Should I leave my relationship of 30 years after the lock down

[willkeegan]

We've known each other for 30 years and married young (we're in our early 50's). My wife is a really good person, we know each other better than we know ourselves, we're good friends and ostensibly have a good, comfortable life. Together we raised two kids who now have their own lives. There is so much to appreciate and celebrate from the last 30 years. We've had our ups and downs and had a trial separation recently, had some therapy and worked hard on things and are now back together. Neither of us has had an affair.
Deep down I think I am free spirit, not constitutionally the marrying type which is ironic given we're coming up to a big anniversary. While we were separated I felt alive and whole, which is strange as the romcom fable is that we should feel that way when we're "married happily ever after." I don't want to hurt her or the kids, in fact that's the last thing I want to do. Even as young adults they really need us. Frankly, I've also always felt I am "punching," she could do better than me, but she says she loves me including my flaws. There are quite a few, I can up and down, I had some tough stuff happen when I was a kid, but mostly I have tried to be a good dad and husband. My friends tell me, your marriage is good, you're a fool to contemplate giving it up. Others tell me a relationship has a lifespan and it's healthy to recognise when it has run its course. I feel there is a fine line between authenticity/freedom and selfishness/wanton destruction.
Yes, this is a mid-life crisis, no there is no other woman (or man), sports car etc. Rather the pandemic lock down has me re-examining my life and asking what is best for me / us for the next phase of life.
Thank you.

Lots of good questions and advice, which takes me back to the idea of some counselling - individual and couple's. There are doubtless two perspectives (4 if you include the DC). I think she would say she loves me faults and all, but gets frustrated that I have such high expectations of myself, life and other people and wishes I worked less hard. I think she'd say I was a very good dad and a good husband, for many of the thirty years, but we had our issues at various points, particularly early on. She thought the life we had / have is mostly good and the problems can all be addressed. She feels we are best friends and she was the one who said "we know each other better than we know ourselves." She was very shocked how unhappy I was and that I wanted a separation. She has good friends, a good job and great relationship with the DC. She says if we had separated she'd likely have moved to a new city and got on on with her life. We'd agreed how to split things in a way that she thought was fair.
I am so grateful for the advice, and it seems lots of questions get raised, and I going to try and find a decent counsellor as my next step - clearly I have stuff to sort out as a first step.

My XH was always making “jokes” at my expense he was quite witty though so it took me a long time to realise how abusive it was and when I tried to explain how it made me feel he carried on regardless.

He left just over ten years ago and unexpectedly my life since has mostly been much nicer. Until that point I had literally always been in a relationship of some kind and vaguely assumed I would be again once I got over it all. Instead I have been single and very quickly realised how much nicer life is and miles from those talking about being beached on a sofa . I too felt more alive , back to being myself and the freedom of choice about absolutely everything was and still is wonderful. There is absolutely no reason to think you couldn’t lead a really nice life from the description you have given of yourself but I would agree you should be prepared to remain single.
There was a poster on here years ago who often used to say that people are allowed to fall out of love and leave relationships and shouldn’t be berated for that and provided it’s all done with thought and decency I agree.
It’s a shame one of your DC has said that and impossible to say how long they would keep that stance but ultimately it shouldn’t be the deciding factor.
Good luck with whatever path you take

Do you agree with what your wife thinks about you? Do you think she has a point?

Thanks comingintomyown. That is so wise. I'd like to think that whichever path is chosen, it can be made to work, I have friends who are happy and unhappy single and married. I certainly don't want to live my life based on fear, life is just too precious - that's so obvious particularly now with coronavirus. But it would break my heart for my relationships with my DC to be damaged and over-shadowed by what they would regard, rightly, as the choices I made.
RosesandIris - yes. I think she is figuring out still she needs now kids have left home (well sort of left) and its true to say I have more outside interests and friends, and she'd acknowledge she still needs to figure out what she wants to do in this next chapter of her life.

You are evading the question though there willkeegan. Do you think you have overly high expectations of people and work too much? I am not asking what you think your wife needs in relation to herself, I am asking what the basis is for her nagging? What is she trying to communicate to you about what she's feeling about YOUR relationship?

The adult DCs’ views should not be a weighty factor here. What your youngest DC said to you was very unfair. They may well not carry through their threat should you actually divorce.

Could it be that part of the freedom you felt was from ditching responsibilities you'd felt living together, like doing things for the kids, or to support family life, seeing or doing anything for the in laws, agreeing with someone else what to eat or watch? Is that the boring stuff that you feel ground down by?
Some of this stuff will get humdrum again. You won't have to live with the kids but you'll have to pick up with them again at some point. Cleaning up your own crap is as boring as cleaning up with someone else, albeit you can choose your timing.
I'm all for leaving an unhappy relationship, so if you are unhappy, make the leap. Do make sure it's actually the relationship you're unhappy with and not just the reality of being a 50 something year old dad.
You mention sniping from your wife and being oversensitive to her comments, this could be contempt on both sides, which is hard to fix. If both of you have tried to be good humoured but every little thing the other one does or says just pisses you off a bit, it's probably better to split up and retain a respectful but distant co-parenting relationship (if the kids are young enough to need that).

Do you think you are both a bit bored? Can't you have some adventures together (after the lockdown)? Sexual chemistry can actually be hard to find and you have so much history together. Having great sex while traveling and trying new interests may be something to try before jacking in what does sound like a basically good marriage. You can assume everything will always be OK but companionship and shared memories gives so much. If you suddenly found yourself vulnerable such as having a serious illness would that change how you feel? Would it make you more determined to leave if you knew you only had a few more years or less likely?

Unless, if and when you separate, it’s positioned to them as a joint decision it’s likely to cause damage in your relationship with them but the key will be how their mother is.
I made a point of never bad mouthing my ex and indeed for years propping up his image in many ways because I wanted them to maintain a good relationship with him. My DC were a lot younger at the time than yours but I imagine this would still be a huge influencing factor in your case

RosesandIris, sorry, not consciously evading your question. I do have high expectations and work hard (I sort of work for myself and love my work). I asked her about this and she said she respects me for it but worries I drive myself too hard. You asked "What is the basis for nagging?" I didn't use the word nagging, I don't think we nag, we both learned about 20 years ago that trying to change your partner or nag them into doing things doesn't work and is a recipe for unhappiness. The criticism is as I described above and has sort become a habit. Your question is brilliant - what is it communicating? Honestly, I don't know. Hurt about the separation, garden variety irritability / fatigue, contempt/anger that can build up over time - yet again, suggests need to talk :-/

comingintomyown. You remind me one of my friends. She negotiated her divorce with incredible dignity (her three kids are also younger, even though she is my age). They had therapy for a year post separation to work everything out and now co-parent with tremendous love and skill. Her kids find it confusing at xmas they said "if you're able to do this so well, why aren't you married?" But my friend is really happy and plans to stay single until the kids are ready to leave home. I know my DC, they take tough positions on things and can be uncompromising. One of them hasn't forgiven a primary school friend for a mis-step! So they are in the foreground of my mind when I think about this.

womanlywiles. You're right of course. If I or my DW got coronavirus now vs if we were single- light and day. Doesn't bear thinking about. But needs thinking about. I think if we were divorced and she was very ill, I'd still want to be there for her, if she wanted me to be. But who knows how that would all pan out. To love and be loved, in the end that's all here is.

I'm with @Gre8scott on the banter thing.
When is friendly banter just mean? "Friendly banter" means two friends, both joking with one another, certain that both are enjoying it. Anything else is not friendly banter.

Why do you think your son said that to you? Does he mean that your wife would be worse off in this situation if you left? Can he not imagine your wife getting together with someone else and being happier than ever? Are you able to talk in depth and seriously with your children? If not, maybe that needs working on.

The therapist sounds a bit odd. They are not meant to tell you that the relationship has runs its course (or anything else really), and of course your wife did not want to be told that she was the nasty keeper holding back the wild stallion and preventing it from running free. Apart from anything else, that is too much like the sexist 1970s stereotype of the poor husband being prevented from enjoying himself because women are shrews. That alone would piss me off no end. Sounds like you got yourself a crappy therapist, and that really is a shame if your wife doesn't want to give therapy another chance as a result.

What might your future bring if you leave? Sure, you might end up doing the same things, but alone. That's not necessarily a bad thing if you can live with yourself better than with your wife!
My exh got dumped by his younger woman and is now in a long-distance relationship with another younger woman in South America. I don't think he's living the dream, but I doubt he'd want us to get back together any more than I do! I went out and had fun dating, and frankly that has been really good fun. No plans to return to domesticity any time soon; now in a kind of live-out relationship which we are both happy with. I don't think it has to only ever be either superficial dates or boring marriages.

The people commenting are all shaped by their own experiences - when someone is anonymous we tend to assume that they are like us, or the people we know, which could be totally off the mark or could be spot on. You'll have to filter through and work out what applies best to your situation, but yes, you'll get some tough comments on Mumsnet

Some random thoughts fwiw ...

Some things don't add up here. You say your wife is a good person, but good people aren't generally adversely critical and contemptuous all the time. So which is it?

Also, call me old-fashioned, but I dont really understand this language about "authenticity". To me there is nothing more authentic than a long term relationship where you put up with the mundane, the snoring, the constant tv news, the socks beside the laundry basket and not in it, but still love the person despite those irritations. To me that is the definition of authentic.

We all feel bored and confined sometimes. But is it not possible to go away for a few weeks during the year and do your own thing?

If you have the ability to be free and be "your authentic self" all the time then surely there comes a point where that becomes mundane too?

Does your wife want you to stay? If I were your wife I would be mortified and saddened that you were feeling this way and would want you to leave. I would rather that then you stay on sufferance tbh

Two things occur to me which may be completely wrong so apologies if so:

1. If you feel put upon, and there is a sense you have been punching above your weight all these years; is this "shall I stay or shall I go " situation a way of you regaining the upper hand?

1. Are you observing your young adult dc, and their boyfriends, and perhaps feeling jealous that you are no longer young?

Finally, I think there are two simple tests that are useful to apply in a long term relationship:

1. How do you feel walking alongside her in the street?
2. Do you feel happy when you hear her key in the door?

Good luck!

@willkeegan.... have you read The 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse, by John Gottman? I think both of you might find something useful in this book.

Ha, silly me! I hadn't scrolled back to page 2 and missed your comment - LOL....

DW and I just spoke. We know what we need to do, but whether we can do it or not, that is the question. She added, we have different expectations, "I feel like we're doing well, inching forwards, you don't always see it that way." I guess I am with Margaret Mead when she observed relationships go through major phases that have to be negotiated if teh relationship is too service. Seems so obvious, but harder in reality.
Thank you, there is so much generosity and wisdom on here and also some real hard truths which are not always easy to hear. I've also learned which words and phrases to avoid at all costs :-/

Nothing really to add to the conversation. I agree counselling may help.

One thing struck me is that you thought your grandmother farting at her husbands graveside was a show of contempt. That may be so. But alternatively one common side effect of childbirth and ageing in women is incontinence. Most people (men?) think that is only urinary because of the commercials for pads, but it’s not. It also includes incontinence or the loss of the ability to hold in farts.

My partner left his DW after 35yrs together
He worked hard, did most of the childcare (taking children to school after Night shift) bedtime routine, all the cooking and cleaning up.

She gave up her job without discussion with led to debt and loss of the house, her spending was out of control.

He also faced constant digs and "disappointment" in him.

All he wanted was to feel appreciated, in the end he left. My marriage was the same.

Life is too short to just make do...

And all our children came round

I think she is figuring out still she needs now kids have left home (well sort of left) and its true to say I have more outside interests and friends, and she'd acknowledge she still needs to figure out what she wants to do in this next chapter of her life.

By next chapter, do you mean the post-divorce chapter of her life ? (After she's had her divorce party ? Champagne, streamers, that sort of thing ?)

I doubt she will be sorry to see you go. You sound hard work at best and arrogant and self absorbed at worst.

You said you've done 80% percent of the cooking for the last three weeks. You recently made a meal out of leftovers and they made fun of this and didn't even thank you. Did they eat it ? (Can't help but wonder what it was, but, no matter.)

Have you always without fail thanked your wife for the catering etc etc etc etc that she has done for you/the family for, um, so that will be 27 years 11 months and one week ? SMH (shaking my head)

Seems to me you want to end your marriage despite your protestations to the contrary. You've got your wife on trial e.g. you had better be nice to me or I'll leave - again. This time for good. It's the unspoken, 'watch your step' that bothers me. Don't get me wrong, I'm assuming you have never and would never lay a finger on her.

You're kind of in love with yourself really, aren't you ?

You love you job. Good. Long may it continue. You've got hobbies plus friends old and new. God you're fantastic aren't you ?

What's she got ? It's the fact that you've weighed this up and think you are better than her that grinds my gears.

Did I understand correctly that the financial settlement has been agreed by her ? So, does that mean it's in her favour ?

Do you consider yourself a victim ? A martyr ? Or what ?

To love and be loved, in the end that's all here is.

OP if that’s what you think then think super carefully before ending your marriage

@WaterIsWide

That’s a very good post and the OP might get something from it if he reads it carefully.

Thanks.

The OP's writing style borders on verbose or if that's only spoken then his writing style is purple prose. To many, 'set pieces' i.e. control and criticism.

Can't help but wonder why...…..

Interesting content from your DC. Has the criticism gone in their direction at all? If she has been habitually unkind to then in the same bantery way, they may well be keen to please, which may show itself in protectiveness.

Totally agree with you @WaterIsWide the exact vibe I got. 'Control and criticism', might as well just call her an old nag. The three weeks comment made me laugh too