Help me process my anger with my mother, is a somewhat Brexit related story

[mediumsize]

I am NC for this. I am just really angry and wanted to put this out there. Not sure how it will help but maybe just to vent.

Basic story is about two families:

1. My husband and I are British (but both grew up in another country) and absolutely avid Europhiles, and I have been very active in the anti-Brexit, pro-EU campaign since the referendum. All the marches, volunteering etc etc. Then Brexit actually happened, which I really did not think it would, and it has impacted us hard emotionally and, in the future, given that we have property and business interests in the EU, potentially financially. There are also other family, and in my case, strong ideological reasons for being gutted at leaving the EU.

1. My parents are elderly (late 70s) and have always been completely irresponsible with money. They do not live in Britain. They have no pension, no policies of any kind, no property and no income other than my father's small business, which he continues to run even though he is nearly 80. This is going to have to stop some time soon and he is also in quite poor health. I support them financially to quite a large degree. If my father dies my mother essentially is destitute (except not, of course, because I will be expected to support her. Oldest child, professional, good income in Britain etc).

So, my husband and I just, since Brexit Day, have decided to move (well, retire actually) to Ireland. We can get our EU passports back in 5 years, which means an enormous amount to me. We have however no ties whatsoever to Ireland, DH has never been there and I once went there for conference for three days twenty years ago, We have despite that made all the arrangements to do this. I have a pension lump sum due which will mean that, for the first time in my life since I left my first husband and he fleeced me for everything I had in return for my freedom, I will be able to buy a property (in the part of Ireland we are going to go to we can, we have never been able to afford a property in England).

So I phoned my mother tonight and told her of our plan. Her response was "well, that is a completely crazy idea". I had to bite my tongue so hard not to say no Mummy, what IS a completely crazy idea is to be nearly eighty with no assets or pension of any kind, with no plan whatsoever about what happens when Daddy cannot work any more or he dies.

I said nothing but feel so angry. I don't know why, this is not new ridiculousness from these people. When I left X country (where they live and where they grew up) for Britain in the 1980s, to further my career, my father told me "I don't know why you are leaving, you know you will just have to come back". I never did. Why am I so angry now?

Bye the

IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT CULTURE
This reminded me of something my ex-MIL once told me. My exh was saying that he might have to move to the west of Germany for work. We lived in the east, and his mum thought moving to the west was a terrible idea, as the culture was SO different there and we would HATE it.
I'm from the UK ... she never thought that maybe the culture was already pretty "different" for me in the east of Germany.

I also don't fully understand why MNers are so against the idea of someone moving to another country. Lack of experience of international moves, never met anyone who's done it so think that it sounds totally outlandish? Maybe that's part of the issue with your parents, OP? But maybe they are also just angry that they lost their daughter all those years ago, and this is their weird way of expressing it?

@mediumsize I'd exercise a bit of serenity right now and accept that people will think what they think, and you can't stop them by posting explanations on an online forum :D

Yes good advice ravenmum. If I was not lying here feeling really sick and was able to get on and do something more productive than naval gazing I would probably have achieved a much better level of serene by now! I will try...

The very different culture thing, I bloody hope it is! I could do with something different! Not better, just different. Isn't that what retirement is supposed to be about? Last time I moved country it could not have been more different! Culture, weather, everything.

And yes, very astute. They are, consciously or unconsciously, furious with me for escaping leaving all those years ago...

I didn't "mock God". I said I don't believe in God. Not the same thing at all.

Apologies for the thread derail - just to answer Lady Sutch - Fine Gael won't go in with Sinn Féin and Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil won't go in together although they are most similar, as they are both descendants of opposite sides in the civil war and at this stage it would be the death knell of both parties. FF provided confidence and supply to FG for the past term in order to provide stability, and they've both suffered. It was Fianna Fáil's "turn" to be in now as they felt they'd been sufficiently punished for the death of the Celtic Tiger, but floating voters and FF voters switched to SF, so obviously not sufficiently punished and also being blamed for propping up FG.

It might be SF and FF together, although they've both said no it's still on the cards - though they still don't have the 80 seats between them, they'd need the Greens or a few of the smaller parties/ independents (we have lots of Independents who can be bought persuaded to vote with the government in exchange for funding for their constituencies). Plus FF only have one seat more and if they lost that they wouldn't be the bigger party.

I think Sinn Féin are hoping to pull a coalition together with the Greens, the small left wing parties and independents, but the numbers aren't really there for that either, and it would be fairly unstable.

So nobody really knows.

I just didn't want people to think we'd all gone madly nationalist, it's more about housing and health and disillusionment with the traditional parties of FF, FG and Labour. Apparently the economy has recovered but people aren't feeling it so there hasn't been a "trickle down" for most, just increased costs in housing and the cost of living I suppose. Rents are ridiculously high in crappy rural towns and villages, not to mind Dublin and the regional cities.

Sinn Féin have been presenting themselves as left wing for quite a while now. They make lots of noise about it, but they've been a small opposition party so they weren't in a position to actually prove their figures work. You can look at all the parties' positions on the political compass website.

We'll have to wait and see.

I can't believe the battering you are getting on here OP! To me you've made a pragmatic decision to move somewhere that you can afford property, get education for your child and continue to do some work as the main language is the same. As an added bonus you will get EU citizenship which is something you prize. You have the choice of a whole country and could choose somewhere with the pace of life that suits you and in an area that's a good fit - lots of places will have a network of people not from Ireland that you will find something in common with.

Your mother thinks you"re crazy which has got your goat, I can't blame you a huge deal for that as you patiently subsidise her and your dad and it seems your life choices have worked out okay for you.

I am Irish. Ireland is culturally different to the UK and it can be a real eye opener for some Brits when they move there as on the face of it it seems very like the UK at first glance. You'll find some surprises there maybe, but you've already proved that you're adaptable in moving to the UK when you were younger.

Good luck with your move. Ireland is just like the UK in one respect, it's got good points and bad points, I'm sure you'll make a good life there and hey, if it doesn't work out, when your boy has finished school, you can sell up, with EU citizenship in your back pocket.

Thank you for that @yellowkangaroo, those are very helpful words and reflect exactly what is going on here.

I don't expect Ireland to be like England, any more than I expected rural England to be like central London (moved from London to the country two years ago), or than I expect the other EU country (where we have property and would like to spend the major part of our time once DS finishes schooling) to be like either England or Ireland (and it certainly is not! That does not make us love it any less!). I hope there are surprises!

My DH is the most adaptable person I know and has lived happily in first, second and third world countries, cities and farms, peaceful places and active war zones. He finds the good and interesting in every place.

He is sitting in a pub in an Irish town right this minute (having gone there to look at properties) and is sending me pictures and rave reviews of an Irish stew (only semi-ironically, I believe!). May seem trite, I know, but we really are the kind of people who will embrace something new with humour and optimism and are not wedded to a single world view or static way of life. The very opposite of my parents. That was really the point I suppose.

we really are the kind of people who will embrace something new with humour and optimism and are not wedded to a single world view or static way of life. The very opposite of my parents.
If your parents are anything like some of the older generation in East Germany, their lives were not a breeding ground for optimism, flexibility and opening up to new worldviews. When they were young, their humour was restricted by the borders preventing them from leaving, doing what they wanted or speaking their minds. They had multiple worldviews forced upon them due to changes in their country's politics that left them more or less penniless and with no control over their lives. Every new regime promised to be different but turned out (in their minds) to be just as corrupt and uninterested in their needs as the old one - flushing out any final traces of optimism or love of change they might have had in them.

I don't know what your parents' experiences have been, but maybe they, too, are children of their times?

Maybe coming clean about where they are from might help. My mother is South African. My father is British but chose to move to South Africa in the 1960s to "escape" from Wilson's socialist government (ie to move to live in a fascist and racist country, where they would have many advantages because of the colour of their skin. Meaning my mother could, even though they were not wealthy, never have to work a day in her life and could spend her days ordering servants around and taking naps). They had quite a cosmopolitan (if very patronising "ex-pat") life before this, as young people in the 60s, they lived in a number of places including the Middle East. Then they went to SA, and never came back. They chose to live there, and profit, during the worst years of apartheid and civil war. I got out as soon as I could. So there is another layer of stuff I have never forgiven them for...

@mediumsize I also haven't appreciated the battering Ireland has got on here. Nowhere is perfect. Like you say, if you were taking off to France would people look down their nose? I know SA a little bit, have some friends there as I got to know some South Africans when I worked in London in the 90s. If you can cope with the dramatic change between SA and the UK you'll do fine with a switch to Ireland. SA from my experience has some of the issues people have thrown at Ireland - the drinking and the misogyny are right up there!

I think we all look for parental approval and support throughout our lives and you don't seem to get much of that from yours. My mum, when she was alive, cheered me on and encouraged me in pretty much everything that I did even when it hurt her (like me moving to England). She was the best and wanted the best for me. I know it's not like that for everyone. I guess you are looking for this from your parents. Anyhow that's my armchair physiologist view, if there's something in that you're entitled to feel as you do.

Interesting life, not my kind of thing either but you can see how it would affect their views. I'd be tempted to keep pointing out the similarities between their life and what you plan to do (move to another country for practical reasons). But if they are the type who are simply always right, and always make fun of you, all you can really do is stop giving them ammunition to throw back at you. The more you justify and argue, the more fun they have laughing at you?

For your sanity, I would dial back on what you share with them. You sound resentful that they cannot offer you support whilst your are patiently funding their health and wellbeing.

I can't advise on the finances as you feel obliged to keep paying but if you can disassociate yourself emotionally from the money (consider it an unfortunate"family tax"), you might be in a better place to heal your anger and hurt.

It is nice to get some views pertinent to a Relationships thread, which was my aim. I didn't post a thread looking for advice about moving to Ireland (that does not mean I have not appreciated the views expressed on that issue too, but, as my mother well knows, telling me i am unhinged for taking a certain course of action which I have carefully researched and thought deeply about, will bear no fruit). This is about my parents, not about Ireland. But by the by, some of the negative views on Ireland expressed on this thread were rather disturbing to me. And i am not even (yet!) Irish!

I've read the full thread and have a number of random thoughts swirling through me head. So in no particular order....

1. I think a lot of people think you are mad about the Ireland move because I think most people would worry about possibly regretting the move when they had made it (especially seeing as you've never really been there). However you are clearly not most people and you are happy with your plan, so this really isn't anyone else's business. Nor is it what you asked for advice about. Given that, I can understand why you are getting a bit pissed off.

1. You keep saying that people don't react like this when people retire to Spain or France. I'm not sure you are right there - I suspect lots of people get this reaction if they move to somewhere they have never really visited.

1. I think, unfortunately, you probably picked a poor example of your mother's lack of support for you. I agree that her comment wasn't supportive, but in these circumstances I think many people would have the same reaction as your mum (as evidenced on here!)

1. Unpicking everything I think the issue you are trying to tell us about is that your parents are irresponsible in their own life choices, leaving you to have to pick up the pieces, and yet give you no support in your own life choices, portraying you as the irresponsible one. I can see why this hurts. You said you don't want to try therapy again at the moment but I think that might be the only thing that is going to help you feel any better about this situation.

Good luck with the move!

Why Ireland?

Why not Portugal? Belgium? Germany?

Because anyone British is entitled to live/retire/work in Ireland with full access to services. Not so with any other country in the world.

We don't speak the languages. My son is non verbal and only just communicates in English. I am not about to put more barriers in his way. I have every chance of being able to build up business in Ireland and reduce my financial dependency on working in Britain, but that only applies to being somewhere where they speak English ie Ireland. And whatever happens with bloody Brexit, if we are resident in Ireland for five years we get our EU citizenship back.

And what Apileof said...

OP how are you finding the search for schools in Ireland? My friend has a non verbal DS. He understands two languages though.

Thanks for asking! DH has met with the principals of four special schools, we have narrowed it down to the two in a specific town, and he and DS are flying back there on Monday next week to get the necessary ed psych assessment done to determine which school is right for him. There are places available in both schools (because we didn't even consider Dublin, where special school places are, I believe, very hard to get, we have very likely managed to arrange things for him to start school there in September). The schools have been so helpful, even pointed us to an ed psych who was able to offer an assessment at such short notice. So, fingers crossed!

I think it is crazy to plan to retire somewhere you've never been.

I also think your reply if no financial planning on her side is a different conversation

@ScreamingLadySutch

Your posts are utterly horrible. I don't agree with your points anyway, but you could have made them respectfully.

I don't see any evidence in OP's posts of 'rage' or 'nastiness'

I just want to express my appreciation to everyone who bothered to read and comment on this thread. Whether negative or positive, critical or encouraging, the discussion has really helped me process some family stuff as well as develop some extra perspectives on the move/retirement.

Someone suggested that I take the emotion/judgement out of the money I give my parents and simply see it as a form of tax, which just has to be paid. That is such good advice. A tax I pay for being the eldest and most (financially) successful sibling, who had advantages in childhood simply because of being the eldest (especially because most of my education occurred before my parents' fortunes declined, so I got more, and better, education than my siblings for that reason alone). I pay my taxes without comment on the worthiness or otherwise of the government I pay them to (were that not so I would certainly have a lot to say right now!), and I will do the same here.

Thanks everyone.