Why can’t I forgive my husband?

[CoffeeChocolateWine]

So we’ve had a shit past couple of years. We’ve been together for 15 years and married almost 10 years. Three children. We’ve had a great relationship mainly...a few ups and downs, been through some tough stuff but always stood by each other and came through still smiling.

But two years ago I was pregnant with our third child after a six year gap between kids. She was planned but DH changed his mind way too late into my pregnancy. He became quite unpleasant to me at a time when I needed his support and things got worse after our baby was born. He basically withdrew from family life, rejected our daughter, was vile to me and made me feel like a complete failure of a mother, started drinking too much and went to the pub instead of coming home, threw himself into work and all the networking, conference and social side, basically to avoid coming home, started a friendship with a much younger woman that he hid from me and lied about. He definitely crossed a line with her in my view in terms of texting her at weekends (nothing sexual), emailing her about about non-work stuff and signing off with kisses, inviting her to accompany him to networking events, giving her lifts to conferences and not ever mentioning it to me. He later admitted he fancied her but swears nothing physical happened. I still have niggling doubts about that but he’s now cut her out.

He put everything down to struggling to adapt to baby number three, and needing escapism and an ego boost. We did couples counselling which was helpful and brought us closer together for a while and we’ve been getting along pretty well recently, but things just aren’t the same.

I just feel like something has broken that can’t be fixed. It’s not our whole relationship though, just a part of it, but compared with our previously great relationship it just feels a bit substandard and I feel sad and angry at DH for doing this to what was a really happy family. I really want to forgive him and move on and be happy again, but I just can’t. I’ve seen a side of him thatI despise and have zero respect for and it’s tainted my overall picture of him. I just don’t see him in the same way.

I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to break my family up because of my inability to let go...yes, he was an absolute shit, but this was one period during a 15 year happy relationship where he’s been a fantastic partner and Dad. But at the same time, I don’t know whether I can spend the rest of my life in this slightly weaker but not dreadful marriage knowing that it will never be the same as it was before. Will things ever get better?

at his statements about “putting myself first for once”.

His poor attitude towards your baby was another massive let down.

He’s clearly told and shown you who he is: selfish and unreliable.

I recall the previous posts about this. I don’t know the real ins and outs of your life. But, I think the reason you can’t forgive is because you know he isn’t fully committed to your life. He isn’t the man you need.

From what I recall, although you say the baby was planned, his agreement was half hearted at best. He said he something like, “if it’s what you want”. And it was what you wanted and it made you happy to be a mother again. I can see why you were blindsided. But I don’t think he wanted to do the baby years again. He still doesn’t.

Even now he is pretty much saying the same thing. And it’s a threat to you family. You know it and you know he regrets the decision to have another child. He doesn’t like the regression in your family dynamic. Maybe he has more deep rooted issues with your life. He behaved that way. He should have admitted it when you talked of having another child. Because I think it was there then. Rather than say it he gave you what you wanted out of guilt not love or commitment. He is still doing that.

Basically you can’t forgive him because his foot is still half way out the door. You can’t rely on him or trust him.

@ScreamingLadySutch i feel like you are conflating issues.

ie. he broke something. Accept it.
But you can also accept that he DID feel trapped and pressurised by all his responsibility and all the people dependent on him (as someone else pointed out, amazing how we carry on being the adults) which is why he did what he did.
So accept the disillusionment.

She can accept that he felt trapped and stressed.
She can process this.
But she doesnt have to accept his shitty shitty treatment of her and her child.

Find me a mother who hasn’t felt stressed, overburdened, disillusioned, missed their old life etc at any time, and i will give you my whole salary.

That doesnt give us a free pass to check out.

The rest of your advice about OP building herself up I agree with.

I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to break my family up because of my inability to let go

He has already broken your family, by the choices he made, every single days for 400 days.

It wasn’t a one off. It wasn’t even a 400 off. Now you have seen what he’s really like, his characters , his fundemental selfishness . His sense of entitlement to having his cake and eating it. His view that you are simply a domestic appliance who does all the shit work at home while he goes out and has fun. His opinion that his children are only useful to him when they enhance his life ie make him feel good.

That’s why you can’t “ get over it” . Because, unsurprisingly, you don’t actually like or respect the person he is.

And you don’t like how he thinks of you. You know he doesn’t love you, not real, deep down, selfless love. You know hes keeping you on because you are useful - you enhance his life.

And you know that next time it suits him ( because you are not centring him in everything ) he’ll be off doing it again. He’s not even sorry for what he did - it was all your fault!

That’s why you can’t “ get over it “. Your eyes have been opened to who he is and you can’t unsee it.

It’s not about what he deserves. It’s about you and what you deserve. You deserve better .

He still lies to you, he needs to come clean about the ow.

Until he does this you can not make an informed decision.

He is not sorry,

An apology followed by BUT is never a proper apology.

He does not love you in the selfless sense that is needed from both parties in a marriage.

Once the scales have dropped they can never be put back, you have seen the true being that is him.

I am so sorry,

You say "does he deserve to lose everything?" But that assumes that what you regard as "everything" is the same as what he regards as "everything". He's made it clear that there are other things, experiences and people that he wants and needs, so it's possible that freeing him to have those would enhance his life, rather than spoil it. If you feel that you don't want the same things, don't dream the same dreams, then change the nature of your relationship with him. It might turn out better for both of you.

As soon as the next young lady turns his head he'll be off at it again but he'll hide it better until he leaves you, seemingly out of the blue, after being a dick for a few months first.

Read www.chumplady.com

What the others say.

You can't forgive because he isn't sorry.

You don't know how far it went.

You can't trust he won't do it again.

I wonder if he would have forgiven you? Would he feel the same way about you?
Would he has stayed?
I think you need to think about this questions. I also think you are afraid for the future. Is he trust worthy?
I hope he is going to have a vasectomy after all he doesn't want more children.

If was at work would say there is an issue / risk - his behaviour and changes of similar future behaviour; and you have options on how to mitigate these!

The obvious ones are: (i) remain in the relationship - attend couples counselling; (ii) remain - no counselling; (iii) plan to end the relationship. These remain open to you at any time.

Also some things you can do whichever option you go for: counselling and self care for yourself; investigating finance, housing etc if you were to split up; taking decisions on your life and the DC with the risk of future negative behaviour or breakup instigated by him. Eg financial and work choices.

Building up your personal relationships with friends and family.

Because he's still minimizing and making bull shit excuses for his inexcusable behavior. Come on,he treated you and your daughter like dog shit on the bottom of his shoe and cheated on you with another woman. Find your anger and self esteem and dump him

Do you love him OP? Does he enhance your life?
An apology followed by "but" isn't an apology.

He put himself first "for once" but it wasn't once. It was repeatedly over the course of several months!

I love her but she doesn’t enhance my life at all

I didn't even see that bit, OP those words gave me the shivers.

Your children deserve better than an entitled egomaniac. Please think long and hard about this, because from what you've described there's more of this to come.

He absolutely reeks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Thanks for replying. It’s quite hard reading but I agree with so many of the points you are making.

@LemonTT, yes I remember you from my previous threads about it. Just to clarify though, when we agreed to try for a third baby, he was on board with it. I didn’t feel at that time that it was half-hearted. We had many many conversations about it. He said he was ‘up for it’, he said how nice it would be for our other kids to have baby sibling, and our friends got the impression he was ‘broody’ as he was always cuddling a friend’s baby and he would wink at me as if to say ‘this could be us soon’. He did also say ‘if it’s what you really want’, which I admit in hindsight I should have read more into, but at the time I thought he meant because we both knew I would be the main carer. I don’t want people thinking I’m the sort of person who would go ahead with having a baby regardless of what my DH wants. I’ve always felt very strongly that if only one person wants a baby, you don’t have one; you both have to want it and he knew that. Which is why his behaviour afterwards left me even more devastated. I felt so guilty that I’d given my beautiful daughter a father who could treat her like that.

But in the past few months he’s come back to us. He is every bit the doting Dad to her now. He absolutely adores her, she adores him and he’s always (the shit period aside) been a great Dad to our other kids. On a family level, we’re happy. He enjoy each other’s company, we have fun, we laugh a lot and the kids are so happy. But things have changed on the couple level between us...I have detached myself from him more. But we still get on well, we chat and laugh, but the emotional connection has changed. He wants us to get close and back to how we used to be but I don’t as he betrayed it.

But then I struggle to give up the family we have which is a happy one, and the ‘friendship’ side of our relationship which is still there despite everything, just because the deep emotional connection has been damaged. It’s hard to explain. But we rub along quite well on a day-to-day basis...I talk to my RL friends and it’s sad to say that their marriages seem to be in far worse shape in some ways but they just ‘make the best of it’. A lot of people are telling me to put myself first, but I’m not programmed that way. I put family/children first always. So does pretty much everyone else I know in RL with young children.

@Eminado

I am passing on my experience as someone who was also treated like this (except much, much worse and for far, far longer)

and who is now divorced.

My point is:

1. Divorce does not solve the pain
2. Divorce leaves you financially vulnerable

Its not the cure all.

So, having also being on THAT side of the fence and now sitting on THIS side of the fence?

I am saying, accept the hurt and disillusionment because you have got it anyway, and stay married. Yes, I really mean this. In the mean time, focus on you and your emotinal, physical, financial and support network growth in a way that strengthens you and reduces your emotional, financial and support network dependence on him.

@RhymingRabbit3, there is still love there but it’s different. I used to feel so fortunate that I’d married such a wonderful man with good morals and values. But he kind of shat all over that do things have changed. But I can’t say I don’t love him any more.

@Closetbeanmuncher, this has entered my mind too. I didn’t even know what a narcissist was until I joined MN but I do see traits of that in him.

OP
I have never thought that you put pressure on him to have a baby or that you could worked out what he meant by the comment. In hindsight and given the way he has behaved since, his heart was not in more baby years, except in so much that it gave you something. He wanted a change in his life and it wasn't a baby.

There are more than murmurings of regret and reluctance in how he has reacted to the change in family life. But he only half admits it and his behaviour is contrary. I don't even think it is about the baby. In any case she shouldn't be the focus of problems between the 2 of you.

In your position I would be torn between really wanting him to come right out and say what it is and wanting to just move on

Do you think he'd forgive you if you flounced off for 18 months, doing what you liked, having an emotional affair and leaving him with all the grunt work? And weren't really sorry about it afterwards and said some appalling things in the process?

@ScreamingLadySutch, I understand what you’re saying and I agree with much of it and I’m already doing a lot of your suggestions.

One of my most harrowing memories of that bloody awful time was the feeling of being stuck. I’d just had a baby, I do very part-time freelance work so not in any way financially independent, I sank into depression and withdrew from my friendship network, I withdrew from my family (my parents and siblings) and spent most of the first year of my baby’s life crying. Even now I look back on her first year and realise I have no real concrete memories of her babyhood like I do with the other two, I just spent all day on my own with her at home crying and that’s all I remember. I so wanted to leave but had no means to do so and I felt stuck in this misery. Once I felt stronger I made a promise to myself that I will never put myself in that position again so as of January I have a permanent job three days a week and a small business that I could expand if I need to. I have rekindled friendships and focusing on myself more.

He basically withdrew from family life, rejected our daughter, was vile to me and made me feel like a complete failure of a mother, started drinking too much and went to the pub instead of coming home, threw himself into work and all the networking, conference and social side, basically to avoid coming home, started a friendship with a much younger woman that he hid from me and lied about. He definitely crossed a line with her in my view in terms of texting her at weekends (nothing sexual), emailing her about about non-work stuff and signing off with kisses, inviting her to accompany him to networking events, giving her lifts to conferences and not ever mentioning it to me.

You've had couples counselling and you still feel shit about it? Tbh I don't blame you. I'm not sure I could get past this. I think I'd have to get rid of him

OP. I think you know that you had to strengthen your position (hence the new job and rekindling friendships) and I think you know why.

screaminglady
Not the kind of post, many would expect but it comes from the heart. Divorce or separating does not ease the pain. Whatever the decision there is a healing process that you must go through.

@ThefaerieQueene, I know it sounds like I’m preparing to leave him but the truth is I’m still undecided. But he has shown me in a quite brutal way that he’s not the rock I thought he was...he’s not as reliable as I thought or dependable. When the shit hits the fan no one is more important to him than himself. So I’ve just realised that I need to depend on me more than him which in our previous set up wasn’t the case.

"but the emotional connection has changed. He wants us to get close and back to how we used to be but I don’t as he betrayed it."

Unfortunately that is the price he paid for devaluing you and family and he has got to suck it up.

How do you discuss this? There is one book that is worth asking him to read. And that is 'how to help your spouse heal from an affair by Linda J MacDonald