Does an abuser know they are one?

[Fightingback16]

Does say an abusive husband know that they are abusive. Do they set out from the start with a plan in mind? Have they always been abusive and will they ever become non abusive?

Yes they know and they enjoy it

I don't think so. In my experience they wholly think they are in the right and it's only their opinion and their views that matter. They will shout and scream until they are blue in the face and won't even consider that someone else may have a differing opinion than them

In my experience very good at justifying their behavour so that they don't have to accept this side of them.

No. To them, their behaviour is normal. That's why it is very, very difficult for them to change.

"When I see him, which I have to if he decides to take me to court over contact I’m going to have to act tough aren’t I?"

I'd say yes. Don't just act tough, be tough. Get your support elsewhere, be honest with the court, but don't allow him any leverage on you.

There are other people who would know better than me.

He is probably happy I have it, I shouldn’t have told him.

Tell him NOTHING. Absolutely nothing, good or bad. Give him nothing to use against you.

It's a question of semantics. An abuse counsellor asked a room full of men to put their hands up if they were rapists. None did. He later asked if they had had non consensual sex, they all had.

They know what they are doing is wrong but don't see themselves as abusers. They know what they are doing is wrong because they don't do it in front of those who can hold them to account.

They can sense vulnerability but as a pp said, those with good boundaries will see them for what they are and they won't get past them. They'll get dumped pretty quickly by those who are aware of red flags and have been abused and done work on themselves.

He knew what he was doing but he wouldn't see himself as an abuser. He also saw it as his right as a man to behave the way he did. Society is also to blame for socialising and making abuse acceptable.

Don’t punch and kick people at work. Don’t strangle their friends. They do it because they can get away with it.

I thought this was about all types of abuse - not specifically physical. That's how I answered anyway.

Do they know they are abusive? No, they do not see their behaviour as abusive or wrong, but they realise it will be SEEN by others as abusive. They do not consider their actions actually wrong. They reason that they are right and justified and others are idiots not to agree with them. They keep their actions secret not because they think they are wrong, but to keep to the social norm in the wider community.

Agree wholeheartedly with this.

And when you have answers and information and methods to improve yourself what do you do with the knowledge that you got caught?

I count myself as very lucky to have got out. Where do I put last 11 years?

You put it down as a learning experience and learn how to love yourself regardless.

Don't feel that there was a weakness in you that he exploited. I told a friend that if it could happen to her, it could happen to anyone. She was mature, socially well connected, financially secure, etc etc.
Some people get better at avoiding it, but there are no guarantees.

It's not you, it's him. His weakness that he needed to force you into the pattern he wanted rather than loving and appreciating what and who you are.

It's all him.

@GilbertMarkham
You’re right I did answer based on physical abuse.
But I still believe they know what they’re doing, how can they not.
They may think they’re in the right, or that their victim ‘started it ‘ or ‘deserved it’ but if they are hiding it they must know.

They must do on some level - they're not stupid. Lying, cheating, violence, coercive control. They must know. They must know that its not ok to call your partner a cunt. That it's not ok to blank them for days. That it's not ok to hit them, force them to have sex, check up on their every move, stalk them etc.

but yes maybe they justify it I suppose in some way.

They know they can get away with it - there's no impetus to change. If the woman does have strong boundaries and leaves, there will be another one who they can control . And they generally find someone who does put up with it -I know a dreadful man who said that he knew his gf would never leave him. He treated her worse than a dog.

I don't believe they ever change. But there's no chance of doing it if they can't even admit or see that their behaviour was abusive.

So it’s a case of accepting it and letting it go? There are lots of things that I need to work on, there were many that were there before I met him. I did have a normal 5 year relationship before him so I know I got caught by him and I just so happened to be a pleaser thanks to my upbringing. I know he caught me because of the good qualities I have. He used me to create a happy life, he wouldn’t have had this without me. When we met he had nothing, he was from an abusive family, he was a former drug addict, he has scars all up his arms from which I assume was from self harm, self loathing. He hid his darkness behind this image of a happy family he created. He did whatever he could to keep me trapped. It was not happy, it was an illusion. I know what happy is, it’s feeling safe and loved.

I was one of those “strong” women it happened to; I even worked in the social care sector including with women experiencing DV and it wasn’t until I was sat in a refresher training session that I had a lightbulb moment about what was happening and it still took me nearly a year to leave after that. He didn’t see himself as abusive (probably still doesn’t), he blamed me and played a lot of it down. He said he’d never done any of these things before therefore blaming me more but then I thought back to a story he told of an ex leaving him out of the blue and I think the same thing happened in that relationship as after I left he told everyone I’d left him for another man with no warning and to pay all the bills on our flat.
Through my work I would say I don’t think they purposefully go for women they see as weak, it’s far more complex than that a lot of the time. My ex was drawn to me at a vulnerable time in my life as he was used to being the carer to vulnerable women but he also hated being in that role (all wrapped up in childhood trauma) and then when I became stronger he couldn’t handle it and needed to try and get back to our original dynamic by controlling me.
I like to think anyone can change but working with dozens of women where there had been domestic abuse has led me to conclude that while they can change they need to be able to admit the abuse and they can’t change while in the same relationship; once it happens I’ve not seen it stop. I’d also add that in my career I’ve met 2 men who admit to domestic abuse, all the others didn’t including a man who said all he’d done is push his partner in self defence when she had bite marks on her.

They're often with fragmented personalities with areas of repression. So they might 'know' a part of something, but not have thought it through. Or they might know something but not have thought about it in an empathic or moral way because that's repressed. Both deliberately and as an unconscious habit. You're asking the wrong question really. Sometimes they know they're fooling you perfectly well but again, haven't thought about how that would be it it was done to them. So in a way they don't know. Because they don't care and can't care and won't care.

Op that is EXACTLY what I said the other week.

Where do I put those years?

Do you file it in the same place as you do when don’t touch the cooker hob because it will burn?

I think I can have a better life because of it, it has woken me up to life. Should I file it there, in life experience that I needed?

Yes, they know. It's clear they do, because they turn it on and off and they often present quite a different face to the world and at work, don't they? The 'uncontrollable' temper that prompts an abuser to grab his partner by the throat and slam her against the nearest wall never shows with his impossible boss or unreasonable mother, does it, so he is totally in control of what he does.

Mine was a bit different, he hurt anyone who he deemed apposed him, looked at him wrong, even his mum go it.

I was watching the Michael Jackson documentary the other day and posed the same question whilst watching it. Michael Jackson couldn't see that sharing a bed with 12 and 13 year old boys was wrong.

I don't think they know. I do think that they think everyone else is always in the wrong though. Just as a small example I recently left a controlling relationship. I do think of myself as quite strong and when I spoke up and told him I'm leaving because he is controlling, he was outraged. And denied it. Over and over and over again. And then when I pointed out that even this is controlling, he just would not accept it.

It was a bit of a mind fuck I won't deny it.

I then realized that he lived by moulding himself into the next person he meets lives. He doesn't have his own friends, his friends are the partners friends. He doesn't get in with his family, his partners family are his family. Even his own child he doesn't treat as his child, but did mine.

And now, during lockdown he is all alone. With no friends and noone running after him in a way I feel quite sorry for him, but I don't let him know that as he is playing on that fact.

Due to one issue we have kept in touch randomly. His ex wife left him but I never heard him say one good thing about her. All I ever heard was how awful she became, diagnosed with bioloar and addicted to pain meds. I asked him how she is doing during the lockdown (as he keeps in touch with her too, for no reason really they didn't have children together, it'd the control aspect I believe) and he said that apparently she said she is doing fine, is 'miraculously' off get meds, started a sport etc. So it sounds like she is doing well. Only then did I realize that this is probably because she is no longer in the relationship. I'm am so glad she is doing well. They got divorced and back together 3 times. Why thus wasn't a red flag to me right at the start I just don't know.

My husband got really angry if I ever dared call him out on his abuse... He knew all right but his controlling nature meant he took advantage of anyone weaker than he was. He's currently holed up with the OW and it's bliss now he's not causing upset.