How much does a man who exploits a vulnerable woman know what he's doing?

[Interestedwoman]

Silly question really I suppose!

I'm still reeling from the impact of my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3800172-Is-it-ok-for-a-lover-to-ask-repeatedly-for-sex-acts-he-knows-you-dont-want

I don't want to reach the conclusions I'm reaching.....

This is a highly qualified therapist (not mine!) at the height of his professional development.

Before we started a sexual relationship I said 'I have bipolar, I've gone into hypomania, and it's effecting my libido.' This was kind of an aside comment. I didn't realise the implications of this myself at the time, I was just ridiculously horny lol (out of character- changes in mood and behaviour.)

He claims that as it's not his exact field, he didn't know what this means in terms of consent etc. He has a PhD in therapy and stuff from a reputable university. Amongst other books, there's a book called 'Psychiatric Diagnoses' on his bookcase , and a copy of the DSM.

I think I'm starting to struggle......

He claims he asked if I was ok with everything we did that summer before we did it (which he did.) I've said 'I don't have any regrets.' He said 'there you are then.' But still

So

1. A bloke who's a therapist and self-confessedly a bit of a narc thought he had such a depth perception of the human will that he could establish consent for individual acts each time from someone, despite them being hypomanic.

or
2) A bloke decides to milk a woman's mental state for all it's worth for several months.

or

3. He's just an innocent bloke, acting like a bloke

or -any other ideas you may have? --

He claims he's not a therapist 24/7, when he's off work he's basically 'just a bloke.' But you don't forget everything you know, do you? :/ This is basic stuff. He'll even have done courses on consent etc, as part of his safeguarding training, he would've been taught that people when in the throes of a hypomanic episode of bipolar or other severe mental illnesses can't consent.

This is like, GCSE psychology or whatever stuff, amirite? Or even, a friend said to me, is well known by a lot of people as it's in popular culture- TV programmes such as Peep Show or Homeland show the effect of bipolar/severe mental health episodes on libido.

'Narcboy' even patronisingly happens to have lent me a basic book on psychology a while back -this is a basic book and stuff about bipolar is in there.

I had a complete wanker of an ex and even he wouldn't do some things at one point because I was hyper! He had no qualifications in it, just general knowledge of mental health and consent.

I need help. Think I'm gonna have to call someone tomorrow- my previous therapist or someone. Not seeing my current one till next Wednesday.

Interestedwoman
Well done for blocking him. I also remember your other thread and like pp I'm really pleased that you're able to see a bit more clearly. It's great that you're putting some boundaries in place. He's not a good person, as a therapist he should have known better.
He's 2)

He's definitely 2. And I'm so pleased to hear you are distancing yourself from him. He's a predator.

Well done on blocking him.

Thanks guys. Should I link him to these threads as a parting shot? :)

God no!

He won't care.
He'll just use it against you.

So don't be daft!

Step away from the laptop! lol

Thank goodness you have blocked.
He sounds awful.

Lol ok! I'll try not to get too pissed tonight and do it.

Apparently, one way of finding out if someone is a narcissist is to ask them. They'll be perfectly comfortable, if not proud, to admit it. They think it's a super power, which, I suppose it is.

Yeah don't, it's all fine us joking but they can be very dangerous! And you can never 'win' against them. The only thing to do is to get as far and fast away from them as possible. Keep him blocked!

Should I link him to these threads as a parting shot?

Goodness no. You don't open the door for a snake.

We really get enough trolling here. Plus he'll no doubt explain to you what man-hating harpies we are, or be so wery wery hurty in the feels that you are so disloyal or something.

The idea of blocking him is good. You need to follow through and not contact him nor give yourself permission to by getting drunk and doing it. Which it sounds like you're planning.

Actually stick to stopping contact for one night. Then tomorrow, one day, and the next, not today either, etc etc.

It’s 2 OP, I’m sorry. I sympathise with you, I really do, it’s awful realising someone has taken advantage of you because it brings you face to face with your vulnerabilities, and that really isn’t a nice place to be, but it really is 2.

The good thing is however that you’re seeing it, and when you see it you can start to understand it, and when you start to understand it you can start to learn to protect yourself better from it.

Knowledge really is power in this case, and a lack of knowledge makes you even more vulnerable.

Should I link him to these threads as a parting shot?

I know you're (sort of) joking, but that would still be you attempting to get him to understand/acknowledge his behaviour - in a way, it's you asking him to agree to you ending the relationship.

I understand the strong urge to justify yourself - you think if he reads this thread, he'll be forced to admit what he did, acknowledge that you are the victim and that you are justified in never seeing him again, but he is never going to do that. All it would do is possibly give him feedback on how to hone his manipulation with the next vulnerable woman he tries it with.

Yep he already hates Mumsnet from stuff I told him I've learned about coercive control and explosive anger from men etc. He calls it Manhating-Net or something, which is lame.

Do you think I should report this guy to the police? I'm not expecting it to go anywhere, but it could at least to some extent be on file about him. Apparently I can't complaint to the BACP as he wasn't my therapist, and they don't deal with 'personal matters.'

Just RTFT OP. I’m so glad you’ve blocked him. He really does sound predatory. I read your last thread too.

Please don’t show him this thread. I promise you no good will come of it. You can present all the evidence in the world of people like him acting like shits and they’ll still turn it back round on you. You really can’t win, so the only solution is not to try, but just to do what you have done and block and stay as far away from them as possible.

He calls it Manhating-Net

I just bet he does. Women talking amongst themselves, supporting each other, recognizing shitty behaviour from men... all without men being able to control the conversation. That must just niggle at him.

My DH, who is a great bloke, loves MN. He even asks, 'what does MN say?' about world events. Because he understands that intelligent women talking together might have some good points.

He even said the other day when I was telling him what I thought of his behaviour, 'I feel like I've lost you to Mumsnet.' He's not entirely wrong, really.

@MrsTerryPratchett Your husband sounds lovely. My friend 'Fred' just used to find my enjoyment of Mumsnet funny at first, the way I 'enjoyed' some of the dramatic 'stories' etc. (Guilty as charged ) But now he's seen the advice you all gave me in the previous thread, he's a serious fan, he thinks I should file that for future reference.

I had an ex FWB - privileged upbringing, highly qualified, great job but had zero empathy to perform this job well. He also had a high sex drive and would push me to do more extreme things. He liked to dominate me and at the time I was vulnerable. I left the relationship and he has gone on to be not particularly successful in his career. He has had a series of relationships and tends to contact me when each one fails. When I last heard from him - he had a child and his partner wanted to leave him. I saw him when I was out a few weeks ago and he was pushing his partner in a wheelchair.
He made me realise what I need in a relationship - and I'm with a kind, gentle, caring man and we have two beautiful children.

You'll be doing any potential children and society a favour if you stand up to this crap and choose to have a relationship with someone who is deserving of your sensitivity and love.

In the end it doesn’t matter why he did it or how aware he was of his motives. If you keep trying to work that out you’re still focussed on him. What matters is the effect his behaviour had on you. Focus on you for a bit, try to work out what you want and what your boundaries are. That’s the best way to recover and find something good out of this. I’m glad you’ve blocked him.

He knows exactly what he is doing.

It is extremely hard for women to wrap their heads round the fact that this cruelty is purposeful and intentional. That there really exists an alarming number of men who hate women and see them as objects to be manipulated for their personal gratification; and that SADISM is part of that pleasure.

Men KNOW that they are raping, for instance. It is a sociopathic act.

Tell that perverted narcissistic fucker that Mumsnet are on to him, we see him and we don't like him.

And that if we knew his identity? His professional life would get very uncomfortable. (And I mean that)

@Interestedwoman connect him to this thread?

See, here is the other thing that abused people can't quite get their head round, and it is the collolary of 'he knows what he is doing'"

And this is the idea that 'if we could only get them to see' .... in other words, it is lack of insight that personality disordered people have. Unqualified oblivious therapists fall for this as well.

"Oh my goodness, I HAD NO IDEA that imposing my sexual jollies on Interested and guilt tripping her and wearing her down is disrespectful and exploitative!!!!!!! NOW THAT I UNDERSTAND ... I will never do it again!"

Bollocks. Dr George Simon described this very well. He calls it 'It isn't that they don't see, its that they disagree'

Disagree that the rules of decent behaviour apply to them.
Disagree that they need to care about other people.
Disagree that it should be all about them.
Disagree that other people have needs
Disagree that what they want should not trump all other things including the law/human rights/basic human decency.

THEY KNOW - and they don't care.

Personality disorder is about gratification through interpersonal exploitation.
That is why he must be out of your life and why MN doesn't like him.

"But first you must divest yourself of many popularly held but erroneous beliefs about human nature. Not everyone is struggling with fears and insecurities. Some people actually aren’t “hung up” enough about the things they do. And not everyone who puts on an air of confidence or superiority is compensating for low self-esteem. There really are people who sincerely think they’re all that and are therefore entitled to do as they please regardless of the consequences! People reveal their true character mainly in their core beliefs — which are reflected not in what they say, but in their actions.

Top CD attitude red flags: Entitlement, possessiveness, indifference to others, arrogance, disdain for obligation. The more of these attitudes they possess and the more intense these attributes are, the more character impaired the person is."

www.chumplady.com/2013/04/divorcing-the-disordered-an-interview-with-dr-george-simon/

He knows, but doesn't think it's that big a deal because it benefits him.

It's like 'I want it more than she shouldn't have it, so that's ok' . Like, she doesn't really want it, but I really really really want it, so that's more important.
Maths that's always in his favour.

OP, you said:

”I want to see some sort of therapist and them to say to me effectively, 'yes, you're right, bloke's a cunt”.

I’m not a therapist but I can confidently tell you that you're right, the bloke is a cunt. Good luck and well done for blocking him.