Help me process my anger with my mother, is a somewhat Brexit related story

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I am NC for this. I am just really angry and wanted to put this out there. Not sure how it will help but maybe just to vent.

Basic story is about two families:

1. My husband and I are British (but both grew up in another country) and absolutely avid Europhiles, and I have been very active in the anti-Brexit, pro-EU campaign since the referendum. All the marches, volunteering etc etc. Then Brexit actually happened, which I really did not think it would, and it has impacted us hard emotionally and, in the future, given that we have property and business interests in the EU, potentially financially. There are also other family, and in my case, strong ideological reasons for being gutted at leaving the EU.

1. My parents are elderly (late 70s) and have always been completely irresponsible with money. They do not live in Britain. They have no pension, no policies of any kind, no property and no income other than my father's small business, which he continues to run even though he is nearly 80. This is going to have to stop some time soon and he is also in quite poor health. I support them financially to quite a large degree. If my father dies my mother essentially is destitute (except not, of course, because I will be expected to support her. Oldest child, professional, good income in Britain etc).

So, my husband and I just, since Brexit Day, have decided to move (well, retire actually) to Ireland. We can get our EU passports back in 5 years, which means an enormous amount to me. We have however no ties whatsoever to Ireland, DH has never been there and I once went there for conference for three days twenty years ago, We have despite that made all the arrangements to do this. I have a pension lump sum due which will mean that, for the first time in my life since I left my first husband and he fleeced me for everything I had in return for my freedom, I will be able to buy a property (in the part of Ireland we are going to go to we can, we have never been able to afford a property in England).

So I phoned my mother tonight and told her of our plan. Her response was "well, that is a completely crazy idea". I had to bite my tongue so hard not to say no Mummy, what IS a completely crazy idea is to be nearly eighty with no assets or pension of any kind, with no plan whatsoever about what happens when Daddy cannot work any more or he dies.

I said nothing but feel so angry. I don't know why, this is not new ridiculousness from these people. When I left X country (where they live and where they grew up) for Britain in the 1980s, to further my career, my father told me "I don't know why you are leaving, you know you will just have to come back". I never did. Why am I so angry now?

Yes, we were planning to retire to that other EU country after our son finished his education (he has special needs and we cannot disadvantage him further by making him change language at this time). But Brexit has thrown all that into doubt, it is by no means clear that we would be able to become resident in that country were we not EU citizens, or that our business plans there would remain feasible were we not EU citizens. Getting a passport there as a non-EU citizen is very much not straightforward, believe me we have researched this well (and it is not here in the UK either, by the way. To get my DH and his children British citizenship there was a lot we had to do, a long time we had to wait, and a lot we had to prove and pay. And that was with me having been born in Britain!). You can't just move to an EU country as a non-EU citizen, or move your non-EU (ie Brexit Britain) equipment there to use in your business. Except of course you can if you are British and moving to Ireland!

I am not obsessed by Brexit but I am determined that we (especially my son) regain our EU citizenship. His sisters both live at present in EU counties and are proceeding towards citizenship of those counties. I don't want my son stuck here, unable to live anywhere else...

That is not really right. I didn't say I refused to live under a dictator by the way, I said fascist regime. It is not quite the same. I have not moved to random counties multiple times. Once, thirty five years ago, I left a country which was having a civil war to come the UK, where I was born. I have been here ever since. I am about to retire from a successful career and am keen to embrace something new after thirty years of doing the same thing. (And somewhere new).

I was not being sneering about British people who have retired to other countries, in fact just the opposite. I know many of them. I was just saying that people I know who have retired to France or Spain have not received such negative comments as I have about Ireland.

They speak English in Ireland, which means I can work there if I want to. Most importantly, they educate in English.

Re my mother, she would have no right to live in either Britain or Ireland. My brother lives in the country she lives in and the plan would have to be that I (at least partially) finance her living with him.

Sorry, I misunderstood your post - I hadn't realised that you were born here: I thought that you had come here at 24 when you had finished university. So your parents are UK citizens also? When did they decide to emigrate outside the EU?

And it also wasn't clear that the place you own property and assets that you only have residence because the UK is currently transitioning from the EU.

The issue with your son's needs is the sticking point here. Would you and your husband consider home education? As he's retired, and you are planning to, you could then go to the EU country where your assets are now. There will still be options for citizenship and residence after the transition, just like there were before - although they aren't in place at the moment. So have you researched what the criteria are for non-EU citizens to gain residence and citizenship now? That will give you a an idea of the worst case scenario for British citizens in the event of no reciprocal deals. Yes, it will take time, and yes, there will be a cost - you seemed a bit baffled that this is the case in the UK, but a second citizenship is a privilege, not a right.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from Ireland. It would be my own first choice (despite being fluent in other European languages) but there's issues possibly around where you'll be able to live, if you need a certain type of education for your son, the cost of living can be high, and there may be other issues (not least if the coronavirus is the tipping point for the next global recession): it's not just a more laid back and friendlier version of the UK as some people seem to think of it.

I don’t think your plan to move is unreasonable or a bad idea. You’ve clearly given it more thought than many retirees that headed out to Spain and were fleeced on illegally developed properties, or who’ve come back after a year because it wasn’t what they expected.

Your anger at your parents’ life choices is a bit more difficult though. IMO, if you’d wanted them to make better choices you are probably 20+ years late in having that conversation with them. I honestly think it’s just something you have to live with or it’ll just chip away at you. Take a deep breath and move the conversation on - don’t engage if they bring it up.

Ah, cross post.

So if your mother doesn't have the right to come here automatically, then, how about moving there? This would be the easiest way for your son to get a second citizenship so he isn't "stuck here". Previous comments about two retirees being able to home educate - though presumably he's been brought up bilingual, since you are passionate about being able to have choices - apply.

But you really, really don't need multiple citizenships to have choices, or face being "stuck here". I have lived and worked all over the world, though only briefly in Europe. I have one citizenship. I still - like billions of other people in the world - was able to do this. Yes, I worked for the EC, so that was related to being in an EU member state.

But the world is a lot bigger than that, and being stuck in Europe, because it's the soft, easy option because of the freedom of movement we currently enjoy, perhaps is also a limiting factor of people's lives. Sure, it's easy and "safe" - but it really isn't the only option. People from all over the world live and work in countries where they don't have citizenship - you just need to be open to possibilities and do your research.

Sorry - just realised that sounds like I was living and working all over the world for the EC: it was only the few years I worked elsewhere in Europe that I was working for the EC. So my only European employment was based on the citizenship criteria.

Thanks for those more positive posts! My father is British, my mother is not. They were living in the UK when I was born but left soon afterwards, for my mother's country (it wasn't "moving outside the EU" then, this was well before Britain even joined the EEC! I am pretty old!). I came back at 24, after university. Have been here ever since.

We did in fact do home education for many years, but our son needs peers and socialisation now, and we have identified potential schools for him in Ireland, that is all being sorted out now.

No-one yet knows what the rules will be around getting residence, retiring or running a business in the country we were originally going to retire to, if we have for example a hard Brexit. The rules there for other non-EU citizens are not encouraging to say the least.

I am not baffled about costs or thinking that a second citizenship is a "right"! I was pointing out to a PP that getting UK residence and then citizenship is not at all easy, as I know well, with my first and second husbands having done this, as well as my stepchildren.

Paterpower you are spot on about the fact that I should have been angry with my parents many years ago if I was going to be at all. We (I mean my family of origin, not my DH and children) are a family who sweeps things, including emotions and conflict, firmly under the carpet, and I have never really tried to challenge that. It is way too late now. I can't confront the frail old things with the chronic folly of their life choices at this stage. Not because it would upset them but it would severely upset me. To no purpose.

Moving to my mother's country? Never in a million years. I won't go into all the reasons but it is simply not an option (it is not a first world country and it has enormous problems, my son would be neither safe there nor get the education he needs, and I would not be able to work there, nor easily get to the UK for the few days a month I need to for my business). Not to mention that, as I said in my OP, we are ardent Europeans, and are have both property and plans for a business elsewhere in the EU.

My son is sadly not bilingual. He has significant special needs and is non-verbal. He would most certainly have been educated to be bilingual if he had been neurotypical (my stepdaughters, who spoke no European languages other than English when they came to live with me as children, are now between them fluent in about seven or eight, they both live in EU countries at present).

Oh I am well aware that people live and work in countries where they do not have citizenship, my DH, because of the job he did, lived and worked in possibly twenty countries in his career! But my son is not ever going to work, and few countries will contemplate applications for citizenship for disabled people. An EU passport is really his only hope of having any choices or options other than Britain (where, once DH and I are gone, he has no family whatsoever).

Then it will sounds like Ireland is the best option for you and your family by a long way. I hope it all goes smoothly.

The issue with your parents is something unconnected, though - this is the latest example of them getting on your nerves (too put it mildly) and your fury about Brexit is a red herring: it could have been anything where they expressed their dismissal of your choices that would have evoked the same response, because you are angry with them because you are under-writing their lifestyle to the detriment of your own family's life (you said you can't afford to buy in the UK - I feel your pain as I am in the same situation) and generally making up for their life choices.

As you say, though, it can be hard to confront now without massive upset on all sides. I feel you on that too. What might be useful is you pour everything out, about what they've done, how they've behaved, their expectations, your anger, fury, resentment, frustration - whatever - on to paper. Address them directly, as though you are speaking to them. Put this in a drawer afterwards, for a good few days, whilst you process the emotions that will be stirred up by writing it. Amend it then if anything else comes up.

Once you've got everything out on paper, and sat with the emotions of it all, then either rip it to shreds or set fire to it (if you are in a flat but have a metal sink, then you can do it page by page in the sink - not that I'm speaking from experience or anything ). For some reason, it's liberating, even though your parents haven't been aware of it. It is an emotional process, for sure (or I found it to be be, as it stirs up a lot and brings back memories) but I found it freeing.

I also will repeat my suggestion of seeking therapy - for you, and your sake, and that of your son, not for theirs.

Do your parents see your support of them as a cultural issue - is this sort of arrangement common in your mother's country? This might be why you are now angry with them as you are fighting to retain your EU passport and remain a Europhile while you are being reminded of your obligations which will follow you to Ireland. Perhaps your mother's criticism of your plans was based on fear for their future and a small part of you resents this? Good luck with however it turns out.

Argh, another cross post! Sorry.

With your son's situation, I think Ireland is actually your only option even more than I did before. I am not sure how happy you are with what provision there is for his needs where you are, as there's something to be said, if he's doing well at the moment, not to interrupt that - but if it's not stellar, then there's little to lose. As I say, though, I think your decision around this is just the trigger for how your parents have made you feel again through their attitude and treatment of you.

Are his sisters options as guardians for your son in the future?

Totally not the question you were asking, but re But Brexit has thrown all that into doubt, it is by no means clear that we would be able to become resident in that country were we not EU citizens - are you sure? Might be worth checking out before you move to Ireland. Here in Germany, for example, if you move here and register your arrival by the end of this year, then you can stay here as long as you like (e.g. until you get citizenship) as long as you don't leave for more than 5 months at a time.

As for what you're asking - you know your parents are irritating, you made the mistake of telling them your plans openly. Next time just make some vague comments about how you've been planning this for years for sensible business reasons, and don't mention the EU.

Here's the government website that provides information on these things: www.gov.uk/topic/help-british-nationals-overseas/europe

It’s your decision.

@Hefzi that is a really helpful post, thank you. I have actually spent a fair amount of time in therapy, in my time. My parents' behaviour (not just in the matters I have raised here but in multiple other things too, I won't go into them here) was often a focus of the work. Most of the time my anger is well-confined and managed. It is at times of life changes (like now, but also for example when I was getting divorced) when it seems to flare up. Probably largely because they always, always question my choices when a change is made. (Why did I walk out on my "lovely" first husband, for example, without any knowledge of what really happened in the marriage. Many more examples exist of them not knowing what they are talking about but questioning my judgement).

I probably won't go back into therapy at this stage, but I may well take your advice about writing it out (which is sort of what I have started doing here, I guess). DH and I have already written ourselves an essay about the plans to move to Ireland, pros and cons, including detailed financial projections but also emotional, mental health, practical, lifestyle and other factors. We did that before we started making the actual plans. I think I will do something similar for my relationship with my parents. I like the idea of a bonfire. (Ireland is nice and wet, safe to burn a few papers in your garden much of the time, I would imagine, I might leave the bonfire till I get there...! )

I would just add as a final note, I have absolutely no extended family and no close friends in the UK. I never had any meaningful family here and my friends do not live here. I will miss the places here, and will especially miss my job and my colleagues but this is not a story of someone uprooting their relationships to move elsewhere where they will be lonely and isolated. I will be no more isolated there than I am here. Very possibly less so as I will have more time after retirement from my job and I intend to get involved with all sorts of things I have not been able to do because of my all-consuming career over the last thirty years...

So these two people are completely dependent upon you and they also think they can tell you what to do?
You're a mug!
I'm sorry I know that's rude of me but I can't see it any other way🤷‍♀️

I think you’re projecting your brexit rage on to your mother which just isn’t fair. Maybe get some therapy? Professional help can be really beneficial in times of emotional crisis.

@vhs95 not this is not cultural at all. The cultural norm would have been as it is here in the UK, the parents help the children along, maybe help them with a deposit for a house etc, look after themselves through such things as house ownership, insurance and pensions, and maybe only depend somewhat upon their children in extreme old age (and even then , have some policies or pensions to find care homes etc). My parents have no property, no pensions, no form of insurance of any kind except medical insurance, which I pay for. (They don't even insure their cars, apart from third-party insurance).

My parents are complete outliers from the culture, and although I hesitate to call them selfish, because they did make sacrifices to educate me, they have been unusual in the choices they have made about what to prioritise (you may have picked up my irritation at their hobby, it is highly expensive, all-consuming and a total waste of time, which is what really gets me. But the hobby is basically how they define their identity, they are the big deals in this particular activity in the country where they live, so I have to live with that).

OP, I'd for the potential for bonfires - you can write a book, then . I don't know why it works so well, but it really does - I couldn't face any more therapy about my mother, and did that instead. And it's very satisfying setting fire to it!

And if you are semi-retirex, as you say, you might actually have the time to build a good network, instead of having to work every hour the Lord sends - and you'll have the security of your own home to boot.

Good luck !

I am hoping for a very different culture! Sorry to harp on about this but France has a very different culture and people don't tell someone they are as mad as a hatter when they buy a house in Provence and go and live there (my mother's brother, my uncle, did exactly that, but because he is not me but her supposedly wonderful brother, it was seen as something fabulous and glamorous to do!).

@Hefzi, you get it...