Feeling DH is domineering. Can't face it.

[Earlgrey19]

Going to Relate with DH, but so far it's putting me more intensely in touch of feelings of resentment, and I'm feeling like I can't stand him to be around, though he's not doing anything hugely wrong. In many ways he's a decent human being and good Dad.

I think the worst aspect for me is that I find DH domineering, even though none of the instances are terrible, and they arise out of rigidity rather than a desire for power for the sake of it. I'll give some examples:
when he gets tired at night he wants to go to bed that second, and I have to jump into action to get to bed too. He doesn't want me to come to bed any later, because he says he can't get to sleep knowing that I'm going to come in (as this will disturb/wake) him. If I take the time to wash my face, put my clothes away etc. (he is very quick and leaves his clothes on the floor), he can get agitated and cross with me. It's stressful. So he gets to decide. I feel that a lot of our life is lived like this, with me having to accommodate to his way of doing things, and his views, or else deal with his stress/anxiety/agitation. He cannot tolerate difference of opinion. Another example: he has decided that during the peak of the corona epidemic in the UK we should self-isolate for 3-6 weeks even if healthy, to avoid being ill during the time when the health system is most overburdened. This may have some logic to it, but my point is that this is what he has decided, and it would have quite a big impact on us all. I'm not working at the moment, so I can't refuse on the grounds of work, so perhaps he thinks I should just go along with any plan he thinks is best. I'm just so often feeling, 'what about my point of view?' !!! If it differs from his, he won't accept it. I'm not a passive or timid person (though I do find conflict stressful) and I do speak up, but the Relate sessions so far have made me realise the extent of how awful I'm finding this aspect of our relationship. In the last session he was talking about a past row, and telling me 'Your intention was x, and you were feeling x' when the counsellor suddenly stopped him and said, 'you can't tell her what her feelings and intentions are, you need to rephrase that'. I thought, my God, yes! he does this a lot! At the moment I'm feeling like I want to leave so I have the freedom to make my own choices, feel my own feelings and have my points of view without them being squashed if they disagree with his. But I'm financially dependent, and it's going to take me a while to get my ducks in a row, maybe a year. Plus I feel terrible for the kids, like I'm being selfish, when he hasn't done anything awful, and they have good relationships with him. In a bit of a dilemma.

OP, I'm wondering if you have always felt like this or has it come to light since having the DC? Sometimes having kids means you don't have the patience for the bullshit anymore.

I think your parents relationship is clouding your judgment. It sounds like you're comparing your DH's behaviour to your father's, but because he's not physically violent, it's not as bad. Behaviour can still be abusive without being violent. Chances are the children will notice. My mum had mental health problems and was very controlling as a result. It was her way of coping with things. She has OCD and is probably autistic as well, although never diagnosed. I am now a very anxious person which I attribute back to my childhood.

That aside, even if his behaviour is normal, so what? You are not happy with the relationship. You don't have to put up with it if you don't want to for any reason other than you're not happy.

I'm interested to see how he's responding to your counseling sessions. What does he think of his behaviour?

You say 'rigidity', I say 'controlling'

My advise is that you are currently going through a process with relate and this sort of realisation of issues is expected, it means the process is working in a way. Your husband has lots to work on clearly, and in sorry you’ve had to deal with all that, but the process will take time. If you’re not 100% certain you want to leave him I would wait and see if there are any small improvements but remember it will take time. The councillor saying to him “you can’t tell her how she feels” was a revelation to you, I imagine it was as much of a revelation to him too, if you hadn’t noticed it before it’s likely he hadn’t either. Keep going to the sessions and doing any “homework” you’re given as a team and remember it’s not about two sides trying to win over the other, you’re wanting to work as a team together to come out winning together :)

To respond to your original post where you said you "feel" he is domineering, I think the clear answer is that he IS domineering. It's not in your head.

When DH and I first moved in together, I had this issue with him not coming to bed with me. I don't think it was so much about being disturbed, although it might have been. But mostly it was that I felt that as a couple we needed to go to bed together combined with the fact that I thought if he didn't go to bed early enough, he wouldn't cope in the morning.

DH was pretty unhappy about this. And he made me realise that I was being a complete autocrat. That he is an adult and is perfectly capable of deciding when he sleeps and how much sleep he needs. I also came to realise that I had childhood issues as my mum always went to bed very late and was a complete waste of space in the morning which I had resented. He pointed out that he was not like that.

I am embarrassed about how I tried to decide something as simple as bed time now. I still believe that going to bed would help foster more intimacy etc, but I don't believe that forcing Dh to go to bed at the same time as me is the answer to replace this. My point is that while I'd still prefer he came to bed with me, I have realised my desires are not relevant in this case because he's an adult and an autonomous individual.

My guess is that your DH does not see you that way at all. And he probably doesn't see the DC that way either so as they get older and start trying to assert independence, this is going to become a problem. He's clearly a bit paranoid/nervous about things. So at what point is he going to "allow" the DC to walk to school/visit friends/ go for sleepovers/ have their own phones/ attend social events etc alone? Because I'm going to guess it will be much later than other children. And your children will be the ones who suffer as a result.

To those suggesting my own counselling: yes, already recently started that, agree vital.

This evening he tried to just present problem as understandable emotions running high with coronavirus (our daughter has previously had health issues, though I don’t believe she’s in a risk category now). I said yes, understandably it is an anxious time, but said there have been other examples and that what it adds up to, re anger and agitation if I don’t conform to him might be borderline abusive. He closed down conversation immediately and said ‘that’s very upsetting’ and stormed off.

You are in an abusive relationship with a nasty bully who shuts you down with anger.

Make no mistake about that.

Also it is not normal. At all.

Wishing you strength OP

Thank you. He is saying that I’m not accounting for my part in the dynamic, that we should be working on what we both contribute and that I am just blaming him and it’s not right. I have to say I’m doubting myself all over again. Have I presented him unfairly here, in too skewed a way, which is making everyone say he’s a bully/abusive. Or not? I find it really so hard to know.

He doesn’t have to agree with you for it to be true. Your views are valid too.

He tells you when to go to bed? Fuck that.

Forget Relate. I would be going to see a solicitor to start the divorce process.

Two things I’ve learnt on the MN Relationship boards are:

• if you are unhappy in your marriage, you can leave. You don’t need a reason.

• Don’t ever tell a controlling partner that they’re a controlling person. They don’t seem to understand they’re doing it.

I suggest you plan your escape.

Just to be clear, so I know I haven’t presented it in a misleading way:

He’s not financially controlling or controlling of who I see. He doesn’t insult me. Obvs he’s not violent.

What feels controlling is how agitated he gets when I don’t conform to his anxiety-fuelled routines (or measures relating to his health anxiety around the pandemic).

It's no way to live.

I said ... that what it adds up to, re anger and agitation if I don’t conform to him might be borderline abusive. He closed down conversation immediately and said ‘that’s very upsetting’ and stormed off. ... He is saying that I’m not accounting for my part in the dynamic, that we should be working on what we both contribute and that I am just blaming him.

You KNOW what he is doing is abusive, but he is a skilled manipulator who always manages to put the blame on you and makes you second-guess yourself.

People like him don't change. Not ever. Never mind how you pretzel yourself and try not to upset him - he'll ALWAYS find a way of upsetting you and making you believe it is your fault.

Please understand that there is NOTHING you can do to fix this. THIS, what you are putting up with now, WILL be your life. Unless you walk away and leave him to enjoy his misery.

Some resources for you

LundyBancroft

https://freedomprogramme.co.uk

As PPs have pointed out, this is no way to live. Also, there is no point in trying to get him to agree that this is abuse.

Focus on yourself (and your D.C.) you really don't have to live like this. All the best.

Going on what you have written I was also thinking autism spectrum. No, it doesn't matter, but his anxiety driven behaviour isn't going to go away. It also isn't a reason to stay if you are not happy (just wondering if it is a reason you tell yourself to minimise the impact of his behaviour on you).

OP, you are told when to go to bed.

You are shouted down when you don't do what he wants or agree with him.

On what planet is that normal?
On what planet is that healthy?

Get out before your children be home teens.

Ye all deserve better.

Thank you. Just read Women with Controlling Partners by Carol Lambert. Bits of it resonated, quite a lot didn’t. I think perhaps because of the possible autistic context: that makes for a bit of a different presentation from the classic controlling partner, though I agree that doesn’t mean I have to tolerate the instances of control that do happen.

If he's domineering and controlling because of his anxiety rather than because he is a dick, it does't change the behaviour or make it more acceptable.

However, if he is willing to accept that he has a problem and work on it, then, in a loving marriage I'd think you could try to support this. With give and take on both sides. At this point, it does not sound like this is where you are at.

How paranoid are his family? I ask as this can be learned behaviour (yes, I'm looking at you PIL....) which can make it even harder to accept as a lot of the people around you will agree with your responses. In light of DS' naturally nervous view of the world, I'm starting to think it might also be genetic. But am working hard to overcome any natural tendencies!

This is your one and only, wild and precious life.

You could spend a lifetime trying to figure out Why Does He Do That. Or you could just read the book, take from it what resonates (and leave the rest), and start ploughing your own furrow.

What do you think will ultimately make you happy/happier...

I think you need to own the fact that you are not happy. Your DH does not have a diagnosis of ASD. He is an abusive control freak who dismisses your opinion and shuts down conversations that you don't agree with. Even now he is instructing you to recognise your part in the relationship issues but hasn't appeared to have reflected on his own. You have had enough of his treatment and aren't happy. On a side note tell your DH the main symptoms of corona is a fever and dry cough.....

I could have written your post a year or so ago.

In fact I did, I have a series of threads on here about my "sulking DH".

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Spoiler, I went through counselling with him and realised like you, that his behaviour was not normal.

Everyone on here advised against joint counselling but in conjunction with my own personal counselling, it helped me see that even when his issues were pointed out he was incapable of/refused to deal with them or even acknowledge them.

That might be a place to start.

With my exH, I would think we had reached a breakthrough in counselling and then the following session he would totally ignore what had been said or deny it.

This is when I finally realised there was no hope of him every changing as he was insistent that everything was my fault.

Like you, I doubted myself and wanted to be fair and acknowledge my part in things.

Like you, I had a pretty bad relationship model in my parents and my dad was violent (to me, not my mum).

Like you, I said :
He’s not financially controlling or controlling of who I see. He doesn’t insult me. Obvs he’s not violent.

What feels controlling is how agitated he gets when I don’t conform to his anxiety-fuelled routines

My exH ended up having a breakdown when I left and obviously has severe anxiety and probably a paranoid personality disorder plus he is very "rigid" as you say.

Maybe you can fix things, maybe you can't.

Your plan to get your career set up is a good one.

All I can say is that my life is a million times better now, I have moments of joy everyday when I can go to bed when I want, turn up the music, eat on the sofa, do something spontaneous...

Good luck. Feel free to DM me too.

Here's a free pdf link to the Lundy Bancroft book OP www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that.pdf

BTW my exH is also very intelligent and always managed to have the last word or talk me down.

I had similar issues with my ExH.

Trying to tell me when I could go to bed.. when I refused, he'd be up and down the stairs telling me to come to bed, calling me selfish, even to the point of turning the internet off.

I was also expected to be up when he felt I ought.. to cook, clean and do everything to his timetable.

He escalated to complaining about where I went/who I saw, expected to be able to go out when he wanted, but I had to ask permission if it meant him staying home with the kids.

I spent my life walking on eggshells and counselling did nothing to help.

Since I grew a pair and left him, he still tries to exert control, stalking me on social media, telling me i'm not allowed to go places.. abusing me when I do.

Honestly, your H will never see he is wrong, because he isn't in his eyes... eventually you will get to the point he makes you feel worthless and like you're the one with the problem.

Run for the hills!

I’m so grateful for the help here.

Even now he is instructing you to recognise your part in the relationship issues but hasn't appeared to have reflected on his own.

Yes, that’s a great way to put it and has helped me to see it more clearly...