Partner described as a 'race traitor'

[sweetnsuga123]

Amongst other things... I have been with my boyfriend for 3 and a half years. We live in a predominately white area I am white he is black. A couple of weeks ago he was called a race traitor when we were on a date and got that shouted at him. We were also cat called about a month ago with someone shouting 'once you go black you never go back'.

Anyone else had experiences of this? I find it crazy how we are in 2020 and these things are still happening.

But racism is defined as the oppression or exploitation of a race over generations. White people have never experienced that so cannot cry racism, bigotry or prejudice maybe but not racism.

No, that is not the definition of racism. That is an ideological position.

But racism is defined as the oppression or exploitation of a race over generations. White people have never experienced that so cannot cry racism, bigotry or prejudice maybe but not racism.

That’s not the dictionary definition. It’s not the legal definition.

Why should OP and her BF have to put up with you dismissing the racism they have experienced as a mixed race couple? Just because you’ve decided to redefine the meaning of the word “racism”? Blow that.

BTW, you might have noticed (if you were reading properly) that the man being called names in the OP is black, so he isn’t a “white person....crying racism” is he?

@goldenbaobab That is disgusting. All of it. You must be very resilient.

For everyone correcting everyone else's definition of racism.

1. The Oxford dictionary from 1973 (my mum's copy) states racism as being the belief that one race (presumably the believer's race) is superior to another. PP upthread gave a much more extensive and presumably more up to date definition (that conveniently includes white people in the possible 'victim' category). My point being calling another's definition 'ideological' is, I think, a misnomer.

1. For the op who has never heard of colourism, in Asian culture think of how the darker asians are treated and how much lighter asians are revered within their own cultures.

In terms of black people with a history of slavery in their culture (they weren't all slaves, that is not their only history), imagine you were dark skinned, say Seal's or Idris Elba or Kevin Hart's complexion, you'd get to work in the field, hard back breaking work. Male or female. Say then you were Alisha Keys, Thandie Newton's complexion. You get to live and or work in the big house. This creates a clear demarcation about your position in life. This permeated through not just those who owned slaves, but also the slaves themselves as to who was better and wirth more and the attitude carries through, unfortunately to this day. To my mind colourism is worst than racism on some levels because it's so subtle it's almost not noticeable. It's also a reason why bleaching creams in Asia and the Caribbean is so prevalent.

To the OP sorry you and your DH have gone through this. I, unfortunately know too many people with those thoughts. There's pro-black then there is pro-stupid. Im afraid you and your DH have met the latter. As my SIL says Love is love nothing else matters. In the heat of the moment I kind of agree about the throat punch too

Sadly there will always be racism. I am mixed race, quite fair skin, hazel eyes, light brown hair. My husband is black. I have experienced a considerable amount racism from black woman, never from a black man, only once from a white person. In my experience black people get away with in your face rasicm. My black FIL didn't speak to his own daughter for years after she married a white man.

I believe there will always be racism sadly. I wish it weren’t true. But I think humans are inherently tribal and racism is a deep seated consequence of that. Fearing those who are clearly ‘different’, preferring to be around people who are ‘like you’. It’s very deeply subconscious for many, I tend to believe all of us, of any ethnicity, have some racist beliefs. It just depends whether you’re able to dig deep and uncover and acknowledge and work through and challenge them.

I’m white and DH is Indian. My family are 100% supportive of our marriage and have been from day one. His, not so much. His father disowned him for dating me because I’m white and not of the same religion and ethnic background. We even discussed whether me converting to the religion would change things (I wouldn’t have ultimately) but it wouldn’t. It’s not just that I don’t share his beliefs, it’s that my skin is a different colour. It makes me not good enough for his son, aside from anything else about me.

His loss. He’s missing out on a relationship with his only son and his grandson because of his deeply held racist beliefs.

Concerning days of slavery, the reason the slaves with fair skin worked in the house, was often because they were fathered by the white slave owners having relationships (consented or forced) with the female slaves.

@Muzzymarker, very often but not always.
Black people come in all different shades (long before the transatlantic slave trade).

Also children of slaves didn't always stay with the families into adulthood.

My point remains regarding the colourism issue amongst black people.

I'm still not convinced that white people can claim racism. White people have always been top of the food chain and in a privileged position. An person from an ethnic minority has had to deal with racism from the moment they were born, less pay, more likely to be arrested or handed a severe sentence. Ethnic minorities are more likely to experience financial hardship. That, to me, is racism. Not an outdated definition in the Oxford dictionary. Society has moved on from what we find sexist, racist, etc.

A white person that has had a comment thrown at them for possibly the first time in their life can not claim it is racist because it does not have the weight behind it of generations of oppression, violence and exploitation. Using a racial slur against an ethnic minority dehumanizes them, but I don't think it has the same effect on a white person.

All this is just my opinion, not fact obviously. I completely respect the opinions of everyone else on here, just wanted to give my view ✌️

www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism

This explains it far more eloquently than my clumsy post.

But racism is defined as the oppression or exploitation of a race over generations. White people have never experienced that so cannot cry racism, bigotry or prejudice maybe but not racism.

Humans don't have races. Race theory was discredited decades ago. As a poster pointed out upthread, racism is the belief that race exists and is deterministic of character, worth etc.

Of course dark skinned humans are vastly more like to experience racism in the UK and more likely to be disadvantaged.

But your comment goes further: you group people by skin colour and make presumptions about all members of those groups based on their colour. That's not class analysis, that's classical racism.

I'm not suggesting you are intentionally bigoted. I am suggesting that using the racists own language perpetuates the myth. We should stop buying what racists are selling.

OP, I'm in the north west as well. I have a few friends in mixed ethnicity couples and it is shocking how overt and aggressively racist some people are.

Take heart that it is a tiny minority who are like that. There are bumps on the road and it isn't easy, but over decades society has moved enormously forward.

@donquixotedelamancha Interesting point. How do you think that could be applied in everyday life? For example, if someone experiences a racist attack they could not be told "race doesn't exist therefore it was just an attack".

I think with the traction of cultural appropriation on social media, this mentality spills out into real life. There is an expectation that each race should now ‘stay in their lane’. I can imagine a mixed race relationship is a very visual abhorrence to some people and as no one seems to have the ability to keep their thoughts in their heads anymore. So the keyboard warriors are just spilling it out their mouths too.

@Fedupandpoor
I dont' think your explanation was clumsy. I don't disagree with it. I think you agreed with me that old school definitions have to move with the times, and no-one can really discredit someone else's view of racism, if they are literally living the result of it on a daily basis. He who feels it knows it right?

I don't think it's impossible to see both sides though. If you are not used to it, to have hate speech thrown your way, it must be a shock. But if you are a minority in this country it's tempting to tell the majority to stop claiming victimhood. It's a bit of a juggling act navigating the subject.

For example, if someone experiences a racist attack they could not be told "race doesn't exist therefore it was just an attack".

Nooo. Racism exists. The man who talked about being a race traitor in OPs example is unquestionably a racist. Just because that not the usual way round doesn't make it any less wrong.

I completely understand the importance of highlighting power structures in ethnic disadvantage. The problem with doing so in the way you do it is:

1. It equates overt racism with prejudice and structural disadvantage. They are not the same thing and have very different solutions.

1. People recognise that the 'white people bad' model is wildly oversimplistic- so it becomes a trope that racism is used wrongly and support for the necessary actions to combat racism declines, because it gets mixed up with the silly virtue signalling.

1. It reinforces the idea that race exists, which is ultimately the root cause of racism. We should regard racists in the same way as flat earthers or antivaxxers. Sadly the fact that they are pitiable idiots doesn't make the belief any less toxic.

@donquixotedelamancha Race theory was discredited decades ago.

You might want to try telling that to the Racists and the victims of racism.

Theory is all very well, reality can be very real.

As a black woman married to a white man, I feel your pain.

@alexdgr8 good grief. What was the programme and is there a recording available? I have my theory about who the MP might be!

Surely you don't mean the one who had carnal knowledge of a certain Labour MP who is very white!!!!

@donquixotedelamancha Cross posted - sorry

You might want to try telling that to the Racists and the victims of racism.

That was rather my point- that it is unhelpful to use the language of racists. Did you read my posts or just that line?

Cross posted - sorry

Aha, me too.

No worries.

I live in a very diverse area and i am not surprised by these comments.

@Fedupandpoor imagine this. A white person, from a disadvantaged background is attacked by Asian people, from a well off family. During the attack, the only reason given is that the white person is white.

Now is that not racism?

Of course racism has been, historically, created and perpetrated by (predominantly) white people. But this doesn't make it a whites-only crime.

Sexism has moved on, it can now be applied to men, women and trans people. So why does the definition of racism remain stagnant?

No one should be made to feel less or worse than anyone else for the colour of their skin. And if someone makes them feel that way, because of their beliefs that they are, in fact, inferior due to this property then that person is a racist.