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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Should I leave my relationship of 30 years after the lock down

86 replies

willkeegan · 02/04/2020 12:32

We've known each other for 30 years and married young (we're in our early 50's). My wife is a really good person, we know each other better than we know ourselves, we're good friends and ostensibly have a good, comfortable life. Together we raised two kids who now have their own lives. There is so much to appreciate and celebrate from the last 30 years. We've had our ups and downs and had a trial separation recently, had some therapy and worked hard on things and are now back together. Neither of us has had an affair.
Deep down I think I am free spirit, not constitutionally the marrying type which is ironic given we're coming up to a big anniversary. While we were separated I felt alive and whole, which is strange as the romcom fable is that we should feel that way when we're "married happily ever after." I don't want to hurt her or the kids, in fact that's the last thing I want to do. Even as young adults they really need us. Frankly, I've also always felt I am "punching," she could do better than me, but she says she loves me including my flaws. There are quite a few, I can up and down, I had some tough stuff happen when I was a kid, but mostly I have tried to be a good dad and husband. My friends tell me, your marriage is good, you're a fool to contemplate giving it up. Others tell me a relationship has a lifespan and it's healthy to recognise when it has run its course. I feel there is a fine line between authenticity/freedom and selfishness/wanton destruction.
Yes, this is a mid-life crisis, no there is no other woman (or man), sports car etc. Rather the pandemic lock down has me re-examining my life and asking what is best for me / us for the next phase of life.
Thank you.

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Thingsdogetbetter · 02/04/2020 16:17

And how do envisage this next phase for you? Are you imagining quiting your job, travelling to exotic lands, wild sex with willing young women, riding off into the sunset on a Harley? Cos that doesn't happen for the average 50+ bloke.

You sound bored rather than your marraige being the actual problem. Have you considered your wife might be bored too? Maybe best to try and shake up your life together, than chuck it all in for some random fantasy next stage.

ravenmum · 02/04/2020 16:23

Whatever you decide, I wouldn't use the term "free spirit" at any point in real life.

Nice that this has you thinking, but these are weird times and making people have some weird thoughts. I'd say that immediately "after the lockdown" would be a bit fast. But on the other hand, if you've already had a trial separation and are still dithering, it could be kinder to end it rather than leaving her in limbo - depending on her character.

willkeegan · 02/04/2020 16:28

Thanks thingsdogetbetter. I love my job, I can't remember the last time I felt bored and this is not about another relationship - although I love people and have lots of friends of all ages.
You're right though about trying to re-evaluate our life together and "shake things up" and that's exactly what we're trying to do. Lock down with adult kids moving back home with boyfriends is a form of shake up - not quite what we'd imagined maybe.
I do have a confession to make, I did sell my car and now live my life on two wheels (but no Harley) :-)

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willkeegan · 02/04/2020 16:34

Ravenmum - Fair enough, I take "free spirit" back, maybe just not the "marrying type" and "dithering" is about right :-/ I won't say the term the marital therapist used, it makes free spirit seem very pedestrian and my partner never really liked the therapist after that and we stopped the sessions and went it alone!
I agree these are weird times, and probably not times to make big decisions. I suspect lots of people in lock down are asking tough questions and I have one very good friend living with an abusive partner. Makes my situation seem very vanilla.

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tarasmalatarocks · 02/04/2020 20:53

I feel exactly like you OP , been married 20 odd years , except you can add in an emotional affair on his side quite a lot of years ago. It isn’t that I don’t care or even that I want another relationship- I don’t, I would just like to be able to do things when I want with others without having to almost ‘ask permission’ be it a weekend camping with friends or go and visit someone and stay over etc- the problem is he doesn’t have local friends and hence prefers it if I’m around. I would like to feel I could drink 2 glasses of wine if I felt like it on a night that he wasn’t drinking without comment or a feeling of being disapproved . To be honest I realise that I find marriage or even being in full on relationships very claustrophobic , however much I like someone. It’s my second marriage and my first husband wS never in which as I had young kids then got me down , I’ve really had 2 extremes!!

Gutterton · 02/04/2020 22:14

When you had your trial separation why did you choose to return?

FatMatress · 02/04/2020 22:40

I have a friend who sounds very like you, same age, same midlife crisis, only his children are younger. He decided he was ‘not the marrying kind’ last summer, after 20 years of marriage — no affair, no one on the horizon — and moved out. His brave new world consists of an identical suburban house to his marital home, and him falling asleep on the sofa after dinner every night, just as he used to at home. Despite having agreed on 50/50 residency (and his wife being an NHS key worker), he still hasn’t had the children overnight — he ‘pops in’ home at dinner time daily — and they are sent to school every day, even though he’s WFH.

He thinks he’s a free spirit ground down by marriage and domesticity — but he’s actually a ditherer who drifted into marriage and children and now, twenty years on, no longer fancies his wife. His ‘authentic’ post-separation life consists of bad tv, gaming, reading Popbitch (long before CV started keeping people in) and being an inadequate father.

MsPepperPotts · 02/04/2020 23:42

You have already made your decision that you are leaving your wife.
Hopefully she will have the opportunity to put herself and her emotional wellbeing first and go one to have a happy life without you in it.

willkeegan · 03/04/2020 08:05

A good friend of mine who came out of a really bad marriage said Mumsnet was a lifesaver for her and suggested I post here. She was right, thank you - this is so helpful.
=> Gutterton. Why did you choose to return? We were separated for six months, and during that time we wrote each other letters, shared playlists and poems. This helped us understand each other, realise we loved each other, we both wanted change and we decided for our and the kids' sake to see if we could change.
=> FatMatress. You're right of course, that would be tragic. To throw away a thirty year friendship/marriage and hurt the kids for that kind of pathos - what a terrible waste and what selfish, wanton destruction. I guess the key is to be clear what it is we want and ask whether it's realistic. While we were separated I am pleased to say I watched no TV, never fell asleep on the sofa and I don't know what Popbitch is, but I am going to find out, it sounds intriguing. I feel guilty admitting it, but in those six months I felt more alive than I have for years, like Tarasmalatarocks said.
=> MsPepperPots. I agree that her and our kids' wellbeing and happiness is key which is why we're spending this time seeing if we can create a good life together having raised a family.
We only have one life, and I've already had two people I know die in this awful pandemic. It feels important to live this precious life well, and that includes not hurting people, avoiding a life of quiet desperation as per couch man, knowing what it is I want and being brave enough to live that life.

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ravenmum · 03/04/2020 09:01

What was it that made you feel alive? Any specific situations or things you did?

willkeegan · 03/04/2020 09:08

PS, for the first 4 months we were separated I was sure we would separate permanently and divorce because I felt the marriage had died through a 1000 cuts and we couldn't change. We' talked about how to split our assets etc. But the separation was a bit an electric shock and in the last two months, around Christmas some hope that maybe we could change set in. This article pretty well summed it up and I love the phrase "Turning things around will depend on how much you can both forgive and how convincingly you can imagine your future together." www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/nov/10/my-partner-30-years-wants-leave-how-can-i-get-her-stay-mariella-frostrup

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ravenmum · 03/04/2020 09:19

Do you know the podcast "Where Should We Begin?" with Esther Perel? She is not very well liked by everyone at Mumsnet as she is very much not a LTB enthusiast Grin, but actually I found listening to her podcasts quite useful as reassurance that it was a good idea to separate, as you can hear from the way some of the couples talk that they might have a chance, and how much hard work will be required. Start with the older ones if you don't know them.
player.fm/series/where-should-we-begin-with-esther-perel

Gutterton · 03/04/2020 09:39

How long have you been “back together” and “back home living together”? Sounds v recent.

Did the division of assets have a bearing on decision to try again?

Were you having these thoughts of leaving again before lockdown?

What did it feel like when you got back together?

Are your feelings to leave now different in nature and intensity than the feelings to leave when you first left?

Have you had any one to one therapy?

Did you come back due to guilt (DC, DW) or because you knew that’s what you wanted for your future.

What changes did you both identify to shake it up and did they happen?

FatMatress · 03/04/2020 13:29

To throw away a thirty year friendship/marriage and hurt the kids for that kind of pathos - what a terrible waste and what selfish, wanton destruction. I guess the key is to be clear what it is we want and ask whether it's realistic. While we were separated I am pleased to say I watched no TV, never fell asleep on the sofa and I don't know what Popbitch is, but I am going to find out, it sounds intriguing. I feel guilty admitting it, but in those six months I felt more alive than I have for years, like Tarasmalatarocks said.

My friend kept telling me he felt 'more alive than he had for years' in the few months immediately after telling his wife he wanted out and he got a bunch of new hobbies, bought a racy new car, started socialising a lot more, applied for an impressive new job in a different field. But now we're months later still, when he has his 'new life', which is permanent and not in jeopardy it just looks an awful lot like his old couch potato one.

I suppose what I'm saying is 'What do you envisage your new life being like? What in it is completely incompatible with remaining married? Do you, for instance, imagine eventually forming another relationship?'

I'm all in favour of people in unhappy marriages divorcing, I should say. It's just so happened that the two incredibly painful break-ups I've happened to see up close in the last two years have both been initiated by men who felt they'd been ground down and pruned into domestic life that had prevented them from being their authentic selves, and in both cases the post-break-up lives they have fashioned for themselves look remarkably similar to the ones they left.

The other friend had a remarkably successful food business with his first wife but claimed they were living her vision of life, doing things he'd never wanted at all, like having children. He now runs a similar type of business with his second wife, and it reflects her interests -- things he would have been extremely cynical about before they met. To be honest, I can already see the seeds of his second divorce. I think he may be just someone who drifts into relationships where he temporarily adopts the interests of the other person and then blames them for it when he gets bored. The sad thing is that he's lost both his adult children, whom he appears to view as his first wife's project.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm saying 'Everyone must always grit their teeth and stay' -- that's not what I mean. I think I've just seen a lot of pain caused recently by people who blamed their spouses for what they didn't like about their lives in middle age.

ChainsawBear · 03/04/2020 13:39

Why did you feel so alive during your separation, though? What was actually different?

If you just plain don't want to be married, or don't want to be with your wife any more, fine. Or if what you really want is to live alone, perhaps you could remain married but live separately. But all this seems awfully woolly. What is it you actually want from being single, bearing in mind that the novelty of it will rapidly wear off? And are you sure you aren't just blaming your wife for any midlife disappointment that you haven't made what you wanted of your life?

willkeegan · 03/04/2020 15:41

Thanks - great questions and food for thought.
Ravenmum & ChainsawBear => Why did you feel so alive during your separation?
It was as thought my life went from monochrome to colour. Partly a full career and raising family is exhausting, partly a climate of control and criticism that had set in which had killed me and the marriage with a thousand cuts. Why alive when separated? I reinvested the time and energy freed up by the empty nest and separation into things I love, my work (I essentially work for myself), friends, connecting with old friends and I made some new friends, outdoors stuff, music, lots of music, I love music .... No control, no criticism and I loved the freedom. I'm still doing many of these things, well until lockdown came along.
=> Gutterton
How long have you been “back together” and “back home living together”? Sounds v recent.
Yes, we got back together at the end of February
Did the division of assets have a bearing on decision to try again?
Yes, it would have been a bit like starting again at my age, which is scary but this was not a defining reason. I am not materialistic and we'd agreed something she was happy with and I figured it was doable.
Were you having these thoughts of leaving again before lockdown?What did it feel like when you got back together?
Are your feelings to leave now different in nature and intensity than the feelings to leave when you first left?
At first we set out how we wanted things to be and we did well. But its so easy to settle back into old habits as a couple - particularly after so long - lock down makes it harder. The control and criticism has stopped so it's not aversive as it was before, I was active unhappy before and just wanted to run away. I think we both know if that starts again its definitely over. Now I am more wondering if we can change and make each other happy. I ask myself if the relationship has run its natural course and were we all meant to be married for 40/50/60 years? My grandmother, this is the honest truth, farted loudly at my grandfather's graveside - an extraordinary act of contempt after 50+ years of marriage.
Have you had any one to one therapy?
This is a good idea. I have found it helpful before. I had a very therapeutic (and difficult) experience recently as a witness in a historic abuse case in relation to the school where I was as a kid. It was worth years of therapy to do that.
Did you come back due to guilt (DC, DW) or because you knew that’s what you wanted for your future.
I had to look up these abbreviations, but yes one of the DC has had a really hard time recently and we have prioritised supporting her. But mostly we wanted to see if we could make it work.
Where I am landing is - my wife and I need to give this our 100% for a good period, and I need to continue to do all those things that I can now do given the kids have grown up. At some point we need to ask honestly, can we make each other happy?
This all seems self-indulgent when two colleagues' businesses just went bust, another friend's mum died last night of coronavirus ...

OP posts:
ChainsawBear · 03/04/2020 15:45

Have you considered some joint counselling? You could almost certainly access it virtually, and it can be very helpful in breaking dysfunctional patterns. If there is still love and things you value in there, it can be worth a try.

Gutterton · 03/04/2020 15:55

How is your intimate life - is there authentic affection and a mutually satisfying sex life?

LovesNettles · 03/04/2020 16:04

Here OP. Take a look. Might help.

willkeegan · 03/04/2020 16:04

=> ChainsawBear I agree, but there are some shit counsellors out there, the one we had recently made things worse and DW left very upset on each occasion asking if it was doing harm than good. It was doing more harm than good.
=> Gutterton Gosh, this personal :-/ Yes, waned with young kids, and control and criticism are a real turn off for me. But we've been compatible physically form the get go and when we first got back together there was a level of understanding and intimacy that was extraordinary. For me intimacy and connection and sex and very intertwined.

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Gutterton · 03/04/2020 16:12

That’s a v positive sign.

Sounds like there are some unresolved issues with your hurt around the criticism. Have you forgiven this? Is this out in the open for discussion with your wife? Has she apologised? Were / are there any other issues?

Sounds like you lead a v fulfilling life career wise, socially and with hobbies. Do any of these involve your wife? Does she have a similarity enriching life?

Gutterton · 03/04/2020 16:18

How would you feel if she decided to leave?

www.gottman.com/

This is a great resource - sign up to their daily marriage minute email.

Ester Perel is also another highly regarded expert - find her on YouTube and Tedtalks.

ChainsawBear · 03/04/2020 16:30

There are certainly some shit therapists, but there are also some excellent ones. It's a shame you've had experience of a bad one - but if you really do want to give your marriage 100% and/or have the best chances of an amicable separation with minimal baggage, it's worth trying again and "interviewing" several to see if you can find one that's a better fit for you.

TheArchSorcererofContwaraburg · 03/04/2020 17:33

She may be thinking the same thing. Instead of assuming you have all the power here, sorting counsellors and what not, why not speak with her because you might find she wants to end things, too. So you can both move on.

willkeegan · 03/04/2020 19:30

Thanks you - my friend was right about MumsNet.
Lots to think about and I know what I need to do.

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