Who pays?

[Mango101]

Grateful for some advice...

I've just starting dating again (M, 50s).

I joined Guardian Soulmates and met a woman for drinks (£34 paid by me, she left for the toilets when the waiter came) - we got on well. We're both keen to meet again - she suggested a restaurant (which happens to be fairly expensive (probably £120 for two), but very nice).

But I'm beginning to have dilemmas about what to do when the bill arrives !

I kind of feel we're both equal adults (although I earn more as a doctor, she's a social worker) and the grown up thing is to split the bill ('man pays' feels old-fashioned and a bit transactional). But I'm worried that any discussion along these lines (either before or after the meal) would feel very unromantic particularly if she has expectations that I'd pay.

What should I do ? - I don't really want to have to pay £150ish every time I go on a couple of dates, and at my age, it may take a lot of dates before I find someone who'll find me attractive !

@CalleighDoodle 😂😂

@ukgift2016 Many of the posters here have not been in the dating game for years. It is pretty common for men to pay on the first date, I think its 'tight' of you to be making this an issue and from her perspective, that is a red flag

You completely and conveniently miss the point ukgift2016. We (men) are rightly being educated on equality. Yet in instances like this you expect the man to pay. The man paying is the achronistic practice whereby the man demonstrates to the woman that he can provide for her!!!!!

A woman "expecting" me to pay would be a Red Flag of double standards to me.

Op, she's either a gold digger or classic double standard woman, either way run for the hills 》》》》》

If you like her I'd go, not say anything and see if she offers or is happy to split at the end. If she does all good. If she doesn't, then just don't see her again.

It is pretty common for men to pay on the first date, I think its 'tight' of you to be making this an issue and from her perspective, that is a red flag.

Nope. I have dated in the last few years. It absolutely not expected for the man to pay. Neither is it a red flag for a man to not want to continue to pay for everything for another person.

Especially where both are professionals, both should be expected to be painting their own finances for the foreseeable.

It is expected by men and women, who are looking for someone based on their ability to finance their life. Its not a good look in men or women.

I would say the red flag is the women, because she is trying to figure out how generous you are before deciding wetger she wants to get more serious. She is looking for someone with decent money who is prepared to spend it on her.

Maybe we women who have been out of the dating game for decades expect equality with men . And I hope when my children are dating they do too

The toilet thing first time could be a coincidence but for a second date choose somewhere less expensive and say shall we split or pay for what we had (assuming different amounts). That said I'm about to go on a second date and I (woman) have paid! My choice, but with other men they have demanded to pay, it depends. I have one keen chap (who I'm not interested in) wanting to treat me to the local Michelin star place, I would never go there so if (and I'm not) I were to say yes it would be on the proviso he pays

When she came back from the loo, did she say anything about the bill? Did she offer to give you something towards it?

She must be a well paid social worker to suggest a restaurant that expensive. Either that or she’s expecting you to pay.

I would say it not socially acceptable for a woman to expect a man to pay anymore. However, if you’re in your 50s maybe that’s still the expectation.

What did she say about you picking up the bill last time? Did she offer to reimburse you half the cost? If not then it would suggest she thinks it’s normal for the man to pay.

Suggest a cheaper restaurant and when she doesn’t reach for her purse when the bill comes you should say “shall we spilt this?”

My honest opinion is when the bill comes, offer to pay and see what she says. If she says oh no I’m not letting you pay then take it from there.
If she lets you pay then see who you feel about a 3rd date.
If you like her suggest something cheap such as a walk and a coffee or museum and coffee/ couple of drinks.
Then watch her reaction.

Normally it’s the men who pay that is if you’ve invited her etc However ,she’s the one who has suggested this expensive restaurant so I’d expect you guys to go Dutch

I am missing some info here OP
When she returned from the toilet what did she say?
I don’t think going to the toilet is bad, I do it sometimes then with DH it friends because there is a natural gap I guess but the bill is still there at my return.
If it wasn’t then I ask where it is and how much I owe.
If the person has paid already which hasn’t happened I think I would say oh no please allow me and if they refuse I would say thanks and make it clear next time I pay.

So... did she?

I would not pay if she goes to the bathroom next time and when bill comes or when she is back I would say ok, shall we split on both cards? Assuming that you will be splitting but asking cash or cards.
Because unless it is a birthday it can’t be expected that one person will pay in the early days.

If she earns less money then she should not suggest a restaurant that expensive.

I would like the man to pay on the first date (if everything is going really well, otherwise I would split it) but after that I would split all the other dates 50/50 or take it in turns to each pay in full. This is what DP and I do - we went to the cinema and out for lunch last weekend and I paid for it all, the previous weekend we got a takeaway and went out for breakfast and he paid for both.
It’s an awkward conversation to have so early on but if I were you I would message her asking if she’s ok to take it in turns to plan and pay for a date each week. She’ll either be absolutely fine with it and glad you brought it up, or she’ll be a bit off about it and start to get more and more distant (which is a good thing as means you’ll have dodged a bullet).

This would be a red flag for me and I wouldn’t have agreed to a second date.

I’d also expect a date to offer to contribute on the first meeting. If they don’t, then it shows from the start their entitlement re being paid for I think,

I'm recently back in the dating game (f, 37)
Went on a lovely first date about a month ago. When I went to the toilet my date asked for the bill and paid it before I got back. I appreciated this although would never have expected it. I thanked him and suggested that the next one was on me!! We have since been on another date and I insisted on paying (he offered to pay half but I declined)
I get the whole equality thing but also I guess I'm a bit of a traditionalist as I would have been disappointed if he hadn't offered to pay!! Equally I would hope he would have been disappointed if I hadn't offered the second time.
@Mango101 if your date didn't offer to pay next time then I would definitely suggest going somewhere cheaper and her reaction may well tell you everything.

I think it’s very rude to suggest such an expensive restaurant, surely most people just enjoy ‘casual dining’ or drinks at the ‘getting to know each other suggestion’.

Hmm I'd expect 50/50 and if she has suggested a pricey place I'd assume her standards are high. Is she 50's? Doubt it.. is she looking for a meal ticket .. most probably.

@user1480880826

I would say it not socially acceptable for a woman to expect a man to pay anymore. However, if you’re in your 50s maybe that’s still the expectation

Fuck off with your ageism . I'm 60 and would never expect a man to pay for me. And even back in the day when I was dating @ukgift2016 that would still have been the case.

What is it with women these days expecting men to pay for them? It's like feminism has never happened.

@DrMorbius has it quite right. How can we expect men to treat women equally if we, ourselves, demand the opposite?

How can we expect men to treat women equally if we, ourselves, demand the opposite

Exactly. I’d be ashy if my daughter thought a man was a walking cash point and she didn’t pay her own way through life.

Many claim t want equality but then expect a man to pay for everything in life.

Chill out @BIWI. You can’t pretend there is no difference in how this subject is viewed by different generations? Of course there will be women who have always insisted on paying for themselves but you have to admit it used to be the norm that men were expected to pay. Fortunately things have changed for the better.

It sounds like things have changed for the worse.

I think younger women forget we are the generation of Spare Rib, Germaine Greer, Greenham Common etc. Feminism has been around for a long time, we fought for equal pay, I can still remember different pay rates advertised for women and men.

Of course we don’t expect men to pay for us, and it is it is rude to suggest an expensive restaurant. If you are really keen on an expensive restaurant surely you’d say ‘X restaurant serves the most amazing sushi (or whatever) but it’s quite price so of course we’d share the bill’.

Chill out? Do you not understand how irritating such ageism can be?

And things definitely haven't changed for the better if you're expecting men to pay for women!

... if you'd said 'people in their 70s' then perhaps there would have been more sympathy for your views. But people who are now in their 50s were growing up in the 1970s, when the concept of equality was pretty well established as something women should be achieving and men should be acknowledging.

I'd try to suggest something else. From drinks to super flash meal seems with no offer on the bill would be a red flag for me

You completely and conveniently miss the point ukgift2016. We (men) are rightly being educated on equality. Yet in instances like this you expect the man to pay. The man paying is the achronistic practice whereby the man demonstrates to the woman that he can provide for her!!!!!
I agree.
Either she's out for a free meal, or she's potentially someone who has the double standards of wanting equality in some areas, whilst wanting to be financially provided for and have her dates paid for.

Of course we all treat our partners in relationships and who pays will change throughout, but early on the expectation to me should be two adult paying their own way.

You must not be that interested in her if you're already thinking about who pays.

If you are trying to court her and you like her, then you pay.

I pay half when I'm going out with friends. I'm not dating them so if I pay half on a date, it means I'm not interested and it will be the last date. If a guy hints at it, it'll be the last date. I don't put up with stingy disrespectful guys.