How do I respond to this? DH gone off

[Perrinelli81]

Dh has been in a bit of a foul mood all day. He does have quite a lot of stress in his life, for context but nothing particularly out of the ordinary this weekend that I know of.
I heard him earlier huffing and puffing about the mess downstairs in the other room.
We have 3 dcs and the 4yo in particular is a bit of a destroyer. I also am not the tidiest and tend to do a blitz every so often rather than picking up stuff every night. The house is a bit messy in places but it’s generally toys from having a good play and not as bad as it is sometimes.

DH had to go out to a rehearsal thing earlier. On his way out he said something like “right I’m going now. Let me know if the mess gets tidied up otherwise I’ll see you tomorrow”. I didn’t really answer. (When he pulls these sort of sulks I tend to go grey rock or whatever the phrase is out of self preservation)

Anyway my first thought was defiance and why should it tidy up - I’ve been busy out at dcs activities today, he’s had more time At home than me and it’s general mess from our shared dcs.

But then I thought it does need doing so I just got the kids to do it with me.

Can see on our app thing that he’s finished his rehearsal, don’t think he’s at a friends or a hotel, looks like he’s just sat in the car somewhere!

Have WhatsApp’d that the kids are asking where he is. That I appreciate the mess was getting him down but that wasn’t the way to go about it, that we have started tidying but it’s not perfect.

He hasn’t seen the WhatsApp yet, or hasn’t opened the message.

How should I respond? Do I call/text to try and get him to come home for the sake of peace and the kids? Or do I leave him to stew, all night if it comes to it?

It's an outlet for all the other stresses in our lives

An outlet for stress shouldn’t involve a blow out at another person!

@Dollywilde

Why are you still being so reasonable about this man to OP? You are still trying to justify that it’s ok to sulk in your car over mess created by your children!?!

They both work
They both have 3 kids
He was home all day and didn’t do anything
OP cleans all day on a Friday - he does barely anything, ever
He walks away and sulks whenever OP isn’t doing what he wants her to do

None of this is ok

Why would you stay because “it’s not terrible but bad”..?

What is this teaching your girls?

It’s teaching them that’s okay to sulk, that men swan around doing nothing in the home and then have the right to criticise their wife because over so called mess.

He’s a controlling arse.

Leave and you’ll find that life is lighter and your DC will know what a strong women you are.

There is a thread called “divorcing sulking DH” have a read of all her threads about her STBXDH

Sounds like you need a sulk over how little he does to contribute to family life

Only you’re an adult so sit him down and explain you’re not going to sulk but suggest that he starts doing
Everyone’s laundry, tidied up at least one room a week, does bath time every Saturday to bond with his D.C., cooks at least one meal

You both work, you both have children, you are doing 90% of the chores whilst he is letting you do his 40% he needs to pull his finger out at home, as a parent & as a team player

@Menora ‘still’? Not sure if it’s another poster you’re confusing me with - that was my first post on the thread?

My only point was that - sometimes - taking some time to have a breather by not coming home immediately can be okay. We’re all human and need a break.

I’m saying he’s allowed to be annoyed at the fact it’s untidy. I’m also saying the fact he holds Op responsible is unacceptable, that the communication problem is entirely his fault, that he should be working as a team with her to tackle it and should take her request for marriage counselling seriously. I don’t think I’m giving him an easy ride?

Agree. Needing time out isn’t emotional abuse ffs

Still - after she’s posted and update that confirms he’s is a sulking man baby who opts out of most of the hard graft, leaving it to OP... but it’s still ok to sulk in your car? Would you really think you justified a ‘breather’ from the mess you walked away from at home that your own DC created that you never help clear up? This is breathtaking behaviour

I’m also saying the fact he holds Op responsible is unacceptable,

That’s the part that OP needs to seriously address with him, it’s as much his responsibility to tidy up. It’s not her job it’s both their jobs

Probably his mother did it and his father didn’t, but surely op doesn’t want her daughters being ingrained with the same stereotype thoughts that they should clean up and men are the boss of wives

Needing time out isn’t emotional abuse ffs

If only he had asked for that.

My questions would be (a) why does he get time out whilst expecting the OP to take the mammoth share of parenting and household tasks and (b) when does the OP get time out.

Foul mood all day
Huffing and puffing
Threatened not to come home if the house was still messy
Came home and OP had cleared up and is STILL SULKING

Yeah sounds totally normal and like he’s just having ‘time out’

He honestly isn’t all bad but has these moments where he can be very cold, and a little bit cruel

This struck me as living with a cruel person impacts you even if it isn't often because you know that they are capable and as a result you are on edge. You mention negative physical feelings which is your body telling you that you are experiencing stress overload. Continued stress will lead to physical health issues.

You mention the switch between baby 1 and 3..did his career take off around this time? Often the switch is due to a power imbalance and this is seen in his language and actions towards you. You are not a team as in his eyes you are below him. You haven't caused him to feel this way as it's mostly programmed in childhood by a controlling parent and it leads to very low emotional intelligence. His can't empathise with you because his "pain" is too overwhelming. Rather than deal with his emotions he attempts to control the environment so he doesn't have to deal with them.

It leads him to believe he has the right to express his anger at you.. (and for those people that do sulk it is abusive and the onerous is on you to learn to process your negative feelings in a healthy way). Try CBT

Please prioritise counselling for you as you need to have your emotions validated.

I think you sound like a super woman, 3 children, almost full time job and zero help from a critical husband. Well done you.

Btw, I don't think he will change, if anything his critical nature will be increase as the children get older and he will react with more control as you and the children appear to be closer and act as one unit.

Dolly

Abuse though is not about communication or a perceived lack thereof; its about power and control. He runs his life as he wants it with Mrs P and her kids acting accordingly around him; their lord and master. He will never go to counselling (no surprise there; many such entitled men refuse to go because they see nothing wrong in their behaviours). Perrinelli's earlier comments in quote marks here below shows this quite clearly.

Hi Perrinelli

I often ask this and I will ask you the same question:-
"What do you get out of this relationship now?"

You wrote these comments earlier on:-
"I know it’s not great, but as usual I find myself asking myself again is it bad enough to disrupt everything and change my children’s lives?"

Having read all your thread and the replies, well yes it is. Its bad for you and in turn your kids. What do you want to teach them about relationships and what are they learning here from you two?. What you write of here re life in your house is appallingly bad. He does very little and you write that he does the DIY or fills the dishwasher as if it is a good thing, that shows me also just how low your relationship bar now is. He is already teaching your kids crap lessons about relationships here, as are you. Abuse like this and it is abuse, creeps up on people unawares and is truly insidious in its onset.

(And on a far wider note why are you blitzing the house prior to the cleaner arriving?.) You seem to me to be very much "nice", compliant and perhaps also a people pleaser type person.

Re your comment:-
"And I have asked about marriage counselling before - the answer was no, that I should go myself if I feel the need for it"

What a guy!. Would urge you to find a counsellor to work with. Such entitled men are only working for one "team" here; "team Him and Him Alone". He has trained you well here to serve him, he is truly a nasty and bullying piece of work who has not changed in all the years you have known him and will not change. Look at his parents OP; it is likely that one of his parents acts like this towards the other. He has you well dancing to his tune and in turn your children will pick up on all this and absorb it if they have not started to already do so. This is NO legacy to leave them.

What did you yourself learn about relationships when you were growing up?. Did your dad treat your mum like you are being treated now?.

Last time (few months ago) we were able to talk about it a bit afterwards and I said how it made me feel, but he just said in that moment when he feels angry/upset he can’t think about how it makes me feel

Then he needs to go to counselling to work out more productive ways of dealing with being angry. All that time he spends sulking, he could actually spend helping with HIS children.

Your children will grow up thinking it's normal to be treated like this.that it's normal to be abused and controlled. Seeing how he treats you and thinking it's their fault because they have no other way to make sense of it. Changing their lives in those circumstances would be positive, albeit scary and difficult at first.

This is not about him being a monster or the most extreme abuser who's ever walked the face of the earth.It's about his pattern of behaviour, which fits within coercive control. He doesn't have to be the most abusive case for it to be bad enough to put a stop to.

He knows what he's doing. It's not accidental.

The Freedom Programme course might help you figure out what's normal again. It teaches about healthy vs abusive relationships, as well as the impact of the latter on you and the children. They won't tell you to leave, they'll just give you information. What you do with it is up to you.

The fact you struggle to work out what's normal, are afraid to stand up for yourself, feel responsible for his poor behaviour, and describe yourself as hard to live with despite working almost a full week and doing all childcare alone and basically all housework alone is very telling. It's what happens when someone has been subjected to coercive control for a long period of time.

Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

He has already told the OP that he does not want to go to counselling (no surprise there).

He does not have a problem with anger, he has a problem with OPs anger when she rightly calls him out on his unreasonable behaviours.

I also think this man acts like he is all sweetness and light to those in the outside world and comes across as quite plausible to same. Image is all important to such selfish and self absorbed individuals.

He sounds like a selfish prick tbh. Somehow the DC are your "job" I think you will be happier without a sulking manchild in your life!!

On a practical note perhaps your DC have too much "stuff"?

Needing time out isn’t emotional abuse ffs

Time out communicated isn't abusive but making conditional demands and sulking is. Time outs are time boxed, communicated and productive I.e I need some quiet time for an hour - which results in more balanced emotions afterwards.

Emotional intelligence is critical in conflict resolution and often those that sulk just can't process their emotions effectively and as in this case, leads to empathy for the other person being switched off. Recent research shows that empathy can switch on/off by choice so he is not powerless over his emotions.

My husband generally gives me a decent lie in on the weekend (I let him have one too but hes an early riser and often just gets up anyway). When I come downstairs a couple of hours after the kids have got up, it's a bombsite seems like every single toy and book is out and on the floor, breakfast stuff out etc etc. But I dont mind because its him giving up his time in bed to look after them, and also I know how difficult it is to get any meal done for them and cleared up etc (I was on my own last night and they were literally getting toys out faster than I was clearing them plus cooking plus nappy changing and picking up ill toddler etc).

In my opinion, he should actually be grateful that you can look after the kids from when you finish work til 8.30 (essentially most of the evening) so that he can work when he needs to.

Even though you work, and evening childcare is your responsibility, he also expects to come home to a pristine house?

You say you've tried to talk to him and he wont change...I think its time for an ultimatum if you can mean it that youd leave, as I dont think it will make much practical difference in your lives by the sound of it, and I dont think your children will ultimately want you to be miserable for the rest of their lives for the sake of seeing slightly more of a miserable dad

You could probably be tidier. Its annoying living with a messy person. But that's not the real issue here.

He is training you to know your place. If he won't listen to your objections, appeals for reasonableness/a fairer balance, requests to respect you and your feelings, then your marriage is dead and nothing will change. You are not and never will be his equal, in his eyes.

Many men seem to make an assumption that because children come from the woman's body that they are mainly her responsibility. Plus, if she SAH or goes part time that the man is generously funding her to enjoy an expensive hobby of being mummy. However, a decent man will listen and adapt when he is pulled up on this. Your husband has no intention of doing so. In fact, he is angry with you for having the gall to challenge him, him being so superior and all.

You work full time? 😮😮😮. In that case the only acceptable response is to do no housework for the next month at least.
Hi dh, your last sulk was the straw that broke the camels back. We both work full time, we both have children , I’m not the fucking house maid and I deserve some respect. The only way we can make any progress here is if you understand how I’ve been feeling so I nominate you chief child wrangler and housekeeping for the next month. I’m not picking up a fucking thing. I don’t do bedtimes. if you don’t like it you can leave. If you even think of sulking at me I will throw your bags out the door after you. If you can experience my life, only a much improved version of my life as you won’t have some asshole who in theory loves you refusing to even talk to you because they are a pathetic man child, for a whole month, then we can talk about our marriage. Remember, the door is always ready to close behind you. Happy to explain to everyone we know what’s going on. Let me know if you’re going to attempt to save our marriage by tonight please. I will also agree to counselling if you ask me.

If he doesn’t come home until 8:30 most evenings and does nothing but sulk and create more work on the weekends then I am afraid in this situation you are just living with your ex-husband in everything but name.

Can you see things changing for the better?
How and for how long would he need to improve his behavior to make it feel like you are in a loving relationship? Can you break it down and be specific in your own mind?
Ask yourself if he is giving any sign of a willingness to do so (change his behavior to make it a loving relationship). If you’re not sure, ask him directly if he’s willing to do this. Listen to the answer.

You asked in the OP what to do about his behavior.
My advice is to prepare yourself mentally and do the Mumsnet “ducks in a row” stuff. Make a promise to yourself to move forward with changing your situation by the end of January one way or another.
Remember you aren’t in control of what he does or how he feels. Just your own actions and reactions.

@timeisnotaline's idea sounds perfect to me!

Is this out of character for him? Tbh he sounds like a whiny jerk. He is just as capable of tidying up.

Thank you everyone for your comments. I have lots to think about.
@AttilaTheMeerkat and others you are spot on with many of your comments and searching questions and I will come back and re read again to absorb it all.

Sometimes in my darker moments I find myself almost wishing he would have an affair or something, then it would be clear cut and his ‘fault’ and no one would blame me for throwing him out.

Ducks in a row - I/we are so lucky that since his parents passed away and we put money into our house I couldn’t stay here but if we sold up there would be enough for us both to get somewhere smaller but doable.
And as you have picked up, I have no fear about coping on my own with the girls since that is basically what I do now.
I would of course worry about how he’d cope with them on his own because his fuse with them can be short at times.

It’s just such a massive thing to think about.
I think people around us have no idea things are not great (or maybe they do?).

Maybe I should make 2020 the year I seek counselling on my own if he won’t come.

He’s gone a bit back to normal today but of course no apology, no mention of yesterday and no tidying up from him!

I’m worried about Christmas and how it will be. A couple of years ago he told me to f* off in front of my family when we were cooking lunch (because I asked something about the timing of the turkey vs the veg, can’t remember exactly) and I was so upset and embarrassed. But last year was better than I thought so fingers crossed.

OP why are you still with him? Make 2020 the year that you leave him. Life will be far less stressful for you and your DC without dealing with being sworn at and manipulated.