To take his word for this?

[olivetreelane]

DH has form of lying and has previously been caught out messaging other women etc.. and a previous emotional affair. We have had counselling and talked at length about boundaries and things that trigger my suspicions (that have on occasion been incorrect) but of course I am not at peace as yet on this road to recovery...

He's been away on a training course for three days this week in his relatively new job. I knew he was in a group of men and women and he said they are at the pub each night etc.. all fine.

I mentioned something regarding COVID19 this evening and he said ah yes I know about that; I was sent some pics by someone. I thought 'someone' and asked who... he said a woman on his course. He seemed quite coy and I thought rather than jumping to any crazy conclusions I simply said ah can I read them (meaning the messages regarding the topic but also I found it strange he's swapped numbers with a woman from somewhere else in the UK who he will never see again and bearing in mind the fragile road we are on).. but guess what; the messages have been deleted! No number, no messages. The photos she sent (albeit covid related and innocent ) are still in his photo stream but it is strange that he has deleted the thread when he never deletes anyone else's messages!

Thoughts wise mumsnetters?

He says he didn't need them. Usual bullshit! I feel it's the same as all the previous times; if nothing to hide then why delete- then I can decide for myself? I can't cope with this level of uncertainly and mistrust. I just needed to write it down I think.

Ach, op. What are you doing? You know you’re going to kick off a bit then say you believe him and continue on till the next time, honestly what’s the point of it. Just stop questioning him instead of playing this game.

He cheats. You catch him. He lies. You kick off, he lies some more. You pretend it might be innocent. He acts pissed off, you decide to put it behind you, say you’ll believe him. Rinse and repeat.

Next time just don’t ask. Save the anguish,

Get rid get rid!! I've been doing this for a long time ? I've snapped out of it and kicked myself up the arse he's had to go and you need to do the same !! Getting counselling to carry on being with this man is a waste of time and money !! Get rid THEN get your therapy and work on you and not his shitty relationship !!! He's done it once he will never stop trust me if he had made a mistake the first time he would have shown you how not to worry not given you another reason !! If it was fixable it would have been fixed he'd have made the effort already and he'd never let you worry again ! Xxx

He gave her his number so she could send him a coronavirus related picture?? I smell very strong bullshit

How did I lose so much self respect to allow him to do this to me, over and over again?

I live my life now constantly unsettled, constantly on edge and never in a happy, secure little bubble I should and deserve to be in.

He's done this to me even from the first year. It's been every year, for 12 fucking years! Not always significantly but always over that line, and they the ones I know about!

@yesterdaystotalsteps123 I know! That's what I said. I'm a mug, aren't I? Apparently she sent them to everyone in their group, on their course!

I found them on the internet this morning! He's also done nothing with such pictures either!!

How long before someone puts this up

www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-unified-theory-of-cake/
Unparalleled in excellence and accuracy .... you know the cycle

You aren't a mug because this can be the game changer where you find yourself and put yourself and DC first and forge a great life without this pathetic specimen holding you back. It's hard but worth it I'm nearly 5 months in after years of lies and gaslighting and I will make sure I protect myself in the future. These abusers do teach us (painful) lessons. You can and should have a better future

He did this to you once. All the other times, you've done it to yourself by having him back again and again.

I think I would find it easier if he just physically cheated. I keep making allowances for him because I (and he) minimises it all; it's only chatting, it wasn't like that, we were just friends, I only want you, I never intended to do this/ that etc.. same with all the porn, searching women over and over and even finding him on dating sites a few years ago!

He's absolutely ruined me. He feels like I am unfair to him now as he 'behaves' for 3, 6, 12 months etc.. don't think I have reached a 12 month period yet! Arghhh

Not rtft but I'm aghast that you went to counseling and all that palaver. He would have been out the door after the first misdemeanor if I were you. Do they really change? Especially when forgiven? Really? Why are so many drink drivers repeat offenders? 🤔

Yeah his behaviour is appalling but you need to stop accepting or forgiving it. Tell him you're done with his shit

I guess in truth it doesn't really matter if he's lying or not at the moment, it's about the bigger picture....forget the individual occurrences....ask yourself are you happy? Do you feel safe and loved? Is this the life and relationship you want? I think focusing on these smaller events is an understandable way of avoiding the wider issue so you don't have to deal with it x you sound so miserable though-just try and take a step back x

Out of interest, if sharing his number with another woman he's just met to have some innocent photos and then deleting the history (if that is the simple case this time), given our history, do you feel he has done nothing wrong?

He feels he has done nothing but been honest with me this time. Or am I being deluded? I can't see the wood through the trees right now.

Every time he does something you go to him and say "I see it. I know you are doing wrong. Please lie to me. I want to pretend it isn't happening."

You are doing it now. Begging for more lies.

You know exactly what he is like. You can leave or you can stay. He does not get to choose which. It is not dependent on whether you had definitive proof that the lies you requested were indeed lies.

Normal behaviour is for you to stop asking him for lies, stop reacting to him saying he wants to keep on as he is and for you to be quiet. Normal is for you to say fuck this shit, ignore every word out of his lying mouth and instead spend your mental energy on getting a solicitor to help you end this slow death.

I've never been on a training course and given some random man my number. Would you do this op? Given you're married? No, you wouldn't

He's shady as fuck
Why have you been letting him disrespect you like this for over a decade?

Let's be honest if you trusted him you wouldn't be asking a bunch of strangers. The trust has gone op and you'll be guessing his every move in the future

No I wouldn't have given my number out to a guy like that. I did say that to him and he replied it's no different to giving a business card out. Only problem is he gave his personal number and he doesn't have his own business/ need to connect with her for any further working relationship.

And no, I don't trust him. I haven't since I realised the extent of his deceit on previous occasions but he has this way that makes me feel that it wasn't that bad or wasn't as it appears to be and I take him back.

Only problem now is I spend too much energy worrying and it's a pretty toxic relationship now.

I just need to find the strength to get out and work on my self worth. Whether this time was innocent he has still over stepped the line by giving a much younger woman his number whilst away for three days (I time I often feel anxious anyway- which he knows) and deleting all evidence of it! Most of his previous encounters have mainly been with colleagues too!

She’s much younger? There’s a surprise...is she a scientist then? You know with him giving her his number so she could update him on corona virus? Wonder why he deleted the texts,,,whatever could the reason be,,,

@Bluntness100 no, she's not. I hear you loud and clear! It's something I would not do and it's something he has been told multiple times not to do.

Olive, I know this is hard to hear, but, imho, your husband doesn't love you. He may give you some lip service that he does, but that is all it is, sorry.

He is a cheat. Certified. Most cheats go to extraordinary lengths to conceal it. However, your special kind of bastard doesn't bother to hide it. In fact, he is flaunting it-travelling with men and women, getting texts from her.
He is baiting you, whether he is actually cheating or not (this time). Why? For entertainment. He knows you will be upset and be hypervigilant, and argue your side. And yes, that is his entertainment -just using you for sport. You are going mad with anxiety and he is laughing at you. Immensely humiliating.
The only answer, imho, is drop the rope and walk away.

This treatment of you is dispicable. Whether your "marriage" is over or not, I would suggest that you stop having sex with him. You will not be able to recover any of your sense of dignity or self respect while you still allow him to f*ck you.

And off to the clinic for an STI test, pronto.

Or should he not be putting me in this scenario anyway, despite the context? It's the fact I have no way to check for myself as I do not believe him. Why should I now, he's often told me things that have turned out to be something else. hmm

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...

I'm not saying you are insane, but you definitely are a slow learner. He keeps showing you that he doesn't care about your feelings, over and over again. You don't trust him, but you keep on hoping that he will change.

Even more importantly, you seem to base your self-worth and self-respect on his actions, rather than on your own perception of your value. Saying that he ruined you is over-dramatic!

You say that you "spend too much energy worrying and it's a pretty toxic relationship now". Why not kick him to the curb and spend this energy on self-growth and enhancing your self-esteem?

Whether he's telling the truth (he isn't) or not, this can be the straw that broke the camel's back. He's taking the piss and has been for years. He will carry on because he knows you will accept his bullshit like you always have done.

Let this be the time you decide you aren't living like this anymore and ditch the waste of space.

but he has this way that makes me feel that it wasn't that bad or wasn't as it appears to be

When you ask for explanations you are telling him and telling yourself you are not leaving, you are staying for more.

Stop talking to the lying cheating sleazy fucker. Start planning your exit. Stop negotiating your remaining.

I know I have been weak but I have made many (yes too many) allowances to try to understand his need for external affirmation and the fact he hasn't taken any of these occurrences to a physical level. I do always hope each time will be the last but even this time he is treating me appallingly as he feels hard done by for me being mad that he only took some innocent photos from a stranger, and nothing more.

I will sort it out. And when I said he has ruined me, I meant my self worth, self esteem etc.. not me as a person. Sorry that did sound dramatic.

Op, don’t try to intellectualise it. It’s not about seeking validation
He’s just a common or garden cheat. He goes with, or goes after, women he’s attracted to. You’re not making allowances as such, you’re trying to excuse it, minimise it, so you can justify staying with him.