People who are having an affair? How are you managing during lockdown

[Sosweetmylovelygirl]

Just that really ! Are you missing your lover? How are you managing not seeing them during lockdown? I’m curious.

@Faye1284
@Namechangebackwards that's not what I mean. I don't believe in karma. Maybe read it again. For the record, I haven't been cheated on in my marriage but my father cheated on my mother and it was devastating the watch.

And so it finally comes out. You are bitter about the experience even though you weren’t cheated on directly. No wonder you’re so vehement. Those of us who pinpointed your behaviour were right after all.

@JingsMahBucket 'pinpointed my behaviour' 🤣🤣 as if there's something wrong with me because I don't condone cheating. It doesn't make me bitter because I don't condone cheating? I don't condone cheating because I'm a decent person. Even if my childhood is the cause for me being against cheating, is that really a bad thing if it instilled a bit of empathy for others in me? Good night.

@Faye1284 but you’re not showing any empathy towards anyone with a different opinion to you!
You come across as very bitter!

Guys I have been the first the argue with @Faye1284 and get my opinion across but I think it's going a bit far now/been covered.

Of course you'd be upset/bitter/angry about you parents going through that. Doesn't need unearthing as proof of unreasonableness.

None of us are going to convince the others we're right so perhaps we could stick to discussing what and why as this has gotten very close to being attacking in the last couple of days - on both sides.

I don't thing anyone 'condones' cheating Faye1284, in the normal course of events but MN is often a very naive absolutist forum with what appears to be little understanding of the complications of real life.

Until very recent years, leaving your wife/mother of your children meant being condemned to seeing your children every other weekend - and then only after a long long fight through the courts , often many months without seeing children at all. During which time the angry heartbroken spouse either intentionally or unintentionally alienates the children of the marriage against the father.

If you are married to someone you know them well enough to guess how they will deal with you leaving and how they will deal with sharing contact with the children.

My DH knew EXACTLY what the reaction would be, that is why we embarked on an affair. He didn't love his then wife but loved his dc immensely.

However he realised very quickly that it would be no solution and only made life at home even more unbearable. So took a leap of faith and left, hoping that there would be 'reasonable' behaviour regarding dcs.. of course it wasn't - ten years in and out of the family court in some sort of competitive misery contest. Things only really changed when Dsc able to vote with their feet.

With the recent improvement in the speed of hearings in family court AND the starting point for contact with children being 50/50, -there is now much less reason to stay in an unhappy/unfulfilling marriage in order to have a meaningful relationship with your children. Leaving to start a new relationship without them - should become a thing of the past.

This scenario has rarely applied to women because if they want a new relationship they simply take the children with them.

Then there are all kinds of problems when it comes to illness both mental and physical. I for one know a marriage where one spouse is dreadfully unhappy - has been for years - but knows for certain that the other spouse will commit suicide if they left. Is the first party wrong to find happiness outside the marriage with a very understanding AP ? Or should they stay , being held emotionally hostage for the next 30/40 years. ? Or be held responsible for the death of the other.

In this set up the adult children are desperate for the parent having the affair to continue to do so - and live in dread of them coming clean and leaving. The affair has been going on for over 15 years. The AP is a lovely, caring, empathetic individual who loves my friend honestly and truly. Not the sort of person normally painted on here as the 'ow/om' ..

Life is complicated. Platitudes are just that. 'Once a cheater - always a cheater ' particularly annoying.. sometimes people just marry the wrong person and extricating themselves is messy sometimes impossible.

Here Here squirrel!

@McTits I reserve my empathy for those that have been wronged, not those that CHOOSE to inflict pain on others. There's a huge difference.

This thread has come out in huge support for people that cheat and inflict pain on others but completely ignored the pain of people on the receiving end of it and bullied those that won't accept cheating is excusable.

I'm now being told that because I won't accept that there are 'legitimate excuses' for cheating my opinion is invalid and I'm naive, bitter and damaged by my past experiences. That is gaslighting!!!!

I wonder what past experiences led to people thinking it's ok to cheat on their partners? Or that it's ok to hurt others? Or to accept being the OW?

This thread has come out in huge support for people that cheat and inflict pain on others but completely ignored the pain of people on the receiving end of it

Because every single other thread on MN in about support for the people on the receiving end.

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

I understand all about complicated Situations. A close relative embarked on an affair because her husband wasn’t meeting her needs. Much like the people on here.

The AP was also a lovely caring person who loved my relative very much. He was a hard working doctor who probably saved babies lives on a daily basis. I’m sure he gave to charity and loved pets and was probably vegan.

However all these complications and all that loveliness and sweetness and charitable giving surprisingly meant nothing to my relative’s husband when he found out that his wife was cheating with his truly lovely, sweet and kind friend.

He didn’t seem to get the reasons why, the complications, how his wife was unhappy and unfulfilled. He didn’t understand the beauty, sweetness and purity of their affair. How it was special and about companionships and connection and not tawdry like other people’s affairs.

Unlike a PP , he didn’t think that his black and white judgements about the affair were laughable . He didn’t find anything funny about the situation at all.

Sadly he was naive and absolutist and hanged himself in their bedroom.

He was 28.

"bullied those that won't accept cheating is excusable"

Oh come on Faye, read the thread back and look at the language being used about people who have affairs. How can you characterise this thread as you and others with your opinion being bullied, giving the language you and yours have used?

NotmyNigel The wife was not responsible for the husband committing suicide. We all have to take responsibility for being able to manage the crap we come across in our life. And I speak as someone who has had to do that myself in devastating circumstances. You go through a period of blaming the other and then you have to take responsibility for rebuilding your own life.

Hello folks - we're just dropping in with a reminder that our Talk Guidelines still apply, even on the most divisive subjects. We don't mind robust disagreement - but we must ask that you don't resort to personal attacks.

Thanks.

I understand all about complicated Situations. A close relative embarked on an affair because her husband wasn’t meeting her needs. Much like the people on here

He didn’t seem to get the reasons why, the complications, how his wife was unhappy and unfulfilled. He didn’t understand the beauty, sweetness and purity of their affair. How it was special and about companionships and connection and not tawdry like other people’s affairs

Yes. I suppose he wouldn't 'get it', what with his wife despite her 'needs not being met', still choosing to stay with him whilst shagging both him & someone else.

I guess he met her needs in terms of being there for ease and convenience of shared home and family life, sharing those bills too so the affair-ee doesn't have to go it alone in those respects.

It's often the case that people having affairs never admit it's just a fantasy life alongside the life they want. Stability with a bit of spice from time to time. Of the people I do know who have affairs, they don't leave their comfort zone (that they claimed was a discomfort zone) unless or until they're pushed.

Easier to not own your actions instead choose to explain it all away without admitting the core truth of it.

NotMyNigel, thats so sad

@NotMyNigel why blame the woman? Did she try to address things with her husband before having an affair and he didn’t get it? Even after the affair was discovered you said he didn’t understand the reasons.

My point is that it’s not necessarily fair to blame someone for the suicide of another.

This thread is so hypercritical. An OP posted earlier about how she had an affair whilst struggling with mental health/depression (I'm not judging just stating a fact) and it was accepted, no one challenged it. Then another OP tells a story that of how a betrayed spouse committed suicide and was told that that person should have 'taken responsibility' for what happened to them because we all have crap lives. Unbelievable.

People can't always control their mental health. Especially when something that traumatic happens....but that's just not accepted here is it?

I'm not suggesting anyone else should be held responsible for someone committing suicide and threatening someone with suicide is abuse but it does need to be recognised that the trauma of affairs runs deep.

Even after the affair was discovered you said he didn’t understand the reasons.

Classic blaming of the victim

The wife was not responsible for the husband committing suicide. We all have to take responsibility for being able to manage the crap we come across in our life. And I speak as someone who has had to do that myself in devastating circumstances

I’m sorry to hear you’ve been through such hard times. But I didn’t say that the wife was responsible for his death, although I’m not sure his mother would agree.

However I think that the wife was 100% responsible for her own actions. Unlike all the AP here who are apparently NOT responsible for their own choices because .

The people who say “ You can’t just judge until you know all the circumstances “. Although they themselves don’t know all the circumstances because they haven’t spoken to the betrayed spouse and got their side of the story .

“ All the circumstances “ to them means “ whatever my AP has told me. Along with “ well yes I know he lies to his wife because she’s not special but I am special so he would never lie to me”.

Honestly I think I prefer the people who say

“ Yes I’m shagging a married man / woman but I don’t care, I’m Single, it’s not my issue, s/he gives me money / is good in bed / we have fun / whatever “.

To the ones who simper about true lurve and how his wife’s a bunny boiler / evil bully / child abuser / religious /overweight / doesn’t give him enough sex/ has cancer / earns more and so he can’t leave.

And how he’s such a wonderful father that he can’t cope with not seeing his children every day. Except the 5 days a week he’s at work, the two nights a week he’s playing sport and the two nights a week and weekends he’s with me of course. That’s when his evil disturbed fat religious sex refusing cancer riddled wife is looking after them. She’s such a cow.

@Bigchris - thank you, it was awful. It’s destroyed his family, his mother had a breakdown and has never recovered.

I think when people cheat they are pretty oblivious to the excruciating pain and damage they can cause to the person they betray.
Many people think it must be like that time their boyfriend slept with another girl, or when they snogged someone else before ending their relationship, or when they had a holiday romance and kept it up when they were dating.
It’s absolutely nothing like that of course. In a marriage, the lies, deceit, gaslighting and betrayal can destroy someone and anyone who has been through it can tell you it fundamentally changes them. And yes, it can lead to suicides. But more often it just casts a long shadow on their lives and relationships.

More often, people just shouldn’t be with the person they are cheating on. There is something wrong in the relationship. If it’s abusive, they can often bd forgiven for having an ‘exit affair’ that gives them the strength to leave.
But just as often the person betrayed simply shouldn’t be with the cheating partner. They just don’t fully know it. The people who say there is no abuse, just that things have gone stale. So hold their partner to a promise that they themselves break. That’s where it just becomes grotesque to talk about being rigid in thinking or ‘moralistic’.
There are lots of reasons to con old ladies out of their money - probably one or two sob stories about debt and drug addiction. It doesn’t mean it’s ok.
Cheating is conning someone out of their life, stealing their trust, their self worth, their life story. It is not just humiliating, it’s damaging and traumatic.

So, a bit like revenge porn, I can understand the motivation-but when it’s someone you fully trusted, who it turns out was just pretending to be a friend, reassuring you they’d never betray such intimacy-lying and enjoying the thrill all the while, at someone else’s expense.
It’s really not morally rigid to point out it hurts people.

How come whenever there’s a thread about affairs a few judgemental people always feel the need to pile on to make sure everyone knows how disgusting they find it etc when that wasn’t the point of the thread. The question was not ‘are affairs justifiable?’ Clearly to a lot of people they are not. But they’re still a fact of life. Why can they never be discussed without preachy judgement? I think earlier in the thread someone likened it to judging abortion as a moral issue and I think its a valid point - neither affairs nor abortions are illegal. To some people both are morally reprehensible though. Would you jump over to the pregnancy choices board to a thread where someone who’d had an abortion was asking others how they coped etc and feel the need to tell them they are disgusting and there is no justifiable reason for them doing what they did? No probably not. I think everyone having an affair is quite aware that most wont agree / understand and would judge them heavily. Why can’t they discuss it freely on an anonymous forum without judgement? Because judgemental people feel they just HAVE to inform others that they’re wrong?

Would you jump over to the pregnancy choices board to a thread where someone who’d had an abortion was asking others how they coped etc and feel the need to tell them they are disgusting and there is no justifiable reason for them doing what they did?

No. But this isn’t a thread where someone is having an affair, wants to stop and is seeking advice.

Read the OP. She says she’s curious and thinks that it’s too funny. She’s looking for fun stories and LOLS, a bit of juicy gossip about how other people’s lives are devastated.

But it’s possible to admit that an affair is not ok while at the same time understanding how it happened.

And how many betrayed spouses are going to admit that they can understand how it came to the point that their partner had an affair, even if they are deeply hurt by the experience?

Some of my eXH’s own friends told him that if he didn’t get his act together I would end up leaving him,and that was just for some of the tame stuff, making me move and then constantly being out meaning I had no chance to build a support network.Ensuring I found it impossible to find work that sort of thing.

When my affair was revealed they still judged me for it,but they knew why it had ended up like this and weren’t surprised.

In the same way that many who have affairs will deny that they’re doing anything wrong,so many who have been cheated on will never admit that there were serious problems in the relationship which could have contributed to the way things ended up.It’s not victim blaming to say that.

My H was a victim of my betrayal,but I was a victim of his abuse,for many years. The one doesn’t cancel the other out, on either side.

I agree, abuse is never ok.

But I bet the abusers would say “ well you can’t judge until you know all the circumstances. I had a shit childhood, my best friend died, I lost my job, I was stressed, i had extenuating circumstances, it’s complicated, it’s not black and white “.

Lots of people on here say their ex was abusive and then say in the next sentence “ oh you can’t judge, you are all so hateful and judgemental “.

It’s ok for them to judge, just not others.

It’s ok for them to judge a wife who wants to keep her children and her home, but no one must judge their cheating.

I don’t mean you @HoneyBeeHappy, I mean the people who see nothing wrong in what they are doing right now.

And of course it’s possible to see why affairs happen. People like to pretend that anyone who doesn’t agree with affairs is stupid and they don’t understand. Whereas cheaters are special clever people with superior analytical skills.

That’s not the case. People do understand. They know life is complicated and spouses are imperfect, life can be tough and people change. They just don’t think lying and cheating and deception of the person you vowed to love and remain faithful to is the answer.

@HoneyBeeHappy
You are one of the few posters on this thread who admits it was mistake. I admire you for that. We all make mistakeS and the trick to is learn from them, not repeat them .

Sorry - it’s totally NOT like debate on abortion. For one thing - no one is suggesting that adultery should be illegal, and secondly, the question is more abstract - unborn life - not obvious harm to living people, and thirdly, unwanted pregnancy is not a choice - an affair is!

It’s absolutely the case that some people deserve genuine sympathy- those who have an affair because they are suffering a form of coercion that prevents them leaving a marriage , by abuse, culture, oppression.
But cmon - alas - most are just cake eaters. And they k ow what they are doing is wrong - I’m just saying they don’t often appreciate the real emotion harm to others.

@NotmyNigel I can’t see where the OP thought affairs in general were funny, I think the ‘LOL’ was just in response to someone saying you can’t exactly ask about it on the team zoom call. I just think it’s annoying that they can never be discussed without the thread being completely derailed by the judgey people jumping on to tell everyone how awful they are. It’s unnecessary. There are a thousand other threads where the OP has discovered an affair and actively wants people to tear their spouse and the OW/OM to shreds and state what awful people they are. So just do it there. That wasn’t the point of this thread or the other one currently going, which WAS started with the intent of people involved in affairs who have recently ended them and need support. That couldn’t happen for long because it got derailed by judgement. I just don’t understand what the need is. I don’t like smoking and find it quite disgusting but I’ve never smoked or been addicted to anything like that so I wouldn’t go on a thread about smoking and tell all the smokers they disgust me and they should just stop it immediately.