Should I leave my relationship of 30 years after the lock down

[willkeegan]

We've known each other for 30 years and married young (we're in our early 50's). My wife is a really good person, we know each other better than we know ourselves, we're good friends and ostensibly have a good, comfortable life. Together we raised two kids who now have their own lives. There is so much to appreciate and celebrate from the last 30 years. We've had our ups and downs and had a trial separation recently, had some therapy and worked hard on things and are now back together. Neither of us has had an affair.
Deep down I think I am free spirit, not constitutionally the marrying type which is ironic given we're coming up to a big anniversary. While we were separated I felt alive and whole, which is strange as the romcom fable is that we should feel that way when we're "married happily ever after." I don't want to hurt her or the kids, in fact that's the last thing I want to do. Even as young adults they really need us. Frankly, I've also always felt I am "punching," she could do better than me, but she says she loves me including my flaws. There are quite a few, I can up and down, I had some tough stuff happen when I was a kid, but mostly I have tried to be a good dad and husband. My friends tell me, your marriage is good, you're a fool to contemplate giving it up. Others tell me a relationship has a lifespan and it's healthy to recognise when it has run its course. I feel there is a fine line between authenticity/freedom and selfishness/wanton destruction.
Yes, this is a mid-life crisis, no there is no other woman (or man), sports car etc. Rather the pandemic lock down has me re-examining my life and asking what is best for me / us for the next phase of life.
Thank you.

Hm, I can see why you would have felt better alone. Do you have any examples of the control and criticism you'd be willing to give? Has something fundamental changed now to make you feel as if the controlling and criticism won't return? Was it more your wife who thought the counsellor was so bad; did you feel as if actually the counsellor had made any valid points?
I agree that some more one on one counselling might be useful.

To throw away a thirty year friendship/marriage and hurt the kids
Do you think the two of you would be capable of making a divorce as painless as possible for the kids? Mine were teenagers when we broke up, and though it was an unpleasant breakup, both of us parents have done our best not to vilify the other or make it a total drama for the children. My son had some counselling at the time, but actually more for his anxiety issues and the affair nonsense before we broke up - afterwards it was like lancing a boil.

The thirty year marriage doesn't retroactively cease to exist. And honestly, in your early 50s you could easily have another 30-year marriage ahead of you.

How do you react if you feel controlled? Is it a fight or flight response?

Maybe both of you have individual counselling?
And then, if you both feel positive about staying married, find a good marriage counsellor.

Thanks ravenmum. You are right of course, ending a relationship doesn't negate it, although a bad ending and DC hating you for ending it can colour the whole thing. Your questions are spot on. I am sure like everyone lock down highlights the weaknesses and problems in relationships; its hard to escape and everything is under a microscope. You seem to have a crystal ball because the control and criticism is creeping back. I thought it wouldn't because DW knows that that was made me so unhappy and what triggered me to initiate the separation. Examples, I have probably cooked 80% of the meals these last 3 weeks (which is fine, I like cooking), but last night I used up left overs to make a meal, lots of eye rolling and jokes dressed up as banter about a left overs meal, no thanks for cooking; sit down to watch something on Netflix and when I pick up my phone to see who texted me (it was one of my DC) more eye rolling for looking at my phone while watching TV; go out for a run, told my outfit will attract the attention of gay admirers (banter again, ha ha) - probably about a dozen such things a day - I am sure I am over-sensitive but I find it so aversive after so many years of it and I just I want to run for the hills. That combined with feeling unseen and unappreciated makes the relationship seem pretty dead. But, you know this is probably normal and if I put more into it, she might too.
I think I will try some counselling, but need to find a good counsellor - Life is too short, I have to stop dithering, make this marriage work for us both, or call it a day. But honestly, the look of betrayal I know I will see in my grown DC's eyes if I do that - I couldn't stand that, it would destroy me.

Interesting. I kind of feel like you, although I've never had a long relationship.

I don't know how you've been in the marriage for thirty years.

It would be hard for your wife now. I'm 50 and I cannot imagine wanting to be married. I feel more comfortable knowing I owe nobody my company.. But if I'd been one half of a couple my whole adult life I know I'd find it very hard to suddenly be ''alone''.

What's your attachment style? I know I'm anxious and avoidant. Bit of both. It hasn't made relationships feel like 'home' for me.

Agree with previous posters that “free spirit”, “not the marrying type” is self-absorbed bollocks. No such things. You also don’t actuallu “know each other better than we know ourselves”. You were together for many years, and raised DC to adulthood, and now are not sure if you want to be with your wife for your future.

Having only v recently moved back in lockdown with adult DC and their boyfriends sounds hardcore! That won’t be helping matters.

Why did you separate? It sounds like it was your decision?

If you no longer love/like your wife, best plan for a future without her, and tell her so that she can do likewise. If you still love her, wouldn’t rule out further couple’s counselling, with someone BACP qualified.

@FatMatress I do recognise that type you describe, the type who drifts in to a marriage and then takes stock and doesn't realise that it was their aimless drifting that lead them on a circle to nowhere they wanted to go. They don't recognise that it was their own lack of intention, decisiveness etc.. That is a real lack of awareness and seems like a different situation to the OP's to me.

I don't think relationships feel like the default to everybody. To me, being single just feels normal. For a long time I guess I fought that but now I know Ill feel either nervous about being rejected, OR stifled and suffocated by what's expected of me when the relationship is established.

So being single feels like freedom, just the freedom from any expectations. I agree with @ravenmum that announcing you're a freespirit before ending a marriage would sound completely nauseating though!

What do you mean “control” and “criticism”? The examples you give sound like your wife was rude to you (and homophobic!)

Why are you assuming that your DC will react negatively? Natural for them to be upset, but if you treat your wife respectfully and fairly (eg no affair/immediate dating, money, no badmouthing her) it’s probable that you will retain a good relationship with them.

I am very much in favour of ending relationships that don't actually bring joy and happiness and are just habitual. However you need to be prepared that you may be single for a long time, you might never have another significant relationship, who knows. You will get carried away with being allowed to date and do whatever you like and this will seem great for a while but it will lose its shine and you will settle into a domesticity that is different to what you have now but still pedestrian and probably not very fun.

Still, it's better to be bored and/or lonely on your own than in the wrong relationship. Just be prepared for the boredom and loneliness before you make a decision.

I think there are plenty of guys who have your experience. I also think the ones that decide to divorce, many of them end up really unhappy for various reasons. Some find out life isn't greener in the other side, some move into new relationships with younger women who want kids and then they are revisiting a whole different life and what they don't like is when their ex starts a new relationships (usually a lot longer after them) and find happiness and they hate seeing it

I have seen both sides of this. I suggest you think carefully and be sure before you act to move on

Mateif a women came on here and said her husband made all those jokey (hurtful) comments shes be told to.ltb.

.

Thanks all - these are food for thought. There seem to be so many expectations about relationships, how we should lead our lives. With careers and raising kids it is all too easy to not have any space to stop and ask "is this actually making everyone happy?" I felt for about 22 years I was mostly just keeping the show on the road.
When is friendly banter just mean? I don't know, but it makes me feel crap and when we got back together we agreed to cut it out.
Good to know what comes across as self-absorbed bollocks - I better avoid those terms then :-) We had 3-4 sessions of couples counselling and the therapist did say I seemed like a horse that had been stabled and wanted desperately to get out and DW did find this nauseating and never liked the therapist after that. The therapist did a 1-1 with each of us before the couple's sessions and she was the one who said, "it seems to me this relationship has run its course" and I remember feeling when she said that, "yes, that's about right."

Why do I think my DC will hate me? Well, my youngest, now at University, said a propos of nothing "you're thinking of leaving mum aren't you, I can see you've fallen out of love. I just want you to know if you do that I'll never speak to you again." The eldest never said anything but when we got back together after the separation she was so much happier. I am sure you're right, if I handle it well it will probably be okay, but I know them well - there will always be a shade of betrayal and disappointment in their eyes.

... probably about a dozen such things a day - I am sure I am over-sensitive but I find it so aversive after so many years of it and I just I want to run for the hills. That combined with feeling unseen and unappreciated makes the relationship seem pretty dead

First, you definitely are not over-sensitive. Your wife`s constant digs and criticisms are in fact quite extraordinary. Death by a 1000 cuts indeed! But it seems that you just take it, whilst inwardly seething. Presumably you've tried to talk to her reasonably, but she just doesn't get it and/or slips back into her usual rudeness. What happens if you, calmly but firmly, pull her up on it every single time?

You say you and your wife are really good friends, but this doesn't come across in your posts. Feeling that the relationship is dead and wanting to run for the hills - WOW - those are very strong emotions. You don't seem the impulsive kind, so you should definitely listen to yourself. I'm not saying act on these feelings, but don't dismiss them.

Your adult children's feelings, though, should not be part of the equation. Of course you care about them and don't want to hurt them, but this is your life. Your only one and precious life, as the wise Mary Oliver so eloquently said... [Talking as someone who left a 40+ year marriage and not regretting it, so I may be biased...]

If you decide to leave, make sure you have a proper plan, or at least a firm outline, of what you (realistically!) want your new life to be like. You don't want to end up just drifting and doing the same old on your own instead of with your wife sat next to you on the sofa.

Think about your DW in another relationship.
What if you don’t meet anyone else?
It sounds like you DW is not happy as well.
Talk to her.
Once you are able to go out and about again, can you see a way of being happy while continuing you marriage, can she?
If not go ahead with your plans to separate.
Who knows, you may find your way back to each other eventually.

Well good luck with that. My husband who was most definitely punching and he was a pretty awful husband. It was me that consistently made all the effort.
He too had grass is greener syndrome and left a week before a big anniversary which I had spent some weeks arranging the celebrations for.
Everyone knew as I had to ring round and cancel everything which was just so humiliating.
i almost had a complete breakdown because I believe in marriage and really worked at it.
Well off he fucked and what happened is his "new life" didn't work out, he is scrabbling about for work, his friends have deserted him, his new relationship with a dominatrix of all things didn't work out, he is living in a shitty flat all alone with no friends or new woman and has gone into a pathetic decline.
He had absolutely no idea that I did so much for him, cleaning, cooking, all the household bills and organising, doing everything.
I work full time so am completely self sufficient.
i have a big family, he has nobody.
He's been fired from his last job for turning up unkempt, clothes not washed or ironed, teeth not cleaned as he has no idea that his breath stinks if he doesn't clean his teeth.
The young women he hoped to shag didn't materialise. Lets gace it what younf woman wants an over 50's lothario, it's all a bit Peter Stringfellow.
He has asked to come back several times but I will not have him back, once you go you stay gone in my opinion.
I on the other hand have my own lovely house, my social life has boomed, I have a lovely boyfriend and no longer have to clean up after a slob with no idea of personal hygiene who wants kinky sex 24/7.
Its given me a total new lease of life and my social horizon is expanding by the day. I've never felt happier.
Do the old gorl a favour and leave her.

Who knows, you may find your way back to each other eventually

I can tell you that never happens, once a woman is free of an idiot she never goes back..

@madcatladyforever... Your description of post-separation life is very eloquent - but I think it may be the OP's wife who is likely to end up sad and lonely, whereas willkeegan could thrive, as he has a healthier attitude to life and interpersonal relationships.

What gets me is that expect massive praise for cooking!!! I did cooking, cleaning, everything for x amount of years and it was just all taken for granted. Not one thanks in all these years.
Have you ever considered that your wife is constantly sniping at you because she is sick to death of you?
Were you supportive during her menopause or did you exoect everything to be normal? Did you get up in the night with the kids, do an equal share of housework, make an effort on birthdays or anniversarys, so many questions.
A marriage is not a success by accident, it requires a huge effort and self sacrifice to be worth anything.
I'm wondering how she would describe you tbh.

Many people often think the grass is greener, and go and "live the dream" while realising its not any better and miss their old life .What about counselling /? maybe DW feels the same ,Often people can get into a rut and think is this all there is? Do you feel you missed out when you were younger, or feel envious of your children and their freedom.Whether you divorce or not ,you wont be 21 again! Do you go on holiday together or for W/E away .It is hard being married for so long in many ways ,everyone feels a little bit like you. But doesnt act on it through fear ,or feeling that their partner is special after all (sometimes after an affair! )or just that they dont want to upset the status quo! No one can tell you what you should do .Often this situation may carry on and unless they meet someone else, or there is a life changing event it will be difficult to give up a safe life for fear of the unknown

Thanks, more food for thought, some harder to digest than others. I do have good friends, from every phase of my life, I know relationships change over time and that they need care and attention. I think there is a lot to Gotman's 4 horseman that predict divorce: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling - www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/
That's why when we got back together we agreed to really be mindful of criticism and control but more than that try to be there for each other, try to make each other feel good and have some joy.
Was I always as supportive as I should have been as a dad, yes, as a husband, I could probably have done more.

Henry Miller isn't on Mumsnet but he did say in his book This is Henry:
"What are we here for if not to enjoy life eternal, solve what problems we can, give light, peace and joy to our fellow human beings, and leave this fucked up planet a little healthier than when we were born?

I wonder if its your own feelings of inadequacy and fear that she will leave you because you arent good enough so now you want to be the one to walk away and be free from that fear?

I am curious as to what the content of your wife’s criticisms are. What is she actually saying and doing? There are things that are really getting to her. Perhaps the carping is an indication of deeper irritations or perhaps she is genuinely at the end of her tether with day to day stuff.
Are you really listening to what she is saying to you, or just brushing her off as annoying?
There isn’t anything here about what you think she is feeling or needing. Your focus seems to be entirely on yourself.

You have to remember too that your relief and feelings of freedom during a temporary separation aren’t necessarily what you will feel a year on for example.
How would you react if you left and your wife met someone else with whom she was really happy? How would you feel if your kids became bonded to a new step dad and you were in the outside looking in?
You may have a wonderful life alone or find a great new partner. Thirty years of being with someone is something that can’t be replaced easily with a new partner. You have spent most of your adult life together.