Misogynist husband. Divorce?

[itchyfinger]

My husband is generally a good one, a good dad and we get along well most of the time, though not always.

Last night we had a fight, and the subject is something that's cropped up a few times in our relationship, and it's making me wonder if we are fundamentally so so different and whether I can be with him/raise my kids with him.

We were watching a TV show, and he started complaining that there were "too many women" in it, and how it's not equality for woman if a cast is almost all women I started off quite calmly explaining that the balance of women in TV needs to be redressed, but everytime I started to speak he would roll his eyes and interrupt me by swearing and muttering under his breath. This happened every SINGLE time I tried to talk, and eventually the argument blew up, with him calling me a stupid crazy feminist and, eventually, a cunt. Throughout this I didn't name call once or swear, I was trying to stick to the argument about women on TV, but, as with many disagreements I have with him he starts swearing and namecalling and eye rolling.

As I said, this argument around womens rights has come up a few times. Once he said that more women lie about being raped than are actually raped. This blew up too and it's always stuck with me that he said that. Other gems have been that we dont live in a patriarchal society because we have a queen and that he hates lesbians who make themselves look like men.

I know he is a misogynist. But what do I do? I dont want my kids being brought up hearing this shit (I have a boy and a girl), but equally I dont think i want to split up and have a broken family, he does have some very good parts of him.

I know this post is going to make people really angry but I'm crying as I write this because it's really tearing me apart. I feel like staying with him when I know this is how he feels is being dishonest to myself and my kids, but splitting up seems very dramatic.

LannieDuck you say OP's DH needs to see that her views are as valid as his - but they are not. They are less valid. The things he has said about false rape claims, patriarchal society and lesbians have zero validity.

I would consider only two things here OP.

1. Do you want to stay with someone that is only a decent human being when they are getting their own way and you are agreeing with his world view?

2. Do you want to stay with someone that called you a cunt?

I wouldn't spend another day in the same house as someone that called me a cunt.

This would be a dealbreaker for me. What happens when your daughter grows up and starts voicing her views, or possibly turns out to be a lesbian or worse case, is assaulted? The fact I would even have to worry about that would put me off him permenantely.

In addition, he clearly doesn't respect your views and doesn't think you should be heard. I also expect this is the tip of the iceberg of what he actually thinks.

His stated attitude to rape is utterly disgusting. How did he attempt to justify it?? Men who hold views like that are rapists themselves, more often than not.

I wouldn’t jump straight to divorce. I think you two are a great fit for councelling. The name calling is not on and he needs to respect your views.

Unlike some other posters I believe he can still be a good dad apart from this. Some of your comments remind me of my own dad who can also hold strong views, be a bit sexist in my opinion and dismissive when I have a different opinion. Drives me crazy.. but his still a great dad and I’ve still grown up to have a mind of my own.

His upbringing probably had a lot to do with the way he is and sometimes it takes something to make them realise what they are doing. Councelling is great for that.’

@LannieDuck I cant get on board with his views though, and I dont want them to be passed on to my children. I really really dont. I would never want our DC to hear their parent complain about there being too many women on TV, or to instill negative beliefs on lesbians.

I've asked him about counselling (hes at work and refusing to talk to me other than whatsapp), hes said he doesnt want to. So I guess that tells me all I need to know. I'm not going to speak to him for the rest of the day, this has drained me.

LannieDuck you say OP's DH needs to see that her views are as valid as his - but they are not. They are less valid. The things he has said about false rape claims, patriarchal society and lesbians have zero validity.

I agree with you (although I think you mean more valid).

It's two separate issues which I agree are complex to unwind - one: that OP (and her views) is equal to him, two: that his views are misogynistic and therefore dangerous to her kids.

we dont live in a patriarchal society because we have a queen

I could maybe stay married to a rape apologist who called me a cunt, but I could never have sex with someone that stupid.

The thing I wonder is, what does it mean long term to be a woman married to a man who thinks women have no worth?

You can't trust him to care for you and love you the way a spouse should because he thinks he's more important than you.

I also wonder how many women he's raped. I always presume men who excuse rape have a few under their belt.

This is the man who will teach your son how to relate to women. I would really not want to be raising a young man whilst lending my approval to that kind of poisonous rhetoric.

I'm not surprised you're feeling sad. Can you love someone knowing this about them?

What exactly does a BAD husband and father look like to you?

This was my dad. He was not a good husband or father and I would respect my mother far more if she hadn't forced me to live with it. (You know it'll escalate when the kids hit puberty, right?)

He calls you a cunt but you say he isn't abusive. OP please adjust your boundaries and your vision of this prince among men (sarcasm). The bad out weighs the good 10:1 here.

You can leave without ever having to tell him why. Is it that you feel obliged to formulate EXACTLY how you feel because you will be pressured into explaining it? Don't. Vibrate on a higher plane and walk away without making the effort to explain. He doesn't deserve your attempts at educating him quite honestly.

Once he said that more women lie about being raped than are actually raped.

Other gems have been that we dont live in a patriarchal society because we have a queen and that he hates lesbians who make themselves look like men.

And you say he's a good dad?

Hard to be a good dad when you aren't a good person surely?

He sounds awful.

Men who think this way hate women really. They think they should know their place, do as their told and always sacrifice their happiness, money and more for men. Which is hateful.

You have a daughter - do you want her to learn to accept that?

You have a son - do you want him to learn to behave like that?

I couldn't be with someone who was so clearly a misogynist.

He is also a bully, he's bullying you. Because you're a woman and deep down, he hates them.

Why is his view of feminists more important than your marriage? To him. He is happy just spouting whatever bullshit he feels fit regardless of tact or diplomacy. It’s shitty really. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life listening to his crap? If not, get out sooner rather than later. You could end up meeting somebody lovely! Why deny yourself that chance.

The point is his view is not as valid.
Women are an oppressed minority, fact.

No wonder misogyny is alive and kicking when even women say this.
Does he not understand that we only have a Queen because she did not have a brother who would automatically superseed her to the thrown. How on earth can anyone say that women enjoy as much priveledge as men.
Would he accept getting zero inheritance because he has a penis?

Would that be ok because that it what has been happening for centuries.
I would start by telling him to stop being disrespectful to you.
I would then moan every single time a drama or film had a male lead character and when he questions you say well this is what it is like for me every time the roles are reversed.

@itchyfinger
You said I haven't said that I dont want to end the marriage. I am utterly torn by this.
Have you reviewed your financial options to see how you'd manage if you were to separate/divorce? Looked at what benefits you'd be entitled to? Looked at jobs that you'd be qualified for and consider applying to? Looked at studying to improve your employment chances? Do you have any savings and/or pension of your own? How would you manage childcare?

You don't have to answer those questions here but, if you haven't already, I'd think about the answers and how you could cope if/when you decided to leave. Perhaps knowing the answers and, perhaps, seeing you could manage or, possibly thrive, would make you feel more confident about what to do next?

Perhaps having this information might help you decide on next steps. Maybe also check www.gov.uk for benefits incl childcare and www.entitledto.co.uk. Look online for jobs you might be interested in and review the prerequisites and salaries offered. You don't have to make a decision to leave now if you can't or don't want to but do know your options.

Also maybe it would be useful for you to have some counselling with a neutral professional on your own to help you work through your position and maybe come to a solution which would work for you and your children.

Good luck OP. 🌹

imagine your DS in 20 years time saying the exact same thing to his partner.

imagine your daughter accepting being called a cunt because she learned in her home it is normal for women to be verbally abused.

Removing your children from a toxic environment is not braking up a family, it is protecting them and yourself.

I don't think I could stand to live with someone as utterly stupid as this. You'll end up despising him, if you don't already.

Just wishing you lots of strength, OP.

This must be really hard to deal with, but please don't feel you have to put up with his crap indefinitely. It won't get any better and it WILL make you and your children very unhappy.

All the best

Depends what the show is. If for instance he was watching mens cricket and there was a majority of female commentators etc then I would say he was right, there were too many women. So in that instance where former male players have always done commentary and female journalists force there way into it I would say he’s correct. It was wrong for them to do so.

Same goes for some male fictional shows. It’s fine for men to have their own fantasy and things which cater to them, I do think it’s wrong for women to try to force their way into everything men make and then change it to their tastes, just as it would be if men did the same. If your talking about something which is obviously targeted at women though then it’s a pretty dumb comment.

Regardless different views need to go exist in marriage otherwise (as you see) it breaks up. One thing is I really wouldn’t count your divorcing his dad over this having a positive impact on the way your son sees women. If anything he may embrace these views more.

I agree with this, and also with the poster who said the way he talks to you is more important than the views he holds. I'd really advise making your first move counselling, and then if he continues to treat you with disrespect, then you may need to end the marriage.

The most telling comment is "he thinks feminists are crazy, angry lefties"

He's starting down the pale, stale male rabbit hole here.

I mean you could try the sarcasm route, oh yes sorry you have a mighty penis, the mighty penis must speak, only the mighty penis can speak. Only mighty penises should be allowed on TV and only straight ones at that, or perhaps not at least gay mighty penises would be mainly men, or are they not the mighty penis men you mean.

The truth is, he’s always been this guy but for some reason you didn’t delve too deeply into who you were marrying or having children with. What can you do? Your choices are limited to sucking it up and letting the resentment poison your marriage, pushing back and the conflict becoming toxic or getting the hell out.

This is who he, his views are so deeply entrenched that him becoming a non toxic man isn’t on the horizon.

@Enny70 you know women play professional sport as well? Not all pundits are ex-players either.

And males do have much made for them, enter Guy Richie!

The issue is balance and the toxic baby males can't cope. So decide to spout off nonsense and blame everyone else. It's total poison.

@frozendaisy

whatvIm saying is if it’s just some new show or obviously catering to women then he’s in the wrong. However in the case of something like mens test cricket where virtually all commentators commenting on the mens game used to be past players of the mens game, it is wrong that that be expanded to women simply because women want it. It would be the same if it was all female past players for a woman’s sport and some man just came and said I want to commentate on this so you have to let me. It’s fine for men to have things of their own and vice versa.

I agree women should be given every chance to have their own shows and sports too and some things can be more mixed - however I do kind of agree that whenever something is obviously catering to men - there is a modern trend that this must change to include more women and be more female friendly.

Yes guy Ritchie is for men but let’s be real - only idiots enjoy that kind of stuff. I’m think more of things like James Bond having to become female friendly and constantly show Bond being shown up by strong females. For things like that I think it’s fine they remain a male fantasy - and it’s fine for things to be a female fantasy too - and it’s fine for somethings to be joint.

The issue and bitterness comes when women are allowed to express themselves but men don’t feel like they can have their own things and express themselves without it being approved by women.

You might say that’s just outdated thinking but I’m a teacher and hear this a lot from teenage boys and I think it’s on the increase in a big way. If we can’t let men have their own things maybe they will just say it’s not worth it?

Over the years I realised my ex H was misogynistic, homophones and xenophobic. I am not sure if he just got worse with time, or if his mask slipped.

I think he was careful about what he said but our kids know full well what he's like .
I think your kids will pick up on it.

I kick myself for staying, I should have called it quits years before we did split. Living with someone like that is draining.

This is what happened to me. On the surface, I thought my H supported me. Encouraged me to go forward in my career, go out and have fun, join a gym…but I gradually realised he actually sabotaged me when I tried to do these things. I still did most of them but I wound up infuriated as I left. Then I realised he was misogynistic- for example he loved al things Marvel but refused to watch one series because it had a female lead! Didn’t think he’d enjoy it (even though I said it was great)…it’s gradual revelations. A friend said he seemed controlling and maybe even abusive. I absolutely refuted it! No! He was a sensitive and caring man, great Dad…but it adjusted the blinkers…

Then we get to the broken part. I’ve worked part time since DD was born. My choice, I wanted to be around when she was small and do some school runs etc but still have a career. I did most of the housework because I worked less hours and was okay with that (although it caused some tension because he was lazy in that he couldn’t even be arsed to get his washing in the washing basket at times).
Then I had an injury that meant I was very physically limited for a few months. My God did he resent me! Even though I did a lot of the “mental load” like organise hot dinners for our DD, organised the washing (just couldn’t carry it downstairs), meal planned and did online shops, he resentment was palpable. Then another friend said he was being controlling and that there were elements of DV, and suddenly I realised I was indeed in a toxic relationship. I often say my injury was the straw that broke the camel’s back. He resented doing the “wife work”, he clearly saw it as my job. Even said “You owe me x number of loads of the dishwasher”. A joke, apparently 🤔 In the end, we separated. I feel like a weight has been lifted. I genuinely feel taller because I hold myself better now. People say I seem like a different person. I hadn’t realised how much he was bringing me down until I stepped away. Yes he still has DD EOW but she says it’s nice to be living without the arguments and shouting.

I would suggest you get individual counselling to plan your way forward. Look at getting back to work. I know your old company let you down but one good thing that’s come out of Covid is the evidence people can do flexible working/WFH more. Get your ducks in a row and make a plan. 6 months on for me I have no regrets.