Help me process my anger with my mother, is a somewhat Brexit related story

[mediumsize]

I am NC for this. I am just really angry and wanted to put this out there. Not sure how it will help but maybe just to vent.

Basic story is about two families:

1. My husband and I are British (but both grew up in another country) and absolutely avid Europhiles, and I have been very active in the anti-Brexit, pro-EU campaign since the referendum. All the marches, volunteering etc etc. Then Brexit actually happened, which I really did not think it would, and it has impacted us hard emotionally and, in the future, given that we have property and business interests in the EU, potentially financially. There are also other family, and in my case, strong ideological reasons for being gutted at leaving the EU.

1. My parents are elderly (late 70s) and have always been completely irresponsible with money. They do not live in Britain. They have no pension, no policies of any kind, no property and no income other than my father's small business, which he continues to run even though he is nearly 80. This is going to have to stop some time soon and he is also in quite poor health. I support them financially to quite a large degree. If my father dies my mother essentially is destitute (except not, of course, because I will be expected to support her. Oldest child, professional, good income in Britain etc).

So, my husband and I just, since Brexit Day, have decided to move (well, retire actually) to Ireland. We can get our EU passports back in 5 years, which means an enormous amount to me. We have however no ties whatsoever to Ireland, DH has never been there and I once went there for conference for three days twenty years ago, We have despite that made all the arrangements to do this. I have a pension lump sum due which will mean that, for the first time in my life since I left my first husband and he fleeced me for everything I had in return for my freedom, I will be able to buy a property (in the part of Ireland we are going to go to we can, we have never been able to afford a property in England).

So I phoned my mother tonight and told her of our plan. Her response was "well, that is a completely crazy idea". I had to bite my tongue so hard not to say no Mummy, what IS a completely crazy idea is to be nearly eighty with no assets or pension of any kind, with no plan whatsoever about what happens when Daddy cannot work any more or he dies.

I said nothing but feel so angry. I don't know why, this is not new ridiculousness from these people. When I left X country (where they live and where they grew up) for Britain in the 1980s, to further my career, my father told me "I don't know why you are leaving, you know you will just have to come back". I never did. Why am I so angry now?

I think that for most people this would be a crazy plan.

I'd assume that people who retire to Spain or France have usually visited many times over the years so feel that they 'know' the countries. However living somewhere is quite different to going on holiday. PIL have had a house in Spain for nearly 40 years but have never made the final leap.

However as PPs have said, you're different and have made major changes to your life many times and have taken it in your stride.

Re your parents' criticisms - look at the boards here. Full of people whose parents criticise and put them down.

For some reason some parents can't accept that their DC are adults and are different people to themselves. With different interests and priorities.

I had an awful couple of years with my DM when I started to pull her up on it and criticise her choices in return. I told her exactly what I was doing and why and how she'd been making me feel.

We now have a great relationship where she doesn't feel she has the right to comment with impunity.

Ironically she'd done the same to my DGM just prior to that which is what gave me the resolve.

My DGM was in her 80s at the time and my DM reckoned she wasn't too old to learn.

My point - instead of bottling things up and fuming, wait till you feel calmer and actually tell them how you feel.

It was very cathartic for both my DM and for me and our relationships improved as a result.

Good to hear about the schools OP. I wish you every success in your move.

Have you looked into financial help in Ireland? I believe there is a payment for children who require extra care, and there is a payment for adults who provide it.

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/disability_and_illness/domiciliary_care_allowance.html

Not means tested and children who receive it are also entitled to free health care - GP and prescription medicine. Afaik all children are entitled to free hospital care anyway, it's just that waiting lists are very long if you don't go private.

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/carers/carers_allowance.html

Carer's allowance is means tested but I think it's on a sliding scale of sorts. I have definitely heard of half rate carer's allowance. I didn't read the page so I'm not sure.

There's also child benefit of €140 pm regardless of any means. Every child gets it till 18.

I appreciate that perspective, thanks.

One thing I really really don't get, and have been very surprised by in the way this thread developed, is why so many agree with my mother in thinking my retirement plan is "crazy" (even some of those who acknowledge that we may well make a success of it). When I posted initially I was focused on trying to deal with my mother's persistent negative attitude to my choices, I did not imagine so many people would be agreeing with her!

I know why my mother thinks it is, that has nothing to do with the retirement plan itself and everything to do with how she reacts to any major life decisions I make, because of her own issues. But the reality is I am planning a (trial and possibly temporary) retirement in a country very nearby, which is beautiful, stable and safe, where I speak the language, can afford property, will have a good standard of living, and of education for my son, and I can easily run my business from. My stepdaughters who live in Europe can come home just as often and easily as they do to the UK (OK it will take half an hour longer on the flight...big deal).

It will mean we get our EU citizenship back, and after we do, we can stay in Ireland, move to our "holiday" EU country (or indeed any other EU country we like, including the one where my elder stepdaughter seems likely to settle down) or come back to the UK. What is so crazy about that? At the very least it will be an interesting and stimulating adventure (with the bonus of the citizenship at the end of it).

Many many people throughout history have moved to countries where they had no previous experience. Some had no choice of course, but think of Windrush, think of Irish and Italians moving to America, Indians and Pakistanis moving to the UK, all looking for a better life etc etc. There are endless examples. Many of these people have been highly successful. Are people going to call them "crazy"?

The difference is, of course, most of those people moved during their younger years, often with families to look after. A much more difficult prospect. They didn't bring a pension with them, they didn't have a successful business which they could carry on running across borders. They had to try and find jobs and make their way in the new country, from scratch, there was no guarantee they could make a living. It was a far more daunting prospect. I don't have to do that, I have my pension, my lump sum to buy my house, and my ongoing business, which I can do from anywhere as long as I have a broadband connection.

I just do not get this "crazy" thing!

Oh thanks for the info about the benefits! I had already looked into that a bit. DS gets higher rate mobility and middle rate care DLA here, and it looks like at least something similar is available there. We would not qualify for any means tested benefits, we do not here either. We don't get child benefit here because that is means tested of course, so that would be a bonus in Ireland! But we are fortunately not in a position where the benefits are a make or break issue for us.

@Apileofballyhoo you have been extremely helpful, I will PM you once we have firmed up where in Ireland we are going to be, in case you have any further tips! I really appreciate your helpful attitude!

Oh it all makes sense now.

You are from South Africa.

When you're an immigrant yourself and come from a long line of immigrants, it is indeed hard to understand why people would think it was such a big deal. Must be the same on the other side 🤷

Maybe some people are also annoyed at your implication that the UK is not the best place in the world to live 😂

Because child benefit isn't means tested here a lot of people manage to save it for their child's future so that's something to consider.

Well, I am not from South Africa in the sense that I was born there, or am South African. But I grew up there. Amongst people from all over, the school that I went to had people from many countries, Italy, USA, Portugal, Greece, Israel, I could go on... (unfortunately of course, being 1970s South Africa, no people from other African countries...)

And my family are indeed rather multinational. My father is British but born in Palestine (as it was then), his father came from Lebanon, my father grew up mainly in the middle East and went to boarding school in Switzerland. My mother is South African , as was her mother, but she grew up in the Netherlands, the UK, Nigeria, Lebanon and a number of other places as her father was an airline pilot. (Which is why her weird attitude to my moving countries is all the more puzzling, except of course, it is not about that at all, it is about her needing to be critical).

Well OP I'm of the belief that everyone has something to contribute to society and that that enriches culture so I'm glad when people immigrate to Ireland, and I hope you are happy here.

I'm sure you will find many people that admire you for leaving SA if you ever get around to telling that story. There was a big story here when I was a child when the workers in a certain supermarket refused to handle grapefruit from SA. Just ordinary people doing their bit.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnes_Stores_strike

Yes, they did still have some Outspan Oranges boycotts when I got to the UK. I left straight after university, I had to really as my first husband and I were heading for trouble because we were active anti-apartheid activists at uni and people were starting to disappear/turn up dead. (Also he refused to serve in the military, so would have been put in jail anyway...)

Because South Africa is a much better place now? They have just got rid of Zuma who looted billions, the airline is going bust and so little has been spent on the electricity supply that there are constant power cuts. Crime is out of control, but it’s much better now!?

No it's not better as far as I can tell (but have not visited it for many years, and don't really follow the politic any more, and my mother's rose-tinted view of everything South African doesn't represent reality).

Why the aggression? When did I say that South Africa is better now?

It is weird the tangents that this thread, ostensibly about my relationship with my mother, has gone off on!

OP has been consistently critical of SA...
I'd give up on this thread if I were you OP, lots of weird projecting and xenophobia going on.

I will do that raven. It's been very helpful but has also taken some distinctly odd turns. See some of you on craicnet in the near future!

Wow - an interesting thread as I have been passing the time while doing some boring printing.
I think what you have is a family issue - and if it wasn't complicated by borders and issues of where to live then you would just have your fairly common problem of a poor relationship with your parents.
You have displeased them by taking a completely different approach to life - anti apartheid, internationally mobile and following a path that is very different to them. However because they are financially dependant on you they don't say this directly - but will passively jump on any opportunity to criticise. Because there is no way they want open and honest communication that may risk their comfortable setup.
I wish you all the best and I like the attitude of writing off their financial support as a tax for the remainder of their lives.
For your mental health I would just stop engaging as much as possible. Don't tell them your business/news/interests as that just gives them the opportunity to snipe. Withdraw and protect yourself - they are never going to suddenly become kind, reasonable, fair people. If you assume they will not change - you won't be disappointed. Whereas if you keep the narrative of 'if only they would think well of me, support me, be considerate of the impact of their own life and choices' then you will always be disappointed.

@EarringsandLipstick you are right. But I give as good as I get. I WILL trade in the currency you started.

It is hugely disrespectful when one is attempting to convey a spiritual meaning, to high handedly dismiss the meaning on the grounds that 'God' is unimportant to the specialness that is her. (I did not invent those sayings, they are the culmination of the wisdom of DECADES of people's suffering and it is highly, highly arrogant to dismiss it because, God).

You want to be rude and egotistical? Gloves are off.

I guess you can imagine someone saying "I am afraid that I don't believe in God" in a high-handed, haughty, derisive fashion or in a polite, apologetic fashion, depending on what kind of an imagination you have.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
OP wants to change something that she knows she can change - her nationality. Why tell her that's a bad idea?

"I am afraid that I don't believe in God" - except that using that reason means completely ignoring the message as irrelevant.

Which is, high handed, haughty and all the rest of it.

God is the irrelevant part. God can be 'Good, Orderly Direction', 'Submission' (which is what Islam means), or plain 'Not my Ego in charge'.

The rest of the message is about acceptance. Which was dismissed outright and did not even bother to engage with. Ego In Charge!

Yet, an emotional overreaction to Brexit might involve hasty decisions,

a huge diatribe against a ridiculous hobby when she pays for them

instead of expressing the real vulnerability, hurt at a mother.