Empathy at menopausal age?

[Adlibadli]

I hope I don't offend here, but I have noticed something in some women of menopausal age that is bothering me.
Do you lose all sense of empathy?
My own mother completely changed when she became of menopausal age; she went from a loving, caring woman to being as cold as ice and unable to relate to others struggles. When a local girl was murdered, she said "I don't see why everyone is so upset,it's not like they even bloody knew her."
Stuff like this.
When I had my children, she had no ability to empathise with sleep depreivation or anything really, she would say "yeah,I'm tired too. "
Yet as a mother when I was younger, she was extremely loving and compassionate. My MIL is exactly the same.
When I was diagnosed with a chronic auto-immune health condition recently, she barely acknowledged it and wittered on about herself and her own ailments. Infact, she never stops talking about herself. Apparently, she hasn't always been this way. I've seen it in supermarkets when cashiers of menopausal age complain about customers, ome recently complained that customers were making her ill and spreading their germs around whilst sneezing all over my shopping.
My female boss completely changed when she reached her late forties and seemed completely unable to relate to her staff anymore having always been so supportive. Is this actually a thing? Or am I imagining it?
My own Gran picked up a gambling habit at menopausal age and my grandparents had to remortgage the house. It lasted 8 years and she hasn't had a gambling habit since. She's in her late 80s now and very empathetic.
Is there something that happens to our empathy when we reach a particular age? I'm worried I'll forget how to empathise with my daughters as I age!

I can't speak for others but I believe I am in Peri menopause and I have noticed that I have little tolerance and rationality these days and I really no longer give a shit.

Though I'm not heartless and still have empathy in most situations.

Oh yes! Because it is hell for some, he'll in a way that you can't really comprehend untill you are experiencing it yourself.

The explosion of hormones really turns to back into a teenager, a person focus on your own self, confused, scared, sad, and depressed. Add to this the lack of sleep for many, which doesn't go on for weeks but months and years for many, and the fact that although people are sympathetic with young mother, menopausal women are just considered attention seekers, it really doesn't help.

My OH told me that I was always miserable and it was hard to be around me. It hurt me like a knife, because all I wanted from him was understanding, but once I started to feel a bit better, I could understand how indeed, it must have been really hard to live with me.

The fact remains that when you don't sleep well night after night after night, regardless of what you do, and you then have anxiety that flushes through you, when you don't even have reasons to be anxious, when you feel sick, lightheaded, when you can't concentrate on the simple tasks, you do feel very sorry for yourself.

All I can say is however miserable your mum is, be patient with her because it really is a dreadful stage in a woman's life for many. I wish I'd been more sympathetic towards my mum when she went through it, but it is hard to be so when you don't really know what it is like.

I do not give one fuck anymore. I think it could come across as being uncaring, but I only hate wittering nonsense. I still care massively about real issues.

I don't know because I'm not there, however, something just popped to mind. I've heard it said that when women are "cranky" [insert any similar word] when they have their periods it's actually because they just don't tolerate the shit they normally put up with. And because that's generally playing the social role of being nice to/about people, they're seen as being a bit unkind or "hormonal".

Perhaps what happens during menopause is that as hormones reduce to those of men's (but also pretty uncomfortable symptoms on the way with NO sympathy towards them, while they're STILL expected to be empathic) that those extra expectations men don't have, get dropped because at a systemic, perhaps unconscious level (like during periods) they're just not important.

It might depend on her child rearing days. I had no relatives around when rearing my DCs, so no handy babysitters or child minders. Hence I go to great lengths to help my DDs as I know how exhausting it can be.

I'm not sure it's just the menopause. I came to a point when I realised the men in my life lived the life of Reilly, being waited on and looked after. The worm turned and I would have appeared to lose a lot of empathy, however I had really just adopted the 'empathy' or lack of it in the other family members.

It’s that lack of sleep thing! At least with a child keeping you up you have the solace of a cuddle and something positive coming out of it, you hope. But menopause lack of sleep is awful, and frankly given very little sympathy. Even Drs assume I’m on HRT for hot flushes. I’ve never had one of those! But I am knackered, irritated and nobody really gives a whatsit.

So. I don’t think we lack empathy. We are just very tired, confused and often sad and miserable, and we are talked about as if we are “mad” which is a distinct hangover from all that “hysteria” nonsense back in history. And people seem unable to be sympathetic to us. As above, perhaps you only realise what a thing it can be when you go through it yourself.

One only realises misogyny is live and kicking at the menopause. The view of sisterhood does change rather.

Also, enough of the ridiculous misogynistic language.

I'm more assertive in ensuring that my needs are taken care of and my views known, but I wasn't bad at it before. My life is completely different anyway because of separation, this of course also affects me. I'm certainly no doormat

I think it depends on the individual. I have become more empathetic, perhaps because my menopause was precipitated by breast cancer. It gave me a different perspective on life and in particular the struggles other people might be going through. I’m actually a kinder person now (I’m at the peak of menopause at the moment). That’s not to say I don’t have very frustrating days when I’m quite snappy but that’s related to anxiety, menopause can cause anxiety in a lot of women. Oh and the exhaustion feels very debilitating at times.

But yes my own mum became quite nasty and very distant to me during her menopause. I was still a young child , about 10 years old when she started. It ruined our relationship for a long time and my teen years were hell because of her state of mind.
She became a much nicer person in her elderly years.

I think my willingness to indulge nonsense from others has diminished as I've got older - whether that's directly linked to being post-menopause or just a result of experience, I wouldn't like to say.

When a local girl was murdered, she said "I don't see why everyone is so upset,it's not like they even bloody knew her."

If the 'everyone' involved was people who didn't know the girl but were putting self-indulgent 'I'm heartbroken' sort of posts on social media, I can see where your mum was coming from. I have very little tolerance for grief-tourism now. It's normal to be saddened by a tragic death, and to feel sorry for the bereaved family, but when people not directly involved start making it all about themselves, that's worse in my opinion than ignoring it.

I think you might be right. I’m peri and I really don’t have the inclination to care like I used to. I really care about those close to me and where it matters ( my job requires me to care a lot about vulnerable people) but beyond that I don’t really have the capacity anymore

Yup, it's an amazingly liberating experience - I've found most of my "people pleasing" instincts have evaporated and I no longer give a shit. As a pp said, I suspect this is how men feel most of the time, but they don't get criticised about it.

I'm still nice to family and friends, I still try to help out with charity, it's just lost its unhealthy edge of self abnegation. I view this as a good thing. (Oh, and your mum probably is knackered - the insomnia associated with menopause can be brutal. For me it was actually worse than when DS was a baby.)

I definitely feel myself to be less empathetic now I’m menopausal. I’ve never been a person to be hugely emotional, but now I’m pretty much shut down

I have reached a point where I no longer suffer fools gladly having gritted my teeth and smiled for most of my life. I am no longer such a people pleaser.

I still feel very passionate and empathetic about many things, but because they matter to ME.

It could be menopause related, I suppose, but am on HRT which works.

Your post seems sexist and ageist. Have you scrutinised younger people older men in the same way? I know plenty of people of both sexes and various ages who do the things you mention.

The specific example of the supermarket cashier’s complaint: she had a point! Why attribute her expressing annoyance to her being (in your view) of menopausal age and therefore less “empathetic”?

With regard to the change in your DM and MiL, my parents have changed a lot over time. Think this is due to factors like difficult/sad life events, long term ill health, chronic pain and sleep deprivation.

Yes, I think you're right OP and I've certainly noticed it. I've had some horrible customer service from women in their 50s who just seem to hate the entire world! My DM was dreadful from her late 40s to mid 50s and while I get what some posters are saying about 'It's really hard because no one is sympathetic', I think it's hard to take a kindly attitude to someone who is just being fucking horrible to you! If my DM had talked about how she was feeling and explained to me and the rest of the family that she was going through a really tough time with not sleeping and experiencing hot flushes and brain fog, etc, then I think we'd have all tried to accommodate her much more. As it was, she was just foul to everyone. She had a fuse about 1mm long, she yelled and screamed and never apologised later and it was horrible for everyone else.

I'm smack bang in the middle of the menopause and it's hell!

I've had three hours sleep. I've been up pacing the floor absolutely filled with anxiety, hot flushes so bad that it feels like I'm being blown with a hot hair drier. My menopause has triggered a chronic auto immune disease so I'm also in pain.
I'm losing my hair, my memory is crap, foggy head and at a time in my life where I could have the physical relationship I've always wanted with my other half....things are well ...drying up 🤷‍♂️.

I'm frustrated and sad.

I wish I'd had female relatives talk to me about all this. I certainly talk to my daughters about it so they know what to expect, but I honestly didn't have a clue really.

Emotionally I have very little f*cks to give about most things. My patience is short and I'm quite abrupt. I am working on this.

Let's have some empathy for the menopausal woman who may be seriously sleep deprived made worse by the night sweats, brain fog, aching painful joints, struggling with mental symptoms often mistaken by doctors as depression.

Like why should they show you any empathy when you clearly have got none

I think my priorities have shifted. I do a lot of voluntary work with extremely vulnerable people, which has opened my eyes to the awful things humans do to each other.
I respect myself after a lifetime of self pity largely due to a neglected and cold childhood.
I am more at peace now at 51 than I have ever been in my life, I feel safe and calm. There is hope

I do get a lot of hot flushes though!
And never enough sleep.

I completely lost my tolerance for casual ageism, unpleasant and inaccurate gender stereotypes and the gratuitous stoking up of intergenerational strife.

Otherwise, I'm much the same.

So regularly flabbergasted by the nastiness towards some women on MN, where casual ageism is unfortunately common

What empathy are you showing for menopausal women, OP?

Am guessing you haven't gone through it yourself yet?

I've entered menopause now and find I have MORE empathy - I end up crying floods of tears over news stories about mistreated children, or TV programmes about animals being rescued.

However if I think someone's taking the piss or being rude, I have no hesitation in calling them out and couldn't give a tin shit if they or anyone else thinks I'm a bitch.

Well I am probably peri at the minute and I don't know if its that or age, but I don't stand for any bull like I used to. You get to a point when you are just fed up thinking about everyone else,(like you have been your whole life) and suddenly think well what about me!!! By the way peri is crap I hate to think what full menopausal holds. Its real shit!!!

I underwent a radical hysterectomy at 50...if anything I feel my emotional intelligence for real issues has enhanced, my tolerance for anything else has totally deteriorated. I find unless there is a direct impact on me/DH/DS I'm genuinely not interested in hearing or reading about other people problems