Feeling DH is domineering. Can't face it.

[Earlgrey19]

Going to Relate with DH, but so far it's putting me more intensely in touch of feelings of resentment, and I'm feeling like I can't stand him to be around, though he's not doing anything hugely wrong. In many ways he's a decent human being and good Dad.

I think the worst aspect for me is that I find DH domineering, even though none of the instances are terrible, and they arise out of rigidity rather than a desire for power for the sake of it. I'll give some examples:
when he gets tired at night he wants to go to bed that second, and I have to jump into action to get to bed too. He doesn't want me to come to bed any later, because he says he can't get to sleep knowing that I'm going to come in (as this will disturb/wake) him. If I take the time to wash my face, put my clothes away etc. (he is very quick and leaves his clothes on the floor), he can get agitated and cross with me. It's stressful. So he gets to decide. I feel that a lot of our life is lived like this, with me having to accommodate to his way of doing things, and his views, or else deal with his stress/anxiety/agitation. He cannot tolerate difference of opinion. Another example: he has decided that during the peak of the corona epidemic in the UK we should self-isolate for 3-6 weeks even if healthy, to avoid being ill during the time when the health system is most overburdened. This may have some logic to it, but my point is that this is what he has decided, and it would have quite a big impact on us all. I'm not working at the moment, so I can't refuse on the grounds of work, so perhaps he thinks I should just go along with any plan he thinks is best. I'm just so often feeling, 'what about my point of view?' !!! If it differs from his, he won't accept it. I'm not a passive or timid person (though I do find conflict stressful) and I do speak up, but the Relate sessions so far have made me realise the extent of how awful I'm finding this aspect of our relationship. In the last session he was talking about a past row, and telling me 'Your intention was x, and you were feeling x' when the counsellor suddenly stopped him and said, 'you can't tell her what her feelings and intentions are, you need to rephrase that'. I thought, my God, yes! he does this a lot! At the moment I'm feeling like I want to leave so I have the freedom to make my own choices, feel my own feelings and have my points of view without them being squashed if they disagree with his. But I'm financially dependent, and it's going to take me a while to get my ducks in a row, maybe a year. Plus I feel terrible for the kids, like I'm being selfish, when he hasn't done anything awful, and they have good relationships with him. In a bit of a dilemma.

Really read @jamaisjedors threads. They sound frighteningly similar

Who made him the Boss of you?

I wouldn't worry about the DCs if it comes to shared custody, because as soon as they're old enough they'll likely bail out on you both as they won't like their home atmosphere. If you stay for 'the kids sake' they won't necessarily see it like that. You'll be a cowed woman. & men like this often start to dictate to DCs once they start to grow.

You could leave, and live in peace. Peace is a treasure. Living with a bully is the pits

Now we just had another row about me having said he’s bullying me, which he brought up. He says he would do anything to support me and it’s true he has been supportive of my career change, health problems I’ve had which have meant him for along on night duties when DC wake up etc. He said I’m anxious sometimes and he supports me but that I can’t stand his anxiety, that I find it too stressful and now I’m just calling him a bully, when the instances are just about disagreements and impatience and that everyone gets frustrated sometimes. I told him that his anxiety is so intense I feel it does dominate our lives and I’d like him to have some professional support with it.

I don’t know, I feel so full of self-doubt and unheard at the same time. I do think he genuinely can’t understand what I’m saying and that it’s linked to autism and impaired empathy/ability to see other perspectives.

Yes, I’d like to live in peace. Though so afraid of what it’d mean in terms of not seeing the DC for big chunks of time.

OP, when your children reach the teenage years there will be hell to pay in your home.

They will hate him.
They will avoid him.
They will argue with him.
There will be either constant conflict or silence.
They will see how he has treated you for years.
They will be pissed that you have stayed.
They will get the hell out of home asap to get away from him.

Dominators drive people away.

Help yourself to help your children's future.

Wishing you well.

A slightly different perspective here, but my ex has no empathy either - he is definitely quite far along the narcissistic spectrum & cannot cope with being challenged. He has to be right & to win.

It's part of the reason why he's an ex.

I couldn't continue in a relationship where my feelings & needs were ignored. The relationship only worked if I tiptoed around him & succumbed. I was fed up having to compromise all the time & sacrifice myself to make things work - it wasn't a partnership.

Fuck that!!!

He said I’m anxious sometimes and he supports me but that I can’t stand his anxiety, that I find it too stressful and now I’m just calling him a bully

He's the one making you anxious.
He's telling you what you feel, & how you should feel. He's not hearing you. Didn't you say earlier anyway that your Counsellor pointed this out him? He's just repeated to you exactly what the Counsellor pulled him up on! So he's not even listening to the Counsellor. & I expect he always has to be 'right'.

Why won't you see your DCs for big chunks of time? Do you imagine when you split he will take them over, do the school runs take them to appointments etc, all that childcare entails? I doubt it, even if he claims he will.

Ultimately if you want to stay for the DCs sake it is up to you. Maybe you will find a way to cope.

Men like this impact negatively on their partner's mental health. Health is precious. I'm not of the mind that any man is worth life being blighted like this, nor that children should be subjected to seeing this kind of poor behaviour as a relationship model. The years fly by - hopefully you won't end up in miserable regret.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do.

Thanks, yes, as you can probably tell I’m quite torn. On the one hand I’ve been unhappy for a while, fantasising about splitting, doing lots of the necessary research for that etc. On the other hand the stakes are so high, it changes everyone’s lives forever and I don’t want to change DCs lives so radically if this is actually about me (and him) needing to work harder on couple’s issues.

I do think he makes an effort in lots of ways, but he does have this persistent problem of anxiety turning to agitation, which I’m just finding it hard to live with.

Re. fearing big chunks of time away from DC, that’s because I expect he’d want 50:50. He is super dedicated to the kids. They are only 2 and 5 and I’ve been at home with them the last 5 years. I was planning on getting part time job now anyway, but it would have to be full time to support myself in a house big enough for them. Even that’s a big leap in the time I’d spend with them compared to now , then they’d be at their Dad’s half the time. But obvs if things are too miserable and irreparable then that’s what needs to be done in everyone’s best interests. Hard. Guess my own therapy will help me figure it out.

I'm not sure he would get 50:50 if you've been the main caregiver all their lives.

Have a read of these, OP:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3463341-Married-to-someone-with-Aspergers-Support-group-here-Thread-3

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3524836-Married-to-someone-with-Aspergers-support-thread-4-replacement-one

Does he manage to control his anxiety, annoyance, frustration, agitation etc when he is at work?

It sounds like he is very used to being able to
dictate what you do.

I expect if you wish to change this, which the counsellor seems to be facilitating, it will get worse before it gets better — he will go through a period of finding it all highly unreasonable, unsettling and disempowering. He will cling onto controlling tactics as they are his security. (Particularly if he is insecure anyway which he would appear to be from the OTT reaction to Corona virus and your cough) He cannot reasonably expect to control what you say and do, but since he has been doing so for a long time he has been accustomed to a disproportionate amount of power in the relationship which will be hard to relinquish.

You might decide to cut and run but you could, with individual plus couple counselling, find a way forward and new shared patterns for living with healthier ways of making decisions and a better balance of power.

@NotNowPlzz You wrote: This can be a wonderful opportunity for personal growth for you. It was for me. I learned to be assertive with him and this is actually working wonders throughout my whole life. I think the key thing is to not be afraid of arguments and not to try to keep the peace. But to expect equality in everything, and when it's not there, to fight for it. Do not back down. Let him be angry

This is what I need to do, but somehow seem unable to be assertive in my relationship. Please can you tell us more about how you did this - how you dealt with the enormous arguments that must have ensued when you stood up to this domineering partner? Perhaps some matras we can tell ourselves or phrases we can use.

OP, I empathise. It's so bewildering to be in this situation, especially when your partner is actually mostly a nice person. Some examples from my life: I''m not "allowed" to cut bread if he's around to do it (OMG the fuss that ensued after my slightly asymetrical bagal slicing!), it's also not possible for me to drive when he's in the car (I'm perfectly fine driving by myself) and woe betide us if we lean against one of the walls in the house.

In fact, because of the fuss that it causes, I can't do anything in the garden at all (I loved gardening when I lived by myself) or any kind of home deocoration. It's just not worth the drama and justification.

Funny, I feel so stupid to have got into this situation. I feel so silly writing this down and admitting that this is a reality in my life. Why am I so passive? But writing it down is my first attempt at owning my situation and finding strategies to change it.

OP, have you tried reading about obsessive-compulsive personality types (it's a different thing from OCD but might ring a few bells)?

OP. You wrote: What feels controlling is how agitated he gets when I don’t conform to his anxiety-fuelled routines

This rings many bells for me. Also, every time I attempt to tackle this kind of behaviour, the same argument comes up, exactly like what you wrote: He is saying that I’m not accounting for my part in the dynamic, that we should be working on what we both contribute and that I am just blaming him and it’s not right.

I wish I had some answers but I'm afraid I don't. I'll be interested to see if @NowNowPizz can give some pointers.

@Forrest1000 you are “not allowed” to cut bread??? Holy crap that is amazing. Who put this idiot in charge? How do you stand it? WHY do you stand it? This is very extreme.....

I know it sounds bizarre but for an adult woman to "let" her OH dominate like this I also know how it can happen. My ex worked in a slightly different way, it was more PA and needy, but it was SUCH a pita to deal with him if he wasn't getting his way, that I ended up in a state where I just let him control things a lot of the time or kept things from him.

Sometimes I did stand up to him - but it was exhausting because he was very hard to argue with as he would keep moving the goalposts and denying what he'd just said. And then, if I won the argument and he didn't get to decide something for once, there would be payback later - for example he'd refuse to do something else, lie to the kids that he wanted to something nice for them but I wouldn't let him, "accidentally" forget something important etc etc etc.

Sometimes I'd manage to argue my case - for example he always wanted to go everywhere by car, and sometimes that was daft (e.g. there would be nowhere to park, meaning we'd be driving around for hours looking for a space) so I might try to persuade him we really needed to go by bus. Then he'd "give in" and agree, and then he'd just take the kids outside and put them in the car. You get to a point where you just can't face the continued conflict.

Also, another thing was that I hated it when I'd state my opinion or needs in a situation, and he'd just ignore it, or pretend to agree then "forget" about it, or just dismissively belittle and sneer at my suggestion. It wasn't just about getting my way - I would have happily agreed to a compromise or to what he wanted some of the time. It was more that that experience of being dismissed, ignored or belittled really hurt, and slapped me in the face with the reality that he didn't care about me, which I didn't want to admit for a long time. I avoided the confrontations to keep the peace with him, but also to maintain my own belief that we were OK if that makes sense.

I also felt I wasn't "allowed" to drive if he was there, but he never said "you aren't allowed to drive". He just made this massive thing about loving driving so much, and being better at it (he wasn't/isn't!) and if I was driving I just felt very watched and judged.

@LadyMadderRose Your experience of the driving issue with your other half exactly mirrors mine. It's not as if I'm forbidden from driving, but that being very watched and judged makes it sooo difficult (same with the bread cutting, by the way!)

I too avoid confrontations to keep the peace, and to maintain my own belief that it's OK. In contrast to @EarlGrey19, I didn't grow up with a model like this from my parents. They are a pretty harmonious pair and work as a team, though I realise that I have picked up some passive aggressive tactics from my mum.

@Comtesse I really can't believe I'm in this situation myself! I'm a professional, I have a good job, I have a PhD in a technical subject goddamitt!!!

Forest maybe that's not a coincidence. My ex saw himself as Mr lovely, equal-minded feminist and would never have admitted to trying to dominate, even to himself probably. He would protest (too much) that he thought my career was great. But he was always subtly undermining my achievements and was absolutely desperate to ensure his professional status was above mine. My career has a creative "cool" side and he clearly hated the way people were impressed by it and would always try to turn the attention to his own projects. On reflection I've come to see how classically misogynist he is and couldn't bear not to be top dog in every way or to have a woman be better than him at anything, and my professional success made him more controlling.

Actually one of the most ridiculous things was that he also claimed to be better than me at cleaning! He never did any, but that was beside the point - he knew better than me how to do it.

It's funny now because I'm free of it, and I just roll my eyes and think "what a twat, what was I thinking". But when you're in it and trying to find the courage/conviction/wherewithal to leave it is hard, very hard.

@LadyMadder,

Your posts hurt my head to read!
The frustration must have been enormous.

I could definitely see my MH being very seriously compromised living with a man like that.

I could also imagine the self doubt and feeling like you were going quite mad.

How great it must be, to be free of that relentless stress.

Thanks Billy! Yes totally. My anxiety was sky-high, I was exhausted and felt like I couldn't breathe towards the end. Also I did sometimes argue, and it was so frustrating and infuriating that I would end up shouting, and then he'd immediately turn it onto me being aggressive and mean, and he'd cry so I'd feel guilty.

It's been several years now but I still feel I'm only just getting through the recovery stage and "finding myself" again, not to sound too cheesy. And I am a very strong, independent, ballsy feminist woman or supposedly. It really did my head in.

The message I'm getting from this discussion (and threads) is this: We are all aware of the horrors of an out-and-out violent, sexist, bully as a partner. But the insidious undermining carried out by a partner (especially by someone who regards themself as kind and egalitarian) is very very damaging too. And it's something that you can slip into with little awareness.