Mother in law advice

[StevieFlicks]

My mother in law can be very forceful, insensitive and passive aggressive. I have been with my fiancé for over 7 years and I have been upset countless times by her remarks.

My fiancé is often very supportive and he will stand up to her but she picks her moments to make remarks to me when he is not around.

I have a very serious and important professional job. Yesterday, she said (and has done several times before) "I can't believe you do your job, you can't say anything to you without you crying usually" then "when my fiance would tell me about your work, I'd think to myself "no way does she do that" when you can't say boo bah to her".

Now, I am sensitive to how she's been towards me over the years but she's never once seen me cry. She's referring to times when my fiancé has told her she has upset me and not to speak to me like that. It goes over her head. She says "when he used to tell me I'd upset you I'd think "what just over that?!" 'Just over that' being her telling me about finding girls shoes by the front door on a Saturday morning in my fiancé's single days, she's called me fat and said I've put weight on (she's said the same about her other DIL too) etc etc etc. I could write a book about the things she says.

I don't ever deny shedding tears watching DIY SOS or Stand Up to Cancer UK and my fiancé's running joke is calling me Tiny Tears. That's all pure fun because I am a passionate and emotional person, but not to my detriment, I don't feel and certainly not in front of MIL or in my working capacity.

I don't know why, but I feel I can never stand up to her, or don't know how to when she says things like this to me. I did say "better to be sensitive than insensitive and I'm good at my job" but she continued talking over me anyway so it fell on deaf ears. I find it so hard to respond to passive aggression.

I am really struggling with the anxiety of being around her as I know she constantly judges me, how I keep the house, "how I keep her son", while also having a kickass job (that she thinks I'm incapable of, clearly) and dealing with what she says to me often. She speaks to me as if I am a child and I just really need to get on top of this now before it really is too late. People around her think she is joking about everything she says and my fiancé did at first when we were first together and I'd spoken to him about things she had said. In time, he's realised how passive aggressive she can be.

I think she feels she can walk over me after me not really knowing how to deal with it this past 7 years and I really need some advice.

Oh you poor pet.

She is a grade A bullying c**t.

You need to cut her right out of your lives.

She wants to pick a fight with you, punish and demolish you. Don’t give her one. Much more powerful to withdraw and erase her from your lives. That’s the only consequence that works with these types.

She will sabotage your wedding day, your motherhood and your marriage.

You need your DF on your side.

She sounds like a Narc and he is her golden boy.

Where and when is she involved in your daily lives?

I don't know about advice, but what a vicious bitch your MIL is. She is actively setting out to upset you, belittle you, and be as poisonous as she knows how to you.

Given that your fiance realises how aggressive (there's no passive there, her rudeness and viciousness towards you is totally overt), is no contact possible?

Or just turning around and saying, 'not discussing this with you, your opinion to me on anything, but most of all about me, matters to me, not a whit - shut up MIL, no-one here cares what you think, your opinion is worth something less than zero, with your nasty, vicious poison being seen exactly for what it is. Including by my DF, who is increasingly seeing you for the vile woman you are. . .'

No law saying you have to spend any time with her. Tell your dp there is no need to have her mentioned in your home...
He can manage his relationship with her elsewhere...

@Gutterton when my fiancé has spoken to her like a adult following some of her comments, she has thrown her toys out of the pram and immediately has a cocky answer, usually about me or both of us. She will then pout and not speak to us for a couple of weeks as if it was all our doing.

She's not involved with us day to day. We don't see much of her but I would say pre lockdown we would see her once a week to once a fortnight. It would vary. Her comments yesterday were following me taking a card, posting it through the door and stepping back to the pavement. I was asked about work and she went on to say that in my OP :/

I have really tried to see her good qualities but it has now come to the point that I can't keep taking this from her.

Don't keep taking this from her. If she has good qualities, these are currently far outweighed by her utter rudeness and viciousness towards you. So I'd be saying that I'm not making any further effort to foster or maintain a relationship with her, and that your DF needs to be clear that this will be how it is going forwards, because I'm not going to be prepared to be her punching bag, or be asked to be her punching bag for the sake of somebody else having a slightly easier life. . .

She has no good qualities.

Her nastiness to you is an impulsive urge because she is emotionally defective.

Her tantrums when she is called out is classic abuser / Narc tactic DARVO.

Words don’t work with these types.

Actions do. The consequences required are simple - she is not in your life. Don’t make an announcement. Just not see her. Your DF needs to be totally on board - she will never behave. She does it behind his back. She doesn’t improve when called out time and time again.

Take yourself out of punching distance.

If she has form for making nasty remarks to you out of your dp’s hearing, I would be awfully tempted to do it to her. Tell her not to be such a nasty bully - and then when she runs to your dh, lie through your teeth and say she must have imagined it or misheard you, because you’d never make nasty comments out of his earshot.

Or the less nuclear option - just think “Fuck off you evil bat” whenever she says anything nasty, and let your thoughts show on your face.

I’m so sorry she is being like this to you, it sounds so horrible! To me it sounds like the problem is more about something with her than anything you are doing. Do you think she is the type who thinks no one is good enough for her sons?

She may be jealous of your life and your great career! Maybe she has regrets about how she has lived her life but so should not be taking her unhappiness out on you. Once lockdown is over are you able to sit down with her, with your partner there and explain how hurtful you are finding her behaviour and that you don’t want to fall out but you really feel like something else is going on and not sure what.

Be calm and concerned when you bring it up (I’m sure you would be anyway!) and then she can’t say anything about you being angry or emotional etc even though you are perfectly entitled to be after the way she has spoken to you.

I really hope things improve for you, it must be really stressful. At the end of the day all we can do is control how we react, we can’t control other people.

If she isn’t willing to be an adult and have an honest conversation with you then there’s not much else you can do sadly

Thank you all.

I wish we could sit down and talk, but I really don't think that would work with her. She believes she had the right to say anything to anyone and prides herself on being a straight talker and saying exactly what she thinks - not a quality to my mind. Especially if you have to say everything jokingly.

Sometimes I feel I'm not strong enough to stand up to her but I come home upset, angry, frustrated and feeling like 'I wish I'd said this/that'.. I'm usually too shocked by what she says to even answer. I'm just so stuck and fed up :(

Keep having your DH call her out, or ignore her entirely (both of you) - she can't function without the drama & feedback.

It took my STBXMIL over 20 years to reveal herself as the vicious narcissistic bitch that she is & as the scales fell from my eyes I saw exactly why my STBXH was as he was.

I can only assume she managed to hold it together for so long because she didn't want the responsibility for any excuse to have me dump her shit of a dysfunctional son.

You might want to pop over to the stately homes thread on relationships board for even more solidarity

It is not your fault she is the ways she is and you did not make her that way. She is jealous of the relationship you have between her son and you.

Do not make her issues yours. Stop seeing her and put both mental and physical distance between you and she. Your fiancé is key here - he needs to be fully supportive of you.

You may also want to read Toxic In-laws by Susan Forward.

The “joking” is another deliberate bullying tactic - it allows her to wrap an insult up in disguise before she hurls it at you in public and also allows her to defend herself by bouncing back at you that “it was only a joke, you are so sensitive” if called out on it.

If you decide to emotionally detach from her, step back and withdraw - you will be able to notice that other people find her abhorrent by the looks on their faces.
Just look on her as some vulgar, OTT, pantomime dame who has zero insight of her social impact on others. Pity the sad fool.

Don’t try to seek her approval - that allows her to keep yanking your chain.

She is emotionally unregulated and your presence (nothing personal, just that you have her golden boy) triggers her bile.

Just keep well away. Emotionally protect yourself. She will never change and is hell bent on sabotaging you. Seems she has done enough damage already.

Sorry to hear you feel like this. It can be so frustrating when MILs don't respect us. I would say regardless of how she will take it you should talk to her. Preferably just the two of you ( just let you partner know so there's no tension there). Sit down and make the conversation have a serious tone considering all her 'direct truths ' are always said in a jokey way this will make her feel uncomfortable but hopefully will allow you to gain a little more power. Then let it all out but remain respectful ( as I'm sure you will as you sound lovely) it's just so she can't then say you were this that or the other. I would even go as far as to say record just in case she wants to manipulate the conversation. But I'm not sure if you do or don't have kids at this point but if you don't when you do ( if you choose too of course ) she will undermine you and feel like a crappy mother too. I can relate to your situation and it led me to have a very very miserable postpartum. X

As to 'it's a joke'.

How about 'you need better material MIL, that was pathetically not funny. Better luck next time, hey?'

Good for you for building a satisfying career! That's an incredible accomplishment.

Your MIL is clearly jealous. Three phrases I have learned to use:

1. "Whatever do you mean by that?" and wait for them to fumble around for an answer.
2. "And you are bringing this up yet again because...?"
3. "You've said that before."

Then walk away. Most of the time I get silence. I have gotten, "It's just so odd.

My reply: "So?"

She's being a brat. Time to bring out your inner brat.

(Of course, it would be even better if your DF would say all this.)

She sounds like an utter bitch and I would keep contact to an absolute bare minimum if I were you. Your fiancé obviously has the right to stay in contact with her but that doesn't mean you have to be involved.

"Toxic In-laws" by Susan Forward is very good. There's also "Toxic Parents" which would be helpful for your fiancé if you could persuade him to read it.

The shock you find yourself in, the loss of words and the frustration with yourself afterwards is v common because these types are skilled snipers and you are on high alert.

It’s not a failure to not react and fight with the witch there and then. It’s a smart survival tactic. She is goading you - she wants to rattle your cage so you to lose it and feel humiliated in front of others.

Your silence is powerful. Don’t dignify her with a response. As PP have said your emotional and physical distance is also powerful.

She hasn’t changed in 7 years, despite repeated conversations with your DF, she will never change, she will get worse.

Don’t waste your breath. Actions not words.

So sorry that you have run into one of these - they can do untold damage to your self esteem, marriage and motherhood. Don’t give her the opportunity.

You need to stop engaging with this jealous poisonous woman..

She may be your fiancee's Mother.. but that does not give her carte blanche to shit on you for the rest of your life... imagine what it'll be like if you have children.. fuck that... tell him No More.. I will not engage with your Mother...you don't have to put up with this..

@Gutterton Wow, it's honestly as if you actually know her. Everything you have said is pretty spot on. I'm gutted that it won't change for my DF.

SIL completely puts up with it and I can see the poison trickling into her motherhood. I can't take all of it from her forever. I think SIL is willing too somehow.

Thank you all

StevieFlicks these manipulative, dysfunctional, toxic types are emotionally stunted with a v limited repertoire.

So very predictable once you know what you are dealing with.

Once you see it you have the power.

It's funny, once you know what a narcissistic MIL is it's very easy to deal with them. When she makes passive aggressive comments you just reply "what do you mean, I don't understand, explain what you meant by that!" Call her out on everything & watch her squirm. I've stopped visiting mine. She bullied me for years after I had my first baby & after years of it & educating myself of narcissistic abuse I had it out with her, she didn't know what hit her, she still slips up every now & again but mostly she's on her best behaviour around me. I always already have something else arranged when ever she wants to see us, so I have my excuse. I only see her the bare minimum. I send DH & the kids off on their own to visit her. She says things like "Oh I'm starting to think DIL is avoiding us" No shit Sherlock! She wouldn't say that to my face though because she knows I don't play her games & would just tell her it's because of her behaviour...

I’ve not spoke to my mil for four years as she was similar. Don’t let her get away with it just because she is your partners mum. She’s grown woman who is trying to bully another grown woman.

You don’t need some big show down - you can just say you don’t want her round anymore. That’s it.

My sil divorced her husband because of my mil. The day I banned her from my house I big weight lifted of my shoulder

I definitely think distancing will help. She's already said she wants to see my wedding dress when I choose it and wants to get ready with me and my mother on the day of. Neither of those will be happening.