Why do I have no real friends?

[AlwaysAllegra]

I've often wondered this since I was about 12 years old. But it seems the older I get the quantity and quality of my friendships decline and have become non-existent. My DH, DM, DD and DB all say it is down to jealousy, but surely it must be more?
I have always been quite insecure, I have strong morals and ethics, I own 3 properties and a lovely car, most people tell me I'm very pretty/attractive, I don't drink or smoke, I'm slim(ish), I've got a masters degree and I've started my own law firm business. Since starting my own business most of my friends have been really unsupportive, not recommending me, liking my business page etc even though I've text and asked if they could to help promote my business. But it hasn't just been that, I can honestly look around and say that not one of my friends is truly happy for me or supportive and I wish I had an amazing BF like others do.
I'm the person everyone comes to for advise, help or a problem but after sending everyone a Happy Easter WhatsApp, no one got back to me and I just realised I have no friends... Does anyone have any advice? Thanks

Wow the nasty, miserable, bitter mumsnetters are really out in force here, aren't they? Bullies, the majority of you.

OP this isn't the place to ask a serious question, the place is rife with people who are not content with their lives and take great joy in piling on and putting the boot in. How I am glad that none of these harridans are my friends

Couple of points OP, my true friends are ones I’ve made at school. I have made a couple of good friends in my 20s/30s but we don’t have that closeness in the same way. If someone is in their 30s with a family they aren’t going to spend much time checking in with a friend they made a few years ago.

Generally people gravitate towards happy, positive, relaxed people who ask they questions about themselves. Do you do that?

I think its really important to distinguish between friends, people whose company you enjoy, and aquaintences.

I am so happy to like a page for someone. I might not follow it but maybe they dont realise how sm works for businesses and just dont get it.

I think you need to stop being so nice and helpful tbh. Think more transactionally. Do a favour once, but dont do anything else before they do something for you. I think the chill out advice is also quite good.

I have certain friends that have a role. So if I want to go to the ballet I ring A and B. If I need practical help I call C. Emotional help D. I wonder if your friends think like that. Maybe you need to find friends with similar expectations of friendship as you do.

Have you any kids OP? I found that those years- the mums and baby groups, the primary school gates etc, were the best days and ways to meet people. I run my own business too, never once in those early days of fledging friendships was our career/businesses ever mention. Obviously they eventually filtered into conversations with time, but totally irrelevant in general.
Never once has I felt the need to leave a review or retweet a friend's business, or expect that in return.
I don't care about that.
So yeah, back to your original post, find some hobbies, go on holiday with a group of strangers, start chatting at the school gates, organise some virtual drinks ( you can drink coke!) with your work colleagues on a Friday night, or real drinks once we are out of lockdown. What about your dh's friends? Are they yours too? Or their partners? Ask them round for dinner ?

I think you've had some harsh responses on here. Fwiw I think you sound fine....

I can kind of relate. I had to hold a big party (pre-lockdown) and was SO anxious no one would come. (They did but it was a joint party and people wanted to snoop at our house) historically. i hate asking a lot of my friends, or really for them to do anything because I fear they won't come/help/whatever as i have been let down so much previously. I dont hold birthday parties etc.

it can be really hard feeling "friendless" and i can get a bit low because i feel everyone is "supposed to have loads of friends". (Also my DP has tonnnnnes of friends)

I think its a bit like finding a partner there can be absolutely nothing wrong with you but you just don't find the right person

I now have one really good friend and maybe 3 other friends.

I think its hard to forge new friendships without sustained regular contact that is why it's easier at uni and school. I'd try a sport that has a social aspect.

I know what you mean, but speaking for myself oI often hardly read other responses and I don't 'know' anyone on here. @TheRealHousewife

I don’t think jealousy is a likely reason, OP. Maybe for one or two people, but not everyone. There are plenty of attractive, educated, successful people about and they certainly don’t all lack meaningful friendships.

However, if you give off any vibes to this effect, i.e. ‘they must surely be jealous of me because I’ve got it all; 3 houses, pretty, MSc. etc.’ then that will be extremely off-putting for others. Nobody wants deep friendships with smug, self-congratulatory types who make them feel bad about themselves. So if you have even a hint of this attitude going on, even sub-consciously, then you might have you answer there. Take some time to really reflect on this.

And I also agree with PPs about the requests to promote your business. I personally don’t feel comfortable recommending something I’ve never used or know little about; it feels dishonest. If you’re even slightly pressuring people over this then they won’t like it. You might be comfortable recommending friend’s businesses just because they are friends, but not everyone is and they certainly aren’t being unreasonable if they don’t want to.

I can relate to that OP. DH and I are foreigners and have 1 DS, we have no meaningful relationship outside the family, will not have a second DC, and it's breaking my heart. Other family is far away. I will only share my experience, not saying you do the same, but I made the mistake of being too "intense", always available for other people, to the detriment of myself and my plans. I think I (we?) need to lighten up, and just focus, as others said, on personal qualities. I have always been bad at small talk and I think it is unfair to dismiss you in a previous post as self-centered. If you are anything like me, social anxiety and concern over how you come across can lead to what appears as being self-centered and too intense. I have no advice, I just wanted to say that you are not alone. Plus getting to break someone's shell takes more time than chatting about all and nothing, so not many people are willing or have the time to do it. Not saying you have to change who you are though...

@TheRealHousewife

I commented on advice v advise. It’s not a spelling issue. It’s a knowing what you’re talking about issue.

As a lawyer your whole business is “advice and counsel”. You write the two words hundreds of times a week. They go in virtually every email, every bill.

They are not interchangeable and no lawyer would use them so.

The fact OP uses them so suggests one of two things. Either she doesn’t have a “law firm business” (another description that no lawyer would ever use) or she’s being dishonest re her success.

Both options suggest delusions of grandeur which permeate through the OPs posts and set a weird tone. Because no one chooses their friends based on how many properties they own.

If the OP is genuine and wants genuine advice then she needs to be more honest with herself.

I was a very competitive twat in my 20s and 30s, but I mistrusted women because my experience was they always seemed to take from me, not give. I then suffered a crisis at 37 and I learnt that the problem was definitely me, I had given off the vibe that there was nothing they could give me, so they felt unneeded and irrelevant. Everything changed, and 20 years later I have tons of friends.

Forget the business angle. Forget transactions. Focus on making friends with people who share your values but with a twist, ie not people just like you. Appreciate how amazing every woman is and be humble. Don’t expect too much and don’t give too much.

I think the only way to make real friends is to go through some shared bonding experience. Growing up together, university together, certain workplaces, having kids at the same time etc. On a practical level you need regular contact that's not too much effort. It's hard for working adults to replicate this sort of environment and the older you get the fewer opportunities. That community group with monthly meetings 45 minutes drive away isn't likely to cut it in the same way as uni.

As for how likeable you are as a person, I don't think any of us can really tell from a forum post, we can only project and speculate. It could be that you need to see your business networking contacts and personal friendships as separate things, maybe with a small amount of people that fit into both groups. Some people don't like to mix the two things at all.

You maybe come across as being ‘a bit too perfect’ and yes I think jealousy will be in the mix for many.

Morning everyone, thanks for the responses. Sorry had an awful sleep and I have walked the dog and been food shopping this AM. I can't reply to everyone individually, however a few things came up which I'm happy to answer. I'm in the 30-35 bracket, I don't have children (although I am desperate for one, but it just hasn't happened yet) we were meant to have a few tests before lockdown happened and understandably this is not a priority and hasn't happened. I don't live in the North unfortunately.

In regards to having strong morals and ethics comment on my first post. I meant that I treat people how I want to be treated, I would never cheat, lie, steal or see a person or animal harmed or in distress and I wouldn't be nasty to someone or bully anyone. To some people on here this would be a normal person, but to others it wouldn't.

Personality wise, I am honest, offer my opinion about things I'm asked about and feel passionate on (I'm not giving my opinions because I like the sound of my own voice), I am extremely loyal, kind, thoughtful, I am very black and white about things (someone mentioned literal, which resonated), I am assertive, I would say I am realistic, I have a dry sense of humour, I think I'm pretty down to earth and I don't think I'm intense, as I understand everyone has a life (as do I).

We owe a lot on our mortgages, so we aren't equity rich. We have 1 flat and 2 houses, both we saved hard for and are our retirement. We don't have a perfect life and I certainly don't paint that picture to my friends and I do ask questions.

I understand a lot of posters points on asking (please note only ONCE) to like my business page and I have only asked for a review from those who I have helped in the past with legal advice. I guess this is a lesson learned not to ask again or do it for them.

I have friends from all different walks of life one is a single mum in a council flat, one lives with DH has a baby and owns their home and rents another out, another owns home lives with BF, one rents and is LGBT with her partner, another lives with her mother and has no children. I do not judge others on what they have or don't have.

My family don't flatter me, I wish! They feel really sad, as they see all the effort I put in and how I get treated in return. This is why they've put it down to jealousy. However, some people have asked about my personality traits and what they look for and find to be a bit grinding. This has made me look within and also I think I'm going to take a big step back from them all.

My DH has so many friends and I get on really well with most of them. Only 2 have partners, 1 of them I knew when we were very young and DH and I both don't like her. The other one I get on really well with, but she is so busy with her young DC and they live quite far away from us as well.

I lost pretty much all my friends over the last 8 years.i had a lot of friends, whom I would visit regularly, always call in on and so on and make the effort. I realised with majority of my friends, if I dont message first I will never hear from them. I cut off a lot of ties with a lot of people and to be honest a lot of friends I had, didn't accept me reverting to Islam. They had thought the worst of me. And I said you know what they weren't real friends in the first place. I had girls I would call my close or best friends. But over the last lot of years, we have all drifted apart. No one has been to see my 4th child. I dont have a mother or father. My grandmother is in Ireland. She's the only one I have contact with. Besides that all I have is my husband and my 4 children and one lady I met on an Islamic group who happens to be from the same area i was born in, in Ireland. We have never met but she always messages me and is very caring. We live in the south of England and I find it sometimes very depressing, that I don't really have any nice female lady to go for a coffee or have a natter with.

But I cant complain because I have literally got my husband who is my very best friend and we are very close I dont know what I would do without him and to be honest I have 4 awesome friendships with my 4 kids who are aged between 2 and 12 years.

Your career and good looks have nothing to do with jealousy or no friends. Maybe some people just drifted apart or perhaps they dont want to do a favour because maybe they just dont want to. I started up a business and asked some of the girls I used to be close with to check it out and it's always, later maybe etc. Which is fine in itself , they dont have to just would be good to see what their opinions were of the website etc. They dont necessarily have to buy any products, just have a look. But its their life. To be honest I keep myself to myself. A lot of the girls I were friends with before want to to to clubs and drink and meet up with men, which my religion and way of thinking is against. But that's just the way I am. And that's just the way they are. So we had different interests and things and drifted apart. Perhaps you should make an effort more and if it's all one sided then I wouldn't bother further.

I am sorry to almost repeat what I said earlier, I am only trying to help. But read that last post again to yourself and count how many times you said "I". Or maybe it is the fault of your so called friends and they're just not the right ones for you. It shouldn't be such hard work to be friends with proper friends.

Op, maybe a first step is accepting you aren’t a social butterfly, you may be more suited to a smaller number of close friendships.

I still think talking this through with someone who will be honest with you and doesn’t want to protect you would be a good start.

I have a large group of friends, but really only one good friend. I am not by any means to most popular in the group, and am sometimes not invited to things if it’s the inner circle.

No one is jealous of me, it’s because I’m quite self conscious in the group and am not as much fun as everyone else. I am too sensible on a night out, and I know they sometimes find me boring. I can also be a bit of a know it all ( I cringe at myself sometimes😊).

But that’s me, I am too old to change. I do have good qualities, and I try to focus on them. But everyone is flawed.

I do think your close family are blind to your flaws (we all have some), and telling you people are jealous really isn’t helping. It’s what mums up and down he country have told their children for years. It is a classic response to an upset child.

You are clearly intelligent and have a full And happy life. Focus on that, relax a bit and friendships will come.

The hilarious part is I know a lot of people and talk when in passing like at the supermarket and have a good chinwag, and they say let's meet up and take our children to sottplay and then they never do message me. And I am so sick of messaging people. I had a good friend that I saw of as a little sister. She was there for me with my children's births and helped out after they were born. But when she gets a boyfriend she forgets u exist and ditched me countless times we were meant to meet up. Then she would read my messages and reply two weeks later. With my last child , my husband had to look after the kids cos we had no one to help, I called her mid contractions begging her to come to the hospital and she said she was too tired and was going to the pub with her boyfriends friends, for boyfriends friend 30th birthday. After that she kept asking to come see us, but didn't turn up, I would message her and again you get the odd response, three to four weeks later and then I told her how upset I was and she said she's off to the catering fair and can we talk later. We never did. She did ask can we wipe the slate clean 18 months ago but that's it. She is ten mins drive and the kids godmother. Thanks for wiping the slate clean. Not. I just keep myself to myself now. I just have my husband who makes me laugh until I cant breathe. We look out for each other and he is my soul mate. And to be honest i would like a nice lady to go have a lunch and a chat with but what can you do. It's just the way it is. People get older and have their own families and drift apart from people. It's just life. You just got a move on and focus on the people that are in your life and that's what I am doing. And just thank god for everything you have.

@jaffacakeany1 the 'I' is because quite a few posters asked what my personality was? Can only speak about how I think I am.

@hanamuslim I am really sorry to hear that. At least we have our DH to make us laugh :)

Op. Do you take an interest in other people?
Generally people love talking about themselves Ask questions. Try to remember things about them. Their job/ kids/ etc

I have a friend who is just hard work she will tell you all about herself Over and over. It can be wearing
She wonders why people ‘don’t like her’
But she just can’t see that she comes across
As not interested in other people - people don’t warm to her

@AlwaysAllegra i am 20 years older than you but have always been in a similar situation. No real friends. Just before I turned 40 I started to develop friendships and could have sworn that one group of 3 ladies would be my BFF. Like you I was always there to help them out, look after dogs, children etc, and, I have to be honest, I genuinely didn't mind as I loved having 'friends' at last.

Then it started to go sour - eg the dog sitting became assumed and I realised how much I was taken advantage of. The friendships ended. I made extra efforts to develop another circle of friends but like PP have said, realised that if I didn't initiate the contact/meet ups etc then nothing happened and I got sick of it. People don't want to be my BFF. I have to live with that. I've self analysed for years and come to the conclusion that I'm just not that likeable. But my OH likes me. And my children do. ExH is a different matter . My dad likes me but my mum and sisters don't very much (for myriad reasons) but the latest is that I am not extreme enough with my coronavirus defences eg I don't wash my shopping before it's allowed in the house although I do wash my hands umpteen times a day and practice social distancing.

You need to like yourself before you can expect anyone else to, after all, if you aren't happy in your own company how can you expect anyone else to be? Simplistic yes but maybe something to think about? Being friendless isn't all that bad IMO - at least you don't have lots of expenses around Christmas and birthdays to contend with!!!

I suppose it also depends on what u class as a proper friend. Myself, I don't share people's business posts, am crap at replying to messages sometimes, don't have an awful lot of free time for going out, but I am a true 'ride and die' pal, as loyal as they come and if someone needs me, I'm there breaking my back to try and help. If you have described yourself in very physi Al terms, perhaps you expect friendship thta is a physical and demonstrative one when actually it's more of a emotional one?

I think you need to separate your friendships from your networking to support your 'law firm business' for a start. (And it's entirely unclear to me why you would be asking friends to 'like' your business page for a legal enterprise, unless you've changed details to be less identifying and in fact your business is a cake decoration one, or something that could plausibly be promoted by people 'liking' or recommending it?)

I also think your criteria for gauging friendships is weird -- it's not your friends' job to promote your business, and also, we're in the middle of a pandemic, and a lot of people are having a hard time, so replying to Happy Easter messages may not be a priority. I wouldn't write off the friends you have on either of these grounds.

I think it's totally reasonable to question the OP about how she is as a friend. That's not bullying. If a friend asked me why she wasn't getting any jobs as an accountant and I said 'what qualifications do you have and what level of job are you going for and what are you like in interviews' those are genuine questions to get relevant information which may lead to a solution.

So, OP, I understand what it's like to have few friends. I've lost a lot and been unpopular. I've had to face some hard home truths and really view myself from an objective perspective and see what do I actually say and do (which is all others have to go on). Turns out I thought I was a bit special and wasn't very interested in others. On realising this I went to work to make changes and it has helped.

When you say that you don't have any friends is that purely based on the fact that these friends won't promote your business? Most people wouldn't dismiss a friendship based on that so it's likely that lots of others things have happened beforehand to make you feel you don't have any friends? And again, not replying to an Easter message isn't enough to dismiss a friendship that has had no other issues. So what else has happened?

I feel a bit like you OP. More so since I had my DC and the girls in my NCT just didn’t take to me. Not sure why but I don’t thibk it was jealousy.

I’ve always struggled to bond with women and I’m convinced it’s because my mum struggled to bond with me so I’ve always struggled with female friendships.

I have what I’d say were 5 close friends I fully trust. 2 of them are men and the closest and one I probably seek most counsel from is a man (gay). All the girls and I went through a shared experience where we lived away from home (not physically living together but in the same place) for 3 months. 1 of the men is 1 of their husbands and the other man I met through him.

Becoming more difficult now we’ve had a DC (1 on way too) as only 1 of those 5 has had/intends to have kids so I’d say I’m getting closer to her now and a bit further away from the others which has happened naturally as we can’t just meet up at a moments notice any more.

I’m not quite sure what I’m saying/what the answer is but I do wonder if it’s a vibe you’re giving off as I feel the same and always feel I’m not good enough for most of the people I meet (guess I’m talking about NCT mums mainly) so am just empathising with how you feel

It sounds like you don’t have much in common with your friends.

I can’t say I’d be rushing to be friends with someone where I’d be the fat/ poor/ unmarried one.

You say you do t drink but do you go to pubs? If someone invited you out for a drink would you go? What social activities do you expect to do with friends?

You have friends with dcs- do you offer to babysit? Are you available when they are ie during the day during the week? Do you expect them to not have their dcs with them when you meet?

All these things will be impacting your friendships.