work.

I think he deserves better, not to be psychoanalysed and told how to feel and what to say. I think you should let him go for his sake

Every year someone comes up with some new buzzwords.

You aren't a label and neither is he.

The simplest reason is usually the truth.

I'm guessing like most guys, he likes your company and the sex and that is about as deep thinking he has about your relationship.

After 15 months, this is who he is and you're not happy with that, then it's time to say goodbye.

“He doesn’t know what to think” I’d take that as he doesn’t know what to think, or if he really is an avoidant maybe just that and he’s avoiding the conversation, you send him things to help build on your relationship and it’s either a he doesn’t know what to think or b he’s avoiding discussing it which tells you all you need to know if it’s that one, i can’t see it working from all you have said and it’s only a 15 month relationship you don’t fit but if you really need it confirmed just ask him what he meant by he doesn't know what to think, your over thinking this way to much if you can’t change yourself completely you can’t expect someone else too either

I think you are hard work and he is better off without you

And to be honest you sound like you've on google and have been self diagnosing yourself and come up with this load of bollocks of "anxious attachment" and "anxious avoidant" to avoid facing the fact you are a nightmare to be a in a relationship with

What are you DOING exactly. What is all your reading and talking doing to the relationship ? What is the outcome ? What outcome are you expecting ? You are asking all kind of very valid questions about what you expect and what you want from this relationship from your unique point of view. What's in it for him ? What are you bringing to the table ? The positive part of it ? The unique perks ? What do you know about him apart from all his defects ? Do your dreams coincide ? Do you have the same values ? Did you talk about money ? What about his family and your family in the picture, is it working out ? Anxiety can be alleviated with facts, delightful facts or painful facts. Start living a little. Have activities with him, and question yourself about you feel around him. If he is respectful of you, if you could picture yourself in a peaceful relationship with him for the next 100 years doing whatever you are doing. As is. You are the one that will change in the relationship. Merging together to be one is about you making a step forward out of your shell and hopefully bettering yourself. He could change too. The emotionally mature accepts and embraces the other totally completely as is. This is the power of love. This is the unconditional gift. You have to ask all the right questions before you commit. You will have a lifetime to be absolutely blindsided. It's not the other way round. If it does not fit stop it right now. You are not in a committed relationship and this is your chance to better yourself and get a better fit. All the best.