Could he be gay ?

[Underpressure13]

Earlier on, my OH was being a bit suspicious around his phone after having a nap. I showed an interest in what he was looking at- but when I got closer to his phone he leaped to grab it . Feeling very suspicious , I felt he was hiding something so leapt to see and kept hold of it. I told him to let me see what was there, saying that if he had nothing to hide he wouldn’t mind or be reacting that way . It turned into a full on wrestle - he was laughing the whole time but using all his strength to get it off me. He said’ wow you’re quite strong’ ( I wasn’t giving in) .
When I said ‘what’s on there that you can’t show me ?!’ He said something along the lines of ‘ I would rather you didn’t see anything and just keep doubting’ so I got even more suspicious then.
Anyway I managed to check a few pages as I got away from him - it was all a bit silly really . Nothing major came of that ( there was one person on Signal he claims not to know , no picture and only one message) , nothing I could really pin to anything . He has so many apps and pages it was hard to look. Afterwards, his male group chat popped up on WhatsApp ( a group of around 10 men he talks to about computers etc ) - he was saying ‘ it’s just guys , nothing going on, old friends’ I saw a few messages on it ( have in the past too) and suddenly I realised that I’ve never - in around 2 years- seen any photos of any women on there, not one. Which I find a bit strange for a group of young men. But within the conversation this last week , there are quite a few pictures of - wait for it - sausage dinners and sausages laid out on plates to look like men’s parts 🤔?! One guy had said ‘ count me in for the dic pics’ . When I said ‘ hang on a minute ...’ he said ‘ oh that’s nothing , just guys joking , it’s banter , just being stupid etc etc . I told him that I didn’t think guys usually had that content on private chat. Then I remembered that he speaks to one of them privately too and in the past has sent the 😘emoji, which I thought was odd at the time. He said that emoji is used ironically Between guys in his country ( he’s not from UK) . I just feel a bit baffled?! Am I really overthinking this ? Has lockdown turned me totally loopy? Do I have reason to think anything ? He denies it all and says I’m being super paranoid and that I should just be glad the guys don’t talk about women . If all that were true , I’d be happy that they’re just ordinary, nerdy guys talking computers and , er, sausages . Somehow though, Something doesn’t feel right .
I’m ashamed that I didn’t trust him , but his reaction was quite extreme- he was absolutely desperate to get the phone. Otherwise I wouldn’t have tried so hard.
Sorry this is long 😬

Yes , I remember getting home from
Work late that night and thinking what a weird thing for DP to have spent time doing . Seemed so odd and a huge waste of time. He didn’t send it in the end ( well so he said ) and I only found the freeze framed shots by accident when he was showing another pic on his phone. He was embarrassed to have been discovered with that . That was about 2 months after we had got back together last winter.
His job is mechanical , nothing unusual . He doesn’t make friends easily there though . No hobbies. Life is work , home, mine, computer mostly . I try to persuade him to get out for a cycle or walk. He did have a dip in sea recently when we were allowed to walk to beach and enjoys walks , but is generally quite a hermit . I’m
Usually a very social person - I see lots of people daily in my job and live in a place where everyone knows everyone. It does seem to be me who makes the plans though . He tags along , more than anything, but doesn’t actively plan anything for us or get particularly excited about doing stuff.

What age is he?
I don't really understand it because the dynamic seems very unequal. He's more a representative of a boyfriend than an actual boyfriend. Like there's a lot of gaps you have to compensate for isn't there. And behaviour you have to excuse or turn a blind eye to.
I presume he pays household bills, rent etc 50/50 while you are in lockdown?

We’ll be spending time alone this weekend as the children are away . Does anyone have any further thoughts on this for me to mull Over ? What’s the general consensus ? Something worth pursuing ? I know one or two people have thought I’m to blame for being too suspicious and having looked at the phone in the first place , whilst others have thought I definitely have a point and there are strange things going on . Would be interested to hear any more views . My mum is sick of me talking to her about it and thinks I should have walked long ago . She was being pretty mean earlier ( we usually get along great ) and has lost patience , even though she thinks he’s a nice lad generally . Thanks

He could be gay. Thing's are not good anyway. Although you found something unpleasant on his phone it doesn't justify grabbing it and searching it.
I'd feel very angry if DP done this and vice versa. No is no in all cases.

He’s late 30’s for those who asked . No previous relationships as such , just ‘experiences’ which out him off sex from what he’s said . He used to be a guy other women had their affairs with. He had no qualms running out of back door when DP’s came in ?! But these day’s isn’t interested in anything sexual much . The difference of 15 years I guess

My advice is dump him. He seems very odd socially awkward a bit of a perv.
You OTOH come across lovely and social.
I think this guy will pull you down he is already taking up massive head space even your DM is fed up.

Does anyone have any further thoughts on this for me to mull Over ? What’s the general consensus ? Something worth pursuing ?

He just doesn't sound like a nice person. Sounds like a bit of a twat.

Hmmm might be a fetish. Does he always want toad in the hole for dinner? Does he shout “onion gravy” when he orgasms?

@draughtycatflap

To be honest, I don't blame your dm for being fed up with talking about this op. You are going over and over every tiny detail but refusing to see the bigger picture.

He sounds absolutely grim. I don't know if he is gay but he sounds unkind, unsupportive, immature and possibly a bit of a pervert!

I know it's difficult to leave a relationship - I stayed with my exh for over 20 years - but you really are scraping the barrel here with this one. Sorry.

It's confusing that you are still so prepared to stay in the relationship, considering the things you've said. It sounds incredibly toxic.

Initially I was absorbed in how unreasonable you had been to wrestle his phone off him - I still think that's very disrespectful and a huge red flag as to the level of trust you guys have. I can see that he has undermined and gaslit you, which you could use as a defence for your behaviour, but if you feel that is the case you must be able to see that you need to leave him.

I wonder if the reason you're not leaving is that you're in denial at another relationship failing? Ending a bad relationship would be a far smarter move than not ending it. Especially with children in the house.

If you're worried about being single - you really need to be single right now. It's not just him squashing your self esteem, you need to work to stop doing it yourself too

So you've got no kids this weekend but you are pretty much resigned to the fact that you won't be having much sex as he is adamant he doesn't want to be a father , he finds pics of penis's amusing and doesn't delete them , he has never had a relationship with another woman despite being in his 30's, I would actually be thinking seriously that he could be gay .

Thanks to everyone who left messages before the weekend - I appreciated them, have been mulling them over and giving them a lot of thought . We spent the weekend together without any kids around and I used the opportunity to see where we were / how things panned out . This weekend was actually a good one , he was nice company to have around , hugely helpful in the house , helped me plan my DS birthday , generally did loads and was nice . We had a long talk about various things , including the strange thread with the boys and also his friendship with the female I spoke about . No arguments , just working out what kicked off the whole sorry event of me feeling insecure enough to check what he was looking at. He listened well and seemed to understand where i was Coming from with the fact he hadn’t told me about said female friend ( though he didn’t really apologise or give an explanation still ) . He did bring up the guy he thought I was having an affair with last year and said he was sorry he’d jumped to huge conclusions back then and that his alcohol problem at the time had made him more paranoid . He said he felt ashamed that he nearly ruined what was , for me, a new friendship - and that he would never do it again . I said that I understood he needed female friend in his life and wouldn’t have a problem with it as long as he could be more open about it in the future and not make such an issue of it by keeping it to himself and never bringing her up in conversation . I think he took this on board - we’ll see . Re the boys WhatsApp thread ; I said that I thought some of the content on there was odd and seemed - at times- a bit homophobic/ possibly racist or just generally ‘ dark humour’ . I asked him what he got out of those messages and why he remained in that group . He said something along the lines of he enjoys dark humour , likes their memes and strange sense of humour . He showed me the latest offering which was some joke about Hitler again . I don’t really get it and it’s way off my humour , but then we are quite different generally . He pointed out that we’re different , but said that it doesn’t have to mean we won’t last together ( his best friend had already told him we wouldn’t last before he made the move over )
On reflection I decided that I’d leave him to the boys group as it’s his choice and he clearly enjoys it for those reasons. I’m just hanging back and will see if any other more alarming stuff materialise , if not maybe he’ll decide it’s not appropriate in his own time. Or not. Not really up to me I guess.
I’m going to try and take a step back from being too paranoid about female friend and give him some leeway. I think I’ll still feel a little suspicious , but hopefully he will somehow put my mind at ease along the way. He keeps his phone to hand all of the time these days and goes to sleep with it wrapped in headphones under his clothes- to deter me I’m sure ! No matter how much I want to , I won’t check the phone again . If something isn’t right in the relationship it’ll come to light in its own way sooner or later or he’ll slip up eventually . But hopefully my instincts on that score have been wrong . He often makes jokes about me being ‘ a clever one’ and says things like ‘ are you going to phone the police to see what I’m doing wrong’ all said very jokingly- but it makes me wonder . I also noticed 2 SIM cards in his wallet the other day - one has been used . Ofcourse it crossed my mind if he’s using another of his three phones , but I try to discard those thoughts .
I’m going to continue to work on my trust as it’s had a big knock . Not sure if that’s because my instincts are good or if my ex has made me that way .
Please don’t think that I haven’t heeded anyone’s advice here - I promise that I haven’t swept anything under the carpet or turned a blind eye . I’m fully open to everything you’ve all said and am leaving all of those thought-balls - so to speak !- in the air . I’m just willing to wait slightly longer to see how they fall . Please don’t think I’m settling - I just want to be 100% certain that my decisions are correct and justified.
Finally on the sex issues - I brought that up again too . He is clearly struggling with regular intimacy , there aren’t many days where he’s happy to get involved because he’s always worried I’ll get pregnant . That and the fact that he’s often not in the mood due to a combo of being over tired/ stressed / low energy / feeling dirty etc. Many things have to be in place for him to feel ‘able’ and even then , half the time it doesn’t work for him / he doesn’t finish due to his ED . Not every time , but a lot. We have very different sex drives , so I worry that we won’t be compatible if things don’t improve / become more regular . When it works , it’s good and we both seem to really enjoy it, but it’s nearly always initiated by me . He has said he’ll get on the list for a vasectomy- he thinks he’ll feel much better without the pregnancy worry .
Sorry this has been so so long , but finally had the chance to get it all out after the weekend . He has restarted work now , so gone back to his flat. We’ll just be seeing each other for long weekends for imminent future . And for those who asked, yes he paid his way during lockdown and always pays 50/50 for food when staying over.
In many ways he’s lovely and I feel quite guilty to question him, but granted, a lot of things have been ‘odd’ and a bit red flagish. I’d be interested to see what you think of my decision to give the benefit of the doubt for now . Let me know if you think I’m crazy to do that . Thanks for your time everyone

Does anyone have anything else to add on this? I thought of something else just now . He is mostly interested in Sex when I’m not - I.e when I’m in a mood and say I’m not interested ( usually because I’ve had enough of trying to initiate every other time ) he’ll then take it as a challenge to get me in the mood . But most other times he would much prefer going straight off to sleep if I didn’t start anything. It’s hard to feel wanted when you get this response - and after only 1.5 years
The other day we were alone at the weekend and I walked around naked after a shower and he didn’t bat an eyelid! Feeling pretty frustrated . When i open up about this he just says ‘ the more you push me on this, the more I won’t do anything’ or ‘ I’m not a machine , what do you expect ! ‘

Actually @peelingpaint I’ve re-read your comment and you made a good, very valid one . Yes I do think it’s actually a lot to do with the ‘ sunken fallacy’ thing I read a lot of in these threads. I think I equate him to the happy life I was having when we first met- and years later, when my 18 year relationship with ( not so ) DH ended , I think I was looking for my knight in shining armour to whisk me away from the EA I’d suffered - I automatically put this relationship into a huge pedestal and assumed we were soulmates- just because it was the nicest thing to have happened to me in years. I made it a love story in my mind - and that’s why it’s taking me so long to ‘ catch up’ internally , with the fact it’s really not turned out to be what I had expected or hoped for . I wanted the dream but I’ve ended up with a huge dose of reality- and yes , probably denial that it’s another relationship that’s rapidly going downhill. I didn’t even want one of those , let alone two . I married for life yet now find myself facing time alone again and my time is ticking .
My life wouldn’t be much different alone actually - maybe easier given everything I’ve discussed here ! - I think it’s just the company I would miss - and the awful fact that my ‘ dream’ , my big investment over the years , had come to nothing 😞
Thanks for your post - everyone has given my a lot to think about and realise

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if he was gay. He doesn't want to have sex with you and doesn't want you to know why. He only tries it on when you don't want to, to make it look like he is interested, but without having to actually go through with it. He's had no proper relationships with women, and he checks out a girl to 'prove' that he's interested in women not men. Plus the dick pics. Sounds like someone who's desperate to convince you he's heterosexual.

@Underpressure13 I totally get the wasted investment feeling. It doesn't work well as a reason to keep investing. I can relate to your predicament - I was in a short relationship that was emotionally and sexually abusive followed by a 10yr marriage that was hugely gaslit. The apparent innocence of the second relationship (he wasn't interested in sex) made it feel like it would be a proper, non-damaging relationship. I stayed in the marriage way, way too long and it was a disaster for me and the kids.

I'm not super familiar with social media psychology and maybe you overanalyse everything you do (!) but what it seems like is that you are deeply insecure in this relationship, to the point where you are putting a lot of credence in the responses on this forum - maybe because the people you talk to in real life are telling you to either end it or stop talking about it, or maybe because you are feeling isolated within the relationship and looking for solace from strangers. Or maybe I'm totally off the mark. But that's my impression. You're unhappy, you're overcompensating, you're clutching at straws, you'd be doing yourself a really big favour by leaving.

I'm really sorry if I sound harsh, I don't mean to at all, just trying not to write too much

Thanks @lazylinguist and @peelingpaint - my children are away this weekend again so we’ll have a few days to ourselves this weekend . I’m ovulating this weekend which means we won’t be doing anything intimate - I’m gutted about this as my drive is quite high ( especially during ovulation ofcourse !) but I think he is actually secretly glad when this weekend comes along as he isn’t under any pressure, it’s just taken as read that we we won’t do anything ( we can’t use condoms because his ED gets so bad trying to put them on and they sometimes ride down and almost get stuck in me - I spend the whole time worrying so then can’t relax into it )
He’s says he’ll see a doctor about the issue , maybe look at testosterone injections or get a vasectomy as then he won’t be so worried during the act, but so far he’s not done anything about that in 2 years . I find it all so frustrating and as people said in similar threads here, it wears your self-esteem down and you don’t feel fanciable anymore.
I visited his flat recently and saw there were several tissues and a roll of kitchen paper under his bed, so I do think he sees to himself when we’re apart. It’s not that he is totally asexual from what I can gather. But it doesn’t quite hit the mark for me. Not in this respect or the others I’ve mentioned
He is just a bit of an Enigma to me really , still trying to work him out after 2 years . I’m sure we’ll have a nice weekend , walking a bit , cooking nice dinners and watching our shared programme We’ve enjoyed - but everything else is just friends who sleep in the same bed . Like others partners on here where there is ED, he calls me a Nymphomaniac and constantly tells me he’s not a machine .
No, not by a bloody million miles you’re not!! ( I think to myself ) I just don’t think he sees there’s an issue . He seems quite self absorbed. He uses sexual language a lot and wanted me to buy new sexy underwear when we met - I think he finds very traditionally Sexy things ( lacy red underwear etc ) a turn on . But now I bought a couple of things he’s lost interest in that too.
He once told me that Spanish women wear red underwear on New Years Eve as tradition. I was a bit . When I asked how he knew he said ‘ something I saw on MSN) . Nothing wrong with that in and of itself but it left me feeling compared a wondering .

OP. Do you really think this is a healthy relationship? Does it make you feel secure? Confident? Happy? Relaxed?

I think the answer is no to all of those things, which means this is an unhealthy relationship that is only continuing due to sunk cost fallacy and the fact you've been with horrible people in the past so by comparison he doesn't seem quite as bad.

@backseatcookers yup, I can’t disagree with you there damn sunken cost fallacy thing . It makes me happy at times as sometimes it’s good - and ofcourse the company is nice - but less and less so these days . I can’t deny the problematic dark clouds hanging over . Bottom line is the trust has gone I suppose , it’s just a matter of how long I’m willing to drag it out now . I’m aware that I’m the only one thinking there’s anything worth salvaging . I guess deep down it’s just deep disappointment to be let down by 2 people who were hugely prevalent in my life over the last 20 years. But I need to pull my socks up and face truths . I’m seeing a RL friend tomorrow who is always good at advising - first friend I’ve seen in nearly 4 months , so that will really help. Appreciate you mumsnetters , who’ve been invaluable to me when I can’t reach out to others at the moment . I have needed and been grateful for the perspectives you’ve given , harsh or not !! Thanks

I was about to post an update that we had sorted so much out this weekend - we’d had such a lovely time , talked everything through , I finally was able to put suspicions to bed and start afresh with new trust. It felt so good to have everything out in the open and discussed , including all of our insecurities , the sexual issues and the strange WhatsApp group . We sorted so much through.
Then tonight he fell asleep on the couch with his WhatsApp open . Ok , I know I shouldn’t have browsed , but I just wanted to have final confirmation that things are much better now - and that his friendship with best female friend was going along a bit more normally from the daily phonecalls and texts I discovered before . I looked down the chat list and to my surprise there is no longer a chat with her there anywhere - not as far back as February . She is usually near the top. He’s deleted that hasn’t he ? And started it up elsewhere ?
I looked at the WhatsApp calls and the last was over two weeks ago . That’s a long time ago for them.
I’m wondering if he’s phoning her / texting her on his other sim in that phone or on one of his other two phones now. I’m a bit baffled that she’s gone from his chat page.
It’s put a dampener on what was the first time in a long time I’d made peace with it all and began to trust again. It’s been such a good weekend - now this .
I know it’s my own fault for being nosey- but this wasn’t what I’d expected to see ( or not see as the case may be !) I’m really disappointed that he’s moved their chat to an unknown location. There’s no way they’ve stopped communicating and they haven’t fallen out. Does he not think it a bit strange to move it completely ? What if I saw somehow one day - to me it makes it so much more suspect . Hmm
Thoughts ?

The pattern will be that when you are face to face, just the two of you, you'll feel happy and enjoy being in a relationship. And then when he closes his eyes, or leaves, you'll remember that you don't trust him and that you have serious doubts about the relationship. I don't think there'll be a time that you'll carry the bliss back into reality because it's only bliss when reality is suspended.

It sounds like he is right not to trust you. I wonder if this continues if you might find that he decides to end it himself. There are so many red flags that you have your eyes open to, but you choose to ignore. It seems like what you want from this thread is the same sort of validation you are asking him for when you're with him, and I'd suggest that you need to do work on your self esteem, so that you can exist comfortably without other peoples validation. That's the only way I can make sense of it. Otherwise it just seems like you spend mon-thurs looking for faults in a relationship, and fri-sun looking for goodness in it. It's a strange kind of stasis to exist in.

I think you clearly don't want to end this relationship, but whether or not you stay in it you would really help yourself by working on your self worth. Whether that's in therapy or if you can't afford therapy just googling ways to increase self esteem

Thanks @peelingpaint
The irony is that I used to have such great self- esteem until 2 years ago . The old me would never have entertained all this
I went for a walk with a dear friend the other day and we spent 3 hours discussing this. Came away feeling like I knew what had to be done, only to see him and we launched into a good weekend.
It could be that I found out a couple of days before from ExH , that he is in a new relationship , which stung after the way he had treated me and our relationship ended. So maybe I’ve dived into a ‘good’ weekend to feel better about everything.
I agree I have work on myself to do and counselling may help - or just lots of time alone.
I just don’t get his need to hide that friendship even more now- when we’ve spent so much time talking about how healthy it is for us to be open with each other for things to work . Felt like we’d turned a corner this weekend , but maybe my eyes are shut because I’m desperately holding on to the idea of bliss- as you said . Thankyou

Re the female friend part - he admitted to me the other day that he deleted their whole 2 year chat as ‘that was in the past’ and he didn’t Want to read what he’d said back then ‘.
He said that there was stuff he’d said to her about our breakup that he didn’t want me to read - not very nice about me etc .
I thought deleting whole chat was a dodgy move and wondered where he might start one up again . Nevertheless, we talked it through and I said I would trust his reasons and we decided to move on ( struggling with that part evidently )
Last night I was about to go to sleep ( he’s back at his flat weekdays now) and went to message a goodnight on WhatsApp , realised that he was online on two devices as had two pages open . Thought that a bit odd. He said he had just got into bed and wanted to listen to an audiobook, but he normally does that in on his phone . I asked if I’d disturbed a phonecall or something ( it was past midnight for anyone in his country) and he typed that yes, he’d been talking to another friend and then her just before bed.
They had both not long finished shifts , but instead of eating etc , had done a late night call. I don’t have a way to see anything anymore now that they only do calls and am trying hard not to jump to conclusions , but after our trust chat at the weekend , it seems poor form of him to call her so late before/ whilst in bed. He had forgotten to message me that evening .
I was really pissed off and we’ve barely spoken since , but when he messages he isn’t particularly sorry and doesn’t seem to see a problem . He’s acting like it never happened now.
Would any of you mind this or am I being overly controlling . Either way it feels shitty

You're not happy with this guy OP.

He's weird in a lot of ways. I mean, weird is OK but most of his weird doesn't seem to be in a good way. ED is a real turn off for a start. You could have a guy where you could relax during sex and everything seems ok.