Help! Family divided...

[DistraughtFather]

Hello,

A few months ago, I left my wife. No one else involved, but we had just grown apart and the romance was gone completely. We were just living as friends really, and I felt I needed more than that. We did go to therapy etc., but nothing changed, and I was comfortable it was the right decision. Or at least I was until last night.

We have two young children together (both under 10). Also, I have another child, 12 years old, from a previous relationship, who lived with us for part of the week, and with his mother the rest of the week. Immediately after the split I moved in to a friend's spare room until I could find a place to live. Because of this, I could only visit the children (of both mothers) and take them out, not have them live with me. A couple of months ago, I got my own place, and since then the children (from both mothers, but not necessarily at the same times) have stayed with me frequently (2 or 3 nights each week), although we had not yet agreed to a particular schedule.

Yesterday, my STBX wife told me that she is moving 7 hours away to the town of her birth, to live with her sister. She's taking the children with her. She's being given a job in her family business (which does sound really good for her), and says that this, combined with better access to her family for support, is a good enough reason to relocate. I don't think she's trying to be malicious, she genuinely feels that this is the right thing to do.

I don't know what to do. 7 hours each way is too far to see my kids on a weekend, so I'm going to be confined to holidays only. I only get statutory minimum holidays, so at the very best I am now going to see my children for only 5 weeks of the year.

I can't move to be nearer to them either, as I can't leave my other son behind, and there is no way his mum would move up there with us! Also, my mother is quite elderly and relies heavily on me for practical support and companionship (I am an only child, so there's no one else), and there is no way she would agree to move!

I could try going to court to stop my wife moving away, but I'm worried that the court would count the benefits of the move (really good job, family support for my wife) to adequately compensate for dramatically reduced access to their father.

What the hell am I going to do? I can't stand the thought of seeing so little of my children.

I suppose I could ask my wife to take me back, but I doubt that she would agree now - and she seems to be very much looking forward to starting a new life.

@Grassnote

Wow, 10-20k would wipe out all of our savings - and we don't have a house to sell to raise any more! If it came down to a court battle my resources are limited to what is in the (joint!) account, while if it came to it her family are very well off and could help her with lawyers costs.

Why don't you apply for primary custody?

I think since you left her with the kids she is the default primary parent and gets to make the decisions, or are you in a position to continue to offer your family the same level of financial support indefinitely?

I don't get the sentiment that the kids would rather stay with their mother. If it was an equal relationship before splitting I'm sure your children love you birth equally and wouldn't be able to choose.

"There you go then - Southampton to Newcastle flights are cheaper than the train. You could agree to fly up every other month and she flies down with the dcs the alternate month."

Oh well that's sorted then.

Not sure why all the hostility towards you OP. I really feel for you

Yes it would be very expensive going to court. The cheaper option is mediation. You could apply for a prohibited steps order to prevent her leaving but this would go to court. Get legal advice asap.

@Ivyr0se

At the moment I'm paying for everything (my STBX wife doesn't work), and my income just about covers a modest life for her in that house (rented) and me in my new flat (rented). I didn't want to compound leaving with demanding she gets a job, so haven't broached the idea. That's one of the reasons I've not taken any steps to separate our finances yet.

I think if I asked the children who they'd prefer to live with, they would both say mummy. But that doesn't mean they don't love me - its just that I've been the one out to work, and their mum has always been at home.

In the end, it will be cheaper to go to court than face years of flying/driving to Newcastle. Borrow the money, do anything you can to keep your children in their familiar location with easy access to both parents.

So realistically financially she will have to return to work. You didn't need to broach it, she had already taken steps to return to the workplace.

What are her job prospects where she lives currently and are you able to split childcare to enable her full time return?

I can understand why she wants to move back closer to her home. It obviously made sense at the time to live in the place where your mother is but now that your wife's life is totally different I can completely understand why she wants to move closer to her own mother/ family.

I don't advocate asking the children who they want to live with I think that decision has to made in their best interest by their parents and if you can't agree then go to court.

I was suggesting asking for primary custody because it might get your wife to realise that you are willing to step up and be primary guardian, that way she could visit every weekend and work. It might suit her or else it might help her realise how difficult it would be for you.

It's a horrible situation but when relationships breakdown big changes obviously need to happen. I don't suggest staying in an unhappy marriage but it is predictable that she wouldn't continue to live in a house that is a stretch financially and so far away from her family's support.

@Ivyr0se

Her job prospects here aren't great. She isn't qualified in any trade or profession, so would need to take a minimum wage job, at least to start with. Not sure how easy that is right now with Covid. The job in her family business is much better than she could get for herself right now (more enjoyable work, and far, far more money).

In terms of childcare, I work a strict 9-5 locally, and so can do 50:50 childcare okay if we use an after-school club or something.

She stopped working when she had the kids because she wanted to be a full time mum. She had no intention of changing that before, but me leaving has probably had her feeling quite reliant on someone she is no longer married to, and so she (understandably) is now choosing to live her life differently.

There is no way she would consider me having primary custody. She's a lovely, kind and friendly person usually, but if I suggested that the kids live with me I think she might bury me under the patio!

If I was in this position and dh was trying to take my kids seven hours away and do every thing in my power to stop him. I honestly would.

No way would I wave good bye to my kids for months on end just so my ex can get a better job.

Why doesn’t she leave them with you?

Go and see a solicitor

There is no way she would consider me having primary custody. She's a lovely, kind and friendly person usually, but if I suggested that the kids live with me I think she might bury me under the patio

It’s not up to her. And tbh this is where a lot of dads fall at the first hurdle - they don’t fight enough for their kids.

I’m actually separating from dh ( same reasons) but if he pulled this I’d laugh in his face.

I do t know if your purposely trying to portray your self as the ‘nice guy’ because you think people won’t judge you or your actually that nice ( soft) you will happily watch you kids walk off in to the sunset because you don’t want to upset their mum.

If you don’t want your kids to leave ... fucking do something about it

UPDATE:

I've just got off the phone to my STBXs father (he called me). It's the first time we've spoken since I left his daughter.

He said that he wanted to explain what was going on. He explained that he had wanted to ensure his daughter and grandkids would be well looked after now that they are a single-parent household. He said that he was worried about their quality of life now that my income had to cover two houses etc., and that he and his family felt helpless to support his daughter over such a large distance.

Since they run their own business and needed extra help with it, he said it made sense for them to offer a job to their daughter (my STBXs sister also works in the family business), and they are able to pay her much more than she could get elsewhere. He said that this would enable the children to have a much better quality of life, particularly since she would not need accommodation because she could live with her sister (who has a huge house).

He said that they had looked at the financial side, and that I can keep all of our savings (around £15k) and the car. As I mentioned in a previous post we don't own a house. He said my STBX would waive child maintenance (she'll be on twice my money anyway, as well as having free accommodation), in return for me paying any transport costs to visit. He promised me that I would be able to stay in the Annex at STBXs sister's house any time I like, and that the children could stay overnight with me there.

He said that he understood that this would be difficult for me, but that they had sought legal advice and had been advised that in these circumstances it would be unlikely that a court would prevent her moving - the advantages financially, practically and emotionally are too great provided that moderately regular contact with me can be assured. He said he would happily show me the solicitor's letter if I'd like to see it, or I could seek my own legal advice if I wanted to.

Don't fall for it. You're being taken for a mug! There is no guarantee any of those things would happen unless you have a fixed court order. I've spoke to several solicitors who said if my case had gone to court it would not have a certain outcome despite having very good reasons for moving. Your children are older and you have other family there. Please go head and speak to several solicitors yourself. As another poster has said if you want to fight you will need to fight and say you are not happy and don't agree with the move and get as much legal advice as possible. You might want to post in legal section as well.

You have my sympathies op. Whilst I understand your wife would benefit from the move it will adversely affect your dc by not having a relationship with you.

You can go to court re this to try and out a stop to it but I'm not sure how successful you'll be. They will look at the needs of all concerned, children first and foremost. But this happened to a friend of mine and they voted in his wife's favour although he has a slightly weaker case that you.

Could you speak to your stbxw about becoming the primary care for the dc and they stay with you. That way they won't have to move schools etc, and your exw has them at some points during the holidays.

I do think your exw is being quite selfish. I wanted to move 5 hrs away and looked at it, but decided not to as it would take my dc away from their father. I've decided to put my move on hold until a much later date.

So your exfil thinks a better lifestyle is more important than a child seeing his father in a regular basis. I dont think money trumps access rights

Tbh I'd not believe a word he says, he cant guarantee anything and you may find once she's moved they go for the jugular re a divorce settlement and then still claim Cm. He's looking out for his dd, quite rightly, but you also need to look after you and the dc too.

There is no way she would consider me having primary custody. She's a lovely, kind and friendly person usually, but if I suggested that the kids live with me I think she might bury me under the patio

I'd be going to court for 50/50 access tbh.

Overall I think you need to speak to a family solicitor and find out exactly what you can do

I’m honestly not so sure a court would rule against the move.

A court ordering a single mum to live on a minimum wage job supporting two children as a posed to a good job, support and good housing whilst still maintaining regular calls/video calls and arranging regular in person contact would be vilified in the public if it got out just as if they ruled the stay at home parents primary care giver was suddenly stripped of full custody on the basis of seeking a better future for themselves and as such the children.

Non residential parents can move where ever they like making contact hard/impossible and you cannot court order them to stay in the area. Hell some parents live in completely different countries and children have happy relationships with both parents.

How’s he going to show you the letter

You don’t sound distraught to be honest. Your posts are calm and measured.

I think your leaning to letting them go and you came in here expecting loads of women to tell you to let them go.

How long have you been on MN as your posting feels familiar

What is to stop you going to court and applying to have the children the 90% of the time that she is proposing she has when she moves. Courts are far more e days to switching child residency to the father. Being the mother doesn't give us absolute rights.

She might not have thought that through?

While the move might be good for your ex, being moved away from their father and your side of the family is not going to be good for your children.

You need to go to court for a prohibited steps order or whatever it’s called, it’s not that difficult. But I 100% think you should do it, I think it’s horrendous when one parent forces their children to move away from their other, loving and involved parent. It changes the relationship forever, and it shouldn’t be allowed to happen without both parents agreement.

Please fight for your children, it’s almost like they are paying you £15k for them. That looks so bad. You have no guarantee they will let you stay in annexe, unless drawn up legally no way you can stop her claiming CMS. If they went to a solicitor and they said she would win then they wouldn’t be offering you all this!!

I don't like the sound of the fil. Why is he talking to you? To buy you or pressurise you into going along with their plan. I would book an hour with a solicitor and get their advice. Incidentally if they moved to Scotland would divorce rules be different there ie more favourable to her?

The only real option you have is to decide whether you move to be nearer and weigh up the pros and cons. You said yourself she is moving for the job opportunity and family help with childcare. It’s sounds for your ex and children this is a good move and better way of life for them. If you do go the court route perhaps you need to consider who it’s for - you or the kids or do you feel both? It sounds to be that you are understandably hurting, in shock about the move and concerned about other responsibilities you have (another child and your Mum). You decided to end the relationship and split the family up but you can’t expect or tell your ex where to live to fit your own personal circumstances. You’ll always be their Dad.

My heart hurts for you. That's a long way to move with kids involved.

@Jkslays

I assume he would photograph the letter and text it to me. I have asked him to see it, just in case he's bluffing.

I definitely feel distraught, but pretty numb too.

It feels a bit like I'm David and she's Goliath (certainly when backed by her family). And if I fight and lose, I'll be in a worse position than if I don't fight at all.

@Doidontimmm

It really did feel like being offered money for my kids.

Not that it's relevant, but my STBX in laws never really approved of their daughter marrying me and moving away. They never approved of me as I was married before, had a kid, don't have any letters after my name, don't own my own house, and don't earn all that much. They were cordial enough with me, but the cynical part of me feels that they are actually glad things have worked out this way, so that they can bring their daughter (and grandkids) back into the fold.

I'm going to make an appointment with a solicitor tomorrow.

Go to court. Your children's right to a relationship with you and their other sibling is more important than their mum getting a better job.

If the judge doesn't agree (which I would find hard to believe when they have a good dad desperate to maintain the relationship) then as the adult who moved then she needs to facilitate the visits so that will be a lot if driving.