Misogynist husband. Divorce?

[itchyfinger]

My husband is generally a good one, a good dad and we get along well most of the time, though not always.

Last night we had a fight, and the subject is something that's cropped up a few times in our relationship, and it's making me wonder if we are fundamentally so so different and whether I can be with him/raise my kids with him.

We were watching a TV show, and he started complaining that there were "too many women" in it, and how it's not equality for woman if a cast is almost all women I started off quite calmly explaining that the balance of women in TV needs to be redressed, but everytime I started to speak he would roll his eyes and interrupt me by swearing and muttering under his breath. This happened every SINGLE time I tried to talk, and eventually the argument blew up, with him calling me a stupid crazy feminist and, eventually, a cunt. Throughout this I didn't name call once or swear, I was trying to stick to the argument about women on TV, but, as with many disagreements I have with him he starts swearing and namecalling and eye rolling.

As I said, this argument around womens rights has come up a few times. Once he said that more women lie about being raped than are actually raped. This blew up too and it's always stuck with me that he said that. Other gems have been that we dont live in a patriarchal society because we have a queen and that he hates lesbians who make themselves look like men.

I know he is a misogynist. But what do I do? I dont want my kids being brought up hearing this shit (I have a boy and a girl), but equally I dont think i want to split up and have a broken family, he does have some very good parts of him.

I know this post is going to make people really angry but I'm crying as I write this because it's really tearing me apart. I feel like staying with him when I know this is how he feels is being dishonest to myself and my kids, but splitting up seems very dramatic.

No offence OP but he IS abusive. He shuts you down, shouts and calls you names. Just him shutting down when you speak to him about this is called stonewalling and that alone counts as emotional abuse.

I disagree with what someone above said though about not doing counselling with someone if abusive. Odds are that much like you he doesn't realise that this is abuse or that he's even doing it. Counselling could highlight these things and you'd have an impartial third party telling him that it's abuse, so can't be dismissed the way it would be if it was a claim made by you. It does all depend on him wanting to be a better person though - but again if counselling shows that he's unwilling to make those changes it's equally helpful for you to make a decision on whether to leave him or not.

I doubt if he would agree to couunselling anyway- if you mentioned it then inwardly he'd be like 'STFU you stupid woman.' You could try suggesting it and see what his response is.

OP, it might suit you to raise your DC with a misogynistic homophobic arsehole, but it won’t suit your DC, especially your DD.

If you want a DS who treats women like shit, and a DD who has been brought up to expect men to treat her like shit then crack on with this arsehole, but if you don’t then you know what has to be done.

If you do stay with him I pity the amount of self loathing your DD will internalise, and god help her when she’s old enough for all the routine sexual harassment and sexual assault we all have to endure, and even more god help her if she turns out to be a lesbian, or she comes home one day devastated because she’s been raped.

Calling someone a cunt is abusive. You clearly dont want to end the marriage so I would focus on,at a minimum,letting your children know his views are wrong. I dont know if this is even good advise but it is better than nothing I suppose.

Odds are that much like you he doesn't realise that this is abuse or that he's even doing it. Counselling could highlight these things and you'd have an impartial third party telling him that it's abuse, so can't be dismissed the way it would be if it was a claim made by you

Haha at the thought of someone like this listening to a third party. If your partner has to be told by a third party not to be abusive then he is a child in an adults body.

This is what happens with normal humans. We learn in childhood what hurts other people. And we stop doing it because our empathy kicks in. We don't need to be told what hurts other people when we're already in an established relationship as an adult.

Op get counselling for yourself to understand why you would tolerate such awful behaviour from someone who claims to care.

Abusers are so entrenched in their carefully constructed victim mentality that unless a counsellor is well versed in abuse they may fall for his poor lost boy character.

Hi Juno

re your comment:-
"I disagree with what someone above said though about not doing counselling with someone if abusive. Odds are that much like you he doesn't realise that this is abuse or that he's even doing it. Counselling could highlight these things and you'd have an impartial third party telling him that it's abuse, so can't be dismissed the way it would be if it was a claim made by you"

Practically all organisations who work with victims of abuse do not recommend joint counselling if there is abuse of any type within the relationship. This is also because such people can and do actively try to manipulate counsellors into taking "their" side in counselling sessions.

In the OPs case this man certainly knows what he is doing here.
Abusers, even if they do agree to being counselled need far more than say six sessions. They need years of therapy and have to stick with it. They also have to take responsibility for their actions and that scenario too rarely if ever happens.

In order for couples counseling to be successful, both partners must be willing to take responsibility for their actions and make adjustments to their behaviour. Abusive people want all of the power and control in the relationship and will focus on maintaining that imbalance, even if it means continuing unhealthy and hurtful behavior patterns.

There are many people trying and “failing” at couples counseling because of an abusive partner’s focus on manipulating the sessions to place blame, minimize the abuse, and attempt to win over the therapist to their side. If the therapist tries to hold the abusive partner accountable for these tactics, they will often refuse to attend further sessions and may even forbid their partner to see the “biased” therapist again. The abusive partner may even choose to escalate the abuse because they feel their power and control was threatened.

The primary reason couples counselling is not recommended is that abuse is not a “relationship problem.” Couples counselling may imply that both partners contribute to the abusive behavior, when the choice to be abusive lies solely with the abusive partner. Focusing on communication or other relationship issues distracts from the abusive behavior, and may actually reinforce it in some cases. Additionally, a therapist may not be aware that abuse is present and inadvertently encourage the abuse to continue or escalate.

He wouldn't object to counselling, he is not a complete neanderthal as much as these issues would suggest. Which is why I'm struggling. He is sensitive in many ways and he does nice things for me and he is a good dad. But impossible to speak to about anything he doenst agree with, and has sexist views

Women in poor relationships often write the "good dad" comment when they themselves can think of nothing else positive to write about their man.

Do you really think he is a good dad to his children if he can and does treat you, and in turn them, like he has done?. Don't be this dishonest to your own self here.

If my husband called me the c. I would throw all his belongings out the window. Wow. I cannot believe this.

What about films like little women they are about about of women. And actions moves are mainly fixated around men with mostly men watching them. It's just the way movies are. Doesnt mean a woman cannot enjoy an action film and a man cannot enjoy something like a romantic drama.

I mean seriously. He doesn't sound great. And the children will hear and learn from this. I have 4, and another one on the way. They need a role model for a father. Not someone like this. You cant change his views and opinions but you can point out to him what was wrong with his statements. I wish you all the best and send lots of love.

More women lie about rape than are raped??

I’d never be able to respect him after he’d said that. Horrible nasty man.

It's not just a misogyny/homophobia problem, it's a respect problem. Sounds like he's a fan of starting the arguments and then doing everything in his power to win them. Would you accept consistently being shouted down by a colleague? A friend? Some random bloke on the street?

Also invalidating your emotions because he doesn't share them is toxic and boorish. If you were just dating him with no children I would say get rid, but I understand that it's not just your relationship you have to consider. I hope you're able to find a resolution/have him be more respectful whether it results in divorce or not OP

If it helps, I had a far healthier relationship with my father after he and my mum split. It was at the age of five but I still have memories of them fighting

Essentially he believes he is more important than you. That his existence is more valuable.

I couldn't live like that.

I had counselling with my husband (triggered by different reasons) and we identified a communication issue. I wouldn't have said my husband was sexist (I consider myself a feminist so couldn't imagine being married to someone who didn't support me) but he would occasionally say things that I worried me (for example, a big one was his view on positive discrimination in his industry). Since counselling has improved our communication, we are so much happier - we regularly discuss issues in depth and debate rather than argue. I really feel like he hears me, respects my opinions and I have a better understanding of what he's trying to say. Obviously counselling may not work in your situation, especially if he is abusive, but it might be worth a try if you are unsure what your next step is.

OP, the eye-rolling and calling you a cunt show that he has contempt for you.

I would often disagree or argue with my ex husband, but neither of us did that sort of thing - because we never had contempt for eachother.

Whereas the abusive ex? Yeah, lots of that going on from his side.

You won't get him to see your point of view ever, because your point of view is not important to him. You do not matter to him as a person, only as a tool. Kind of like me and my car. I love my car. I wash it and polish it, have bought expensive mats for it, I follow its service schedule precisely and maintain it exactly as I should.

But deep down, I don't like cars in general. They are the cause of too much pollution. However much I love it, it is still a car. If it breaks down, I'll get a new one. And whilst I will probably feel fleeting sadness at seeing it go, the new car will soon be my focus. I certainly don't care for any opinions my car may have.

I think you'll find this is the way your husband views you.

Let's hope you don't ever break down, because I have a feeling you will then see the full contempt he has for you coming out unfiltered.

I haven't said that I dont want to end the marriage. I am utterly torn by this. Of course I would like to fix everything, for him not to think like this, to at least try and educate himself and to be able to communicate in a better way. But I understand that's a huge ask and he may not be up to it, in which case yes I do need to end it. As a PP said he will still has access to the children and he will still hold those views, but at least I wont be condoning them by being with him. And I wont be exposing my kids to awful arguments where their mum gets told to shut up. I know this is the better option.

He is telling you loud and clear during these arguments who he is, you should listen to it and hopefully find the strength to take action. His views on women are NOT ok, not ok at all. Kinda makes my skin crawl especially as you say how well he hides these views to everyone else.

I knew it was over with my ex when he yelled at me, in front of the kids, "why are you such a fucking feminist".... in response to what started as a calm conversation about women in sport. How can I be with a man who doesn't see me as an equal because I'm a woman? And how can I let him model that behaviour in front of our kids? Breaking up with him might not change him being misogynist but it does stop me either showing the kids that it's acceptable behaviour by accepting it myself or subjecting them to frequent arguments.

I honestly think you can't be with a partner who doesn't share your values and the values you want to instill in your kids, either in terms of how you want them to behave or what you want them to accept from others.

This bloke has said some truly horrendous things to you. You deserve better

He wouldn't object to counselling, he is not a complete neanderthal as much as these issues would suggest.

Try asking, then. And also see if he actually attends for any length of time, or implements any of the techniques suggested.

I had counselling with my husband (triggered by different reasons) and we identified a communication issue

Had your husband been calling you a c*nt though?

And I wont be exposing my kids to awful arguments where their mum gets told to shut up.

They hear some of this stuff, then?

I can understand why it's emotionally and practically hard to leave a relationship. What I can't understand is why you think it will be worse for your children if you break up the family than if you stay and expose them to this damaging family dynamic where you (and your daughter) are considered lesser humans and your son learns that this is how women should be viewed.

“He is sensitive in many ways and he does nice things for me and he is a good dad“

Wow he does nice things sometimes how fucking amazing. You know no one is an arsehole 100% of the time right?

You know you could be with someone who is nice all the time.

@Regularsizedrudy that was in response to another poster asking me what he was like in other ways. Please dont patronise me with sarky responses, I came to the Relationships board, not AIBU. I am the one in this very difficult position and trying to do the best for my children.

There's a chance that if he realises he will lose his family from this behaviour he may accept counselling - but probably only if the therapist is male.
These deep down attitudes are hard to change. And as you can see they are easily passed down.
Children absorb so much. They will grow up knowing how dad really feels about mum.
Can you go back to work? Perhaps having more independence will change the balance of power.

You need to be able to hold different views to him, and he needs to accept that your views are just as valid as his.

Perhaps counselling can help you achieve that, but if not... I'm not sure whether I could stay in that relationship.