DP secret debt!

[RubyandMax]

Background: DP & I are unmarried, we've been together 12 years and have three children primary/preschool age.
We're both fairly low earners - DP is employed and earns about £20k and I have been self-employed for the last couple of years and am on track to make about £25k this year.
We rent a 3 bed house privately and would be unlikely to be able to be able to afford to buy a 3/4 bed house locally, though I have a Help to Buy ISA just in my name worth about £18k.
We have a joint bank account and personal accounts but (as far as I was aware!) all our money is joint/pooled.

So, getting to the point - I noticed recently DP had been secretive about banking on his phone. I pressed him about it and he admitted he had an overdraft on his personal account of about £1000. I was upset, but told him I had £1000 put aside for tax and we could use that to pay off the overdraft.

We are (I thought) pretty much debt free (a couple of hundred on store cards that we are quickly paying off) - this is important as some shared ownership houses are being built at the moment in our town and we should be in a very good position to buy one with a 50-75% share. This is the closest we have ever been to buying a house and it is something I have been working hard towards.

Anyway, so as we are discussing the overdraft I ask to look through DP's internet banking so we can work out why he has been overspending and look at a budget together. At this point he is forced to admit he actually has £8k debt! This is a huge, huge amount for us

I just feel so, so devastated, betrayed and lied to. I don't know where to go from here - whether I should try to help him fix it. Honestly I feel like just walking away at the moment and protecting my money and letting him sort it (or not) himself.

I'm just totally lost on how to move forward and would welcome any advice from people who have been here.

What do you get out of this relationship now?
We get on well and enjoy each other's company, and rarely argue.
We have a good and varied sex life.
He's very supportive of me in terms of facilitating my ambitions, for instance I did an OU degree, I started my own business and he stepped up with childcare.
He's a fairly equal partner in terms of housework.
He's a very good and involved father.
We co-parent and 'run' the house/family together very well.
So, I do get a lot out of the relationship and I do love him, a lot. But, the trust has really been damaged at the moment and I feel like I am just waiting now for the next big reveal. Especially as everything that has come out recently has essentially been him being caught out, rather than choosing to admit things.

I'm thinking of saying I will pay off his overdraft, but on the agreement that he pays his whole salary into the joint account and I will set up a direct debit paying off the loan £500 a month.

He needs to start seriously applying for new jobs. I want him to actually apply for everything he could feasibly do in the £20-30k pay band.

I'm also going to ask him to get a second job for the evenings/weekends to pay the loan off quicker.

Does that all sound reasonable?

No. Do not pay off his overdraft. Enabling him like this will not help him or you and such behaviour as well only you a false sense of control. Why should you at all do this, this also takes money away pay from your own self and for that matter your children too.

You need to ask him why he's unable to simply say that he's broke. When you ask about school issues like the trip he needs to own up that you simply can't afford it. Sounds like he doesn't want to appear unable to support you. Let him know you'd rather go without than build up debt.

I would argue he is neither a good and involved father to his children if he treats you like he has done and continues to do. Stop finding solutions to his problems as well, this debt mess he is in is down to him and he alone. Again you are taking on responsibility for his debt and are also choosing to believe him re these other women.

I would also think you rarely argue because you two really have nothing to say to each other. Trust as well is nigh on impossible to get back once it has been lost and this is not the first time either you have seen debt and other women he has been contacting. With you he has his cake and eats it too.

Don't use your money to pay his debt. He can get a second job and a better paid first job and pay it himself.

This is important, if you pay it off, he'll do it again.

He's a liar. What if you pay his debt and he immediately fucks off with the affair partner?

He said a month or so ago he was going to look for new job that pays better, but has he applied for anything yet? No, hasn't seen the right one yet

I was on the fence until you said this. I think the more you earn the more he would spend trying to look like he had more money too, yet he won't make the effort to go out and better himself.

On no account help him with this financially. And I would draw back at the very least and keep my money after shared bills separate. Until he pays that off don't go near buying a house with him.

@BigFatLiar that's what I really don't understand and something he hasn't been able to explain! Something like the trip money, if he had just said he didn't have it either we could have asked Cubs if we could pay later/in installments, or cut back on something else, or asked grandparents if they would lend it to us. It wasn't anything vital or even that important

It seems like it's some kind of a pride thing about looking like he can provide, but coupled with no actual move to find a better job/second job.

However he does have form for lying, especially recently - over the last 6 months we have had issues with him having an inappropriately close friendship with a female colleague (although he has promised nothing physical has happened and I chose to believe that). Actually the discussion about him finding a new job arose as he couldn't seem to stop messaging her if they continue working together.

Get rid!

Oh and he's not a very good dad, very good dads don't fuck with their families in this way and risk their family life for either debt or other women!

Do not use your/your DCs savings to pay his debt...you are only enabling his behaviour and giving him permission to continue with it.

I know you are all right about not using my money to pay for it. Should I let him pay less into the joint account so he can pay more off the loan though? £750 rather than £1000?

I still want to go ahead with buying a shared ownership house on my own if possible though, I think I can still do it (though a smaller share). I guess in the future if he sorts himself out he can contribute to buying another share.

No to this either. He can pay the same as he does now.

What exactly has he done here himself to address his debt?. This is not down to you either to sort out for him. He is still really not taking any responsibility for his actions is he whilst you are still scrabbling around trying to help him. You do need to ask yourself why you are doing this at all .

It’s his debt, his ultimate responsibility to sort it out otherwise it will further increase also because of interest owed.

I would walk away now, if you tie your finances to his you will be further dragged down with him

So would I. It’s not even the money it’s the concealing. If he can keep this secret then he certainly has other things he’s finding easier to keep secret (affairs, drugs, maybe even another family)

It sounds like you all need a joint budget then you would know when there isn't money for a child's activity without putting him on the spot of asking him to pay for it. His pride, or whatever, prevents him from saying No. Your combine income to me, just superficially looking at it, doesn't seem like it would allow for a lot of extras, just in general. I would have been asking myself, How are we able to afford these things?

I would re-pay some of the debt for him as far as it represents expenses for the children.

Hi I have been in your shoes and stayed and helped repay it but I regret paying it off I cannot fathom how he spent more than I earned with nothing to show for it and I’ve thought another kid, blackmailed. Gambling other women but no proof of anything so kept the family together but trust will never come back. If u decide to stay get him to pay all wages into joint account then give him so much back to repay it take control of the spending it’s ok for others to say leave but it’s your family not theirs good luck x

Is he a very easy going person OP, I’ve been on the other side of this and at one point I was conflict avoidant, never liked to say ‘we couldn’t afford that weekend away’ etc, we were very decent earners but have very high rent etc. I sort of went along with/did stuff to keep the peace. It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a bad person (although the flirting around with another woman isn’t great) I suspect itsexactly as you say, he wants to make life seem good. However I think you should now take control but the debt remains his to sort and he needs to step up, if he wants the good life, he can’t pootle along , he ups his game.

Does he take this woman out for lunch everyday, is this where money is going?

Should I let him pay less into the joint account so he can pay more off the loan though?

No. That's still you paying it off!

@OldWomanSaysThis I know what our budget is, we spend about £2200-£2500 every month all in (rent, bills, council tax, shopping, insurances, TV, phones/internet, kids' activities). I put in £1500 and he puts in £1000, plus we get almost £200 child benefit. Usually there is then money left in the joint account for things like children's shoes, school trips, meals out/takeaways.
We are also both left with about £300 a month in our own accounts for our own spending. So, I didn't see any reason not to be able to afford it. Some months we spent everything but usually (from my perspective) there was a little left in both my personal account and the joint account most months.
Of course I now realise that most of his £300 was going on debt repayments and overdraft interest and he was borrowing more to afford meals out and petrol.

@user1479305498 yes, he is very conflict avoidant and a people pleaser.

@NoMilk I have certainly wondered if it is partly that, wanting to seem able to buy drinks and things.

You can't trust him fully to be faithful, he lies and he's bad with money.

Don't marry him. Buy on your own.

Take him with you if you must, but don't pay off his debts and don't entwine finances or property.

Get him to go on martins money tips website and see if there is a 0% Apr card he can go onto instead of whatever percent he is paying just now. That will reduce a big wadge of interest. I don’t know what the monthly repayments would be if the number of months is the max that’s offered, but if it’s doable that would be my advice. It may take a few years but then he will be debt free. And he should cancel his overdraft facility and any other credit cards so he’s not tempted.

If you pay off his loan then he will lie in the future if you ask him to pay for something like a cubs trip and secretly overdraw again as he won’t want you to know. Better to leave the debit in his name as lenders may think twice about lending more if his credit history shows he still owes lots?

You say you want him to get a better paying job. Does he have qualifications to be able to do this?

Hi OP
Ex shared ownership person here.
DO NOT go into shared ownership with this man. Firstly, he wont get a mortgage for a while now anyway, his credit will be terrible.

Firstly, with shared ownership you do not get to choose how many shares you buy, you are told by the housing association, and itll be the most you could possibly afford. As a 'single mum' you would be higher priority and could buy a smaller share.
Shared ownership is tough to sell if it goes wrong with your partner, also there are lots of extra fees and constraints.

Secondly, you should protect your own money and roof over your head and buy it on your own to protect yourself. He can move in, if you want him to, but for the love of god women do not enable him further then sign 50% on a mortgage with him.

I bought a shared ownership place 2 years ago, i bought the housing association out a few months ago and now own it outright. Can sell it when and how i want and to who, without their input etc.
Something i never thought possible in my life and i did it on my own with no help from anyone, except a very forgiving building society mortgage.
My DP is not on the paperwork anywhere, its mine. This is 2020, do it for you!