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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Does an abuser know they are one?

81 replies

Fightingback16 · 02/04/2020 13:34

Does say an abusive husband know that they are abusive. Do they set out from the start with a plan in mind? Have they always been abusive and will they ever become non abusive?

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GilbertMarkham · 02/04/2020 13:54

I don't think they do - they justify everything in their head. They think they're in the right.
(They don't think they're an abuser because they think they're right).

I don't know about plan, it's just their modus operandi. They might hide it a bit at the start til they think someone is invested.

Yes, they've probably always been abusive - their way of acting will be established from their earliest relationships.

No, I think they very very rarely change. They would have to.change their entire core belief system .. and their dynamic in interacting with a partner. Very rare.

GilbertMarkham · 02/04/2020 13:55

www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

TheYearOfTheDog · 02/04/2020 13:56

Yes. My xh was lovely to his boss.

GilbertMarkham · 02/04/2020 13:58

The only poster on here who said she saw a man (sort of) change said that he was no longer violent, but abusive in other ways ..
Mostly because he was now with a partner who provided him with an affluent, elevated lifestyle that he didn't want to lose .. so he avoided outright physical abuse that would be likely to cause the woman to end the relationship (but still appeared abusive in other subtler ways).

vampirethriller · 02/04/2020 14:00

Yes. Mine was a lovely man to everyone else. Life and soul of the party, funny, kind, would go out of his way to help. Always on the side of the oppressed. Except to my friends- he wouldn't give my friends the time of day.
He kept me locked up and sold me on adult work. He knew what he was.

Original poster
Fightingback16 · 02/04/2020 14:16

When he met me, he knew very quickly whether I was a good prey or not?

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Original poster
Fightingback16 · 02/04/2020 14:17

Which I was because I’m here asking these questions. Do victims of abuse almost always have low self esteem and a distorted belief system. Does it often happen to strong women?

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Original poster
Fightingback16 · 02/04/2020 14:20

Maybe those women leave a lot earlier!

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Thingsdogetbetter · 02/04/2020 14:21

Do they know they are abusive? No, they do not see their behaviour as abusive or wrong, but they realise it will be SEEN by others as abusive. They do not consider their actions actually wrong. They reason that they are right and justified and others are idiots not to agree with them. They keep their actions secret not because they think they are wrong, but to keep to the social norm in the wider community. Keeping up appearances is a way of conning the idiots outside the home while ensuring they can keep control at home without interference. They are different to others outside the home not because they want to be, but because they don't want to be stopped. The nice guy outside the home is an act forced on them by social conventions, not the real them.

Do they start with a plan? I truely believe so. Otherwise they would jump straight into a new relationship with their justifiable actions. They wait until the fish is on the hook. They test the water, wave red flags and escalate deliberately.

Have they always been abusive? Yes. They may had hidden it better in earlier relationships because that 'fish' wasn't on the hook enough. No one partner 'creates' an abuser or presses the right buttons that causes abuse. It is deep rooted and inherent. It has taken years and years to create this mindset.

Will they always be abusive? Yes. Unless they truely realise what they think is wrong and do a ton of work on themselves there is no hope of changing their inherent nature. The abused cannot make or help them come to this realisation - their opinion is not worth the shit on an abuser's shoe to an abuser afterall. Counselling doesn't help without the epiphany first - it just provides more ammunition. It's rarer then hens' teeth for someone to change such an ingrained, hate-filled, self righteous mindset. How does one admit to one's self that one is 100% wrong and always has been?

Thingsdogetbetter · 02/04/2020 14:34

I think it's a numbers game for an abuser. Women who recognise red flags leave before abuse starts. No lose to an abuser, they just move on to the next women until they find someone who ignores red flags. It can happen to ANY woman who for whatever reason does not recognise or acknowledge red flags: high self esteem or low, bad or good relationship models etc. Does an abuser know instantly who will be good prey? Can they sniff out who will be good prey? No. But they can work it out as they flash up red flags and see those flags ignored.

Sometimes I feel the freedom programme should be compulsory for teenagers!

Original poster
Fightingback16 · 02/04/2020 14:38

So all the initial red flags were intentional then?

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KeepYourselfGrounded · 02/04/2020 14:44

Yes. They do. They know very well what they're doing and will be abusive to others too, such as co-workers and shop staff. Abusers are selective about who they abuse.

Went through years of DA, and counselling to try rationalise it all. Turns out he's just a highly damaged individual.

otterhound · 02/04/2020 14:50

As PP said as abusive people dont miraculously sniff out and target vulnerable people (despite what is often said on MN)

They behave how they behave and those that wont tolerate it leave. Those that ignore the behaviour (for what ever reason) stay.

My sister was married to a complete control freak and financially abused. It was clear from from day 1 what he was like but she chose to ignore it. After 10 years and 2 kids she had enough and left.

Lllot5 · 02/04/2020 14:54

I think they absolutely know what they’re doing. Otherwise they would have no friends no job. They choose who to do it to.
Don’t punch and kick people at work. Don’t strangle their friends. They do it because they can get away with it.

FranklySonImTheGaffer · 02/04/2020 14:59

Ex told me as I was the process of leaving of him that he knew I wouldn't go anywhere - I had no backbone and that's why he treated me the way he did.

I honestly think it began because he was insecure and didn't realise how awful he made me feel, but as he learned how to control me, he realised he enjoyed the power. After that it was literally a case of doing something just a bit worse than last time and watching my reaction to make sure he stopped before I couldn't take any more.

And I would consider myself strong, I just had no experience of abuse so didn't know what was happening. I was a perfect example of the boiling frog analogy - it was such a slow build up of behaviour that by the time he reached what I would once have considered deal breakers I was already in a pattern of justifying his actions to myself.

Oh and lastly, I'm pretty sure if you asked him now, he would tell you he's not an abuser, he was a frustrated man who lost his temper a few times.

dellacucina · 02/04/2020 15:00

I think that my ex is aware that some of his behaviour doesn't look good, but he fully believes it's justified - consistent with what others have said.

Dontunderestimateme · 02/04/2020 15:03

Low self esteem and distorted belief system don't mean you are not strong. It can happen to anyone if they end up in the wrong relationship. I think a lot of abusers come from a background of abuse, so it is their normal and they don't recognise it for what it is. Unfortunately even if they do it is vanishingly unlikely that they can or will change.

otterhound · 02/04/2020 15:04

It would be fair to say each abuser is different.

In My sisters case she found out he had been exactly the same with his previous wives/girlfriends

HarrietThePi · 02/04/2020 15:16

It probably varies, but in my experience I don't know if they'd recognise it as "abuse" because they justify things to themselves, but they usually seem to know well enough not to behave that way to their boss, or how to play the nice guy in public etc, so they clearly know on some level that they're behaviour is wrong.

Original poster
Fightingback16 · 02/04/2020 15:21

I’m just figuring out whether him knowing what he did to me would make him proud. He doesn’t believe he was abusive to me. I stupidly told him that I have been diagnosed with M.E 6 months ago (stopped all contact 3 months ago) he jumped on it, apologising one minute then a whole bunch of abuse the next. He is probably happy I have it, I shouldn’t have told him.

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Original poster
Fightingback16 · 02/04/2020 15:22

When I see him, which I have to if he decides to take me to court over contact I’m going to have to act tough aren’t I?

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OhioOhioOhio · 02/04/2020 15:27

Yes. My xh knows. He's entitled to his behaviour. He's superior.

Lllot5 · 02/04/2020 15:27

I don’t actually think it makes much difference if he thinks he’s abusive or not.
You know he is. Somewhere in the back of his mind he knows. Whether or not he’ll ever admit to it is a different thing.
I can’t speak from personal experience, but I think we’ve all heard of women being punched where the bruises don’t show, must know what they’re doing.

OhioOhioOhio · 02/04/2020 15:28

Yes. My xh is lovely to his employees.

goldpartyhat · 02/04/2020 15:30

I think deep down they know they are, but they are as good at lying to themselves as they are to you. On a day to day basis they tell themselves, and believe, it's all your fault. You are the one that 'deliberately' sets them off, deliberately upset them, wind them up and so on. You are abusing them.

My ex thought he was dying with appendicitis and on the way to the hospital he (in agony) said he was so sorry for what he had put me through. Please forgive me? First time in 7 years of abuse he had acknowledged it was him all along. 2 weeks later when he was home and recovered, I asked him if he'd meant what he'd said (thinking the marriage would improve), and he went ballistic, accusing me of pointing the finger, blaming him and the general shit he came out with. That's when I realised he wasn't apologising to me and asking forgiveness to make me feel better (which is what an apology is) but so that he could die with my forgiveness. So selfish right to the end. Pity he didn't die. He deserved it.

I always remembered that when I was being gaslighted and didn't know if it really was me. If he'd really believed it was me who was abusing him, he would have said that he forgave me.