Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do I have a right to have this?

138 replies

P999 · 20/02/2020 22:36

My ex and I split 2 years ago, around the time he came into some money when a family trust on his side was formed. Coincidence? Hmm. Up until then, i was pretty much paying for everything and putting a roof over his head. My 2DDs are beneficiaries to the trust when my ex dies. He gets regular payments from this trust. He initially promised to send me the Trust deeds and then soon after went back on that promise. His brother is a big deal tax avoidance player and had a big hand in setting up this trust, which is supposed to be one that was created to manage their dad's estate. The dad is gaga now. Im sure the brother has dobe dodgy things with the trust. It's an overseas one. My ex gets huge payouts but refuses to tell me anything about them. He pays 1k per month towards girls upkeep. But I think this is peanuts in terms of his overall earnings from the trust and his job. I've called him up over his caginess but he insists it's non of my business or he ignores me. AIBU?

OP posts:
AnneLovesGilbert · 20/02/2020 23:05

I wouldn't consider £1k plenty tbh. I earn much more than that and struggle to support just me!

OP is obliged to support the children too. He’s not supposed to be paying all of their expenses. If she chips in a grand a month too that’s a decent whack to support a couple of kids.

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:09

Hmm. Sounds like cms might actually be a bad move after all. Maybe I need to suck it up. Or go to HMRC to shit stir... out of pure vengeance. Angry. Am I being unreasonable to give him a hard time for hiding the deeds from me (leaving legal claims to one side)?

OP posts:
Riv · 20/02/2020 23:12

You do need to bear in mind that if you go to the CMS the child maintenance MAY go up, it could also go down - a lot!
It's based on earnings, not savings or investments.
If you were "pretty much paying for everything and putting a roof over his head" before his windfall. Has has he now got a job with much higher wages or is it mainly his investment that is bringing in the money? Has he learned to hide what he earns from the authorities? If his earnings from his job are still about the same, you are very unlikely to get more than you currently get.

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:14

The cash from the trust is far and away the majority if his earnings. So feels risky to go to cms. Thanks all. Sigh. I hate it when fuckers get away with it.

OP posts:
VodselForDinner · 20/02/2020 23:23

The dad is gaga now

Charming.

I've called him up over his caginess but he insists it's non of my business or he ignores me

Why would he tell his ex-girlfriend anything about his money? His finances are none of your business.

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:26

Of course it's my business.

OP posts:
Mamato2gorgeousboys · 20/02/2020 23:27

I’m sure it is scummy and you’re probably right, he is hiding how much he has. However, proving that is another matter entirely. 1k is a decent amount of cms for two children. Try and move on Op as otherwise you’ll carry the bitterness around for a long time. Instead of asking for a copy of the trust deeds, maybe ask him face to face exactly what steps he has taken to ensure that if anything were to happen to him, that your dd’s money is protected. If he feels like that is the genuine reason you’re asking for, he may be more open with you.

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:27

My kids are beneficiaries.

OP posts:
Fantasiaa · 20/02/2020 23:29

There’s nothing you can do. I advise trying to move past it tbh

VodselForDinner · 20/02/2020 23:29

Of course it's my business

No it’s not. This man had no legal or financial tie to you.

If you won the lottery tomorrow and bought a mansion, would you give him the deeds?

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:30

Thanks mama. You're right. Not sure it's worth a conversation. I'm just going to write it off. The scumbag win. I know how they operate. I'll not let it eat me up. I just wish my kids didn't have to see them too. They're corrupt cunts. All of them.

OP posts:
HagathaWitchson · 20/02/2020 23:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:32

Vods. It's a trust. My kids names are supposed to be on the trust. So when my ex dies, they are supposed to get his share of the pot. Of course it's my business. Thanks everyone else. V helpful. Going to move past it now. Or it will eat me up.

OP posts:
Surfer25 · 20/02/2020 23:33

You sound very nasty and vengeful

itsbetterthanabox · 20/02/2020 23:34

It's up to him if he puts his children as beneficiaries of the trust.
If nothing specific is in place then money will automatically go to them as his children anyway.
I'm confused why you need to know what they might inherit from him way in the future?

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:36

HagathaHmmConfused?

OP posts:
BluntAndToThePoint80 · 20/02/2020 23:36

I’m torn here.

You weren’t married and are nothing to do with that trust (ie not a beneficiary) so why do you think you have any right to sight of the trust deeds ? It’s nothing to do with you.

Like it or not, your children are his too and any private arrangements he puts in place to provide income for either himself or the children are not your business.

Your ex is paying maintenance for his children. You might not think it’s enough (and morally it might not be based on his total income), but there are rules set up regarding the level of maintenance payable - go through CMS if you think your children are entitled to more (although I suspect you’d not be).

In terms of inheritance, it’s up to your ex how he deals with this. It may be his family’s money and they don’t want you accessing/controlling it (relations there sound acrimonious at best) or it might be him that wants you no where near it ! It’s up to him how to safeguard his assets for when he dies. He may prefer his brother administers the trust and trusts that he’ll ensure the children are catered for. He might not want to leave any to his kids ( I’ve no idea if they get on, their ages etc... I personally couldn’t disinherit my children but some famous/rich folk do - Simon cowell is an example - thinking it benefits the child to have to make their own way and not rely on others).

Doesn’t sound like you two trust each other at all. You sound very bitter about him / his family. Not sure of the back story there or if you’re just mad you had children without the protection of being married. Either way, I’d stop focusing on him.

In short, you are not entitled to anything here. Follow the rules to get what your girls are entitled to in terms of maintenance if you think they are being short changed. With inheritance, it’s never certain as he could spend it all before he dies. Just forget it.

AnneLovesGilbert · 20/02/2020 23:36

Do you think the money he’s giving you, that you want more of, is made through criminal means?

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:38

No. It's not up to him. It's up to the grandfather. It's a family trust. I.e. the grandfather, followed by his kids, followed by the grandkids. But as I said, the dodgy brother pulled all the levers as the grandfather (who I have never met) is not capable of taking charge of the process.

OP posts:
P999 · 20/02/2020 23:41

Yes. I think the brother is borderline criminal.

OP posts:
Beansandcoffee · 20/02/2020 23:42

Legally it is none of your business. Your ex is responsible for the trust - it is not your money. You will have to trust him to look after your DDs inheritance as there is nothing you can do.

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:43

But the money from the trust is from his grandfather's legit business. But the brother is a master tax avoidance player who I believe is doing dodgy things with the trust. Including hiding his own assets before he's forced to go bankrupt.

OP posts:
BluntAndToThePoint80 · 20/02/2020 23:49

Also, based on your updates you don’t seem to have any grasp of trust law.

Just because one beneficiary dies, it doesn’t mean that the trust will automatically be dissolved and other beneficiaries get a share of the pot.

I can’t quite decide from your posts what your problem is. In one breath, it’s not seeing trust documents, then it’s your kids not getting an inheritance. Or is it that maintenance is to low ? Then it moves on to the brother putting more assets into the trust (which if it holds up would mean more for your kids surely), or perhaps it’s that you morally disagree with tax avoidance - which by the way is totally legal. Or is it that some of the money in the trust might be dodgy (although you don’t actually know this).

You just sound very confused and very bitter. Please just move on, forget this cash, and focus on your girls or this will just destroy you.

P999 · 20/02/2020 23:53

The money being generated by the trust is the grandfather's. The trust is supposed to benefit multiple generations. It's not up to my ex to cut his children out of the trust if he wanted to. It's not how a family trust works. But the trust is probably dirty now because the brother has HMRC up his arse for about a decade and he is furiously hiding his assets. And I'm sure he's using the trust as a vehicle to do this. Fuck all I can do. But it's not true to say its non of my business. It's just probably too complicated and bad people get away with doing bad things. And it's too beyond me to stand a chance against these people. I was adking if I had a right to have a copy of the trust deeds as the mother of supposed beneficiaries. And I suspect the reason my ex (who originally promised me copies) is because the family are hiding things. Which ARE detrimental to my kids. But I'm not claiming I have a chance in hell against people like this. Thanks people.i don't expect my kids to see a penny from this trust

OP posts: