Infidelity

[Susancrushed]

It’s been a year and 8 months and I cannot get my husbands affair out of my head entirely. He does not think about it all and says it’s the biggest mistake of his life. I’m trying to contain my thoughts when they come up in my head. It seems after having a good day or evening date I bring it up. I am not angry just questioning his character. It’s been a long road and I don’t wish this on my worst enemy. Anyone can give me personal feedback

Also the OP did ask for stories of survival. They were told.

You're the one making sweeping generalisations which is never all that wise.

@McTits you clearly aren't very happy either because you're posting on the very same forum demanding that people except that a relationship must end when there has been infidelity. You haven't hit a nerve with me, I just think your point of view is very one sided based on your own experience only. We just have very different opinions on the subject. I personally think cheating with a married person does make you a shitty, untrustworthy person and I wouldn't continue a friendship with someone who conducted themselves in that way. I mean how you could you ever trust them? Just the fact that they're willing to be the OW makes them a sly, selfish liar. The fact that you yourself couldn't promise never to be the OW explains why you're so sympathetic to them. I KNOW I would never be the other woman. There's no point in continuing this conversation, we have fundamentally different views. You think relationships can never be repaired after infidelity. I think in some cases they can, depending on the circumstances. You think the OW is blameless, I think they as are accountable as the married spouse.

@doublebarrellednurse

Such a great post! You are spot on, informative and balanced. So many good points however I will pick up on the OW as I think this is key.

We as women on Mumsnet, there are thousands of us, if most of became less accepting and more blaming of the OW - as well as the married man - we do have the power to actually save some marriages from ever cheating. We really do!

But men who cheat are always doing to cheat I hear some posters cry!

WRONG

This is a fact. Less opportunity to cheat = less cheating.
Less acceptance of cheating = less cheating.

I’m an academic and this is true across the board with behaviour change. What was one of the most effective ways of stopping people smoking or getting to quit? Reducing opportunity = putting costs up, smoking areas. Every time costs were put up more people quit.

What significantly reduced deaths through paracetamol overdose? Reduced availability.

The less women prepared to be the OW = less married men who cheat = less pain and total devastation on the victims which are the kids and women.

How do we do this?
We openly express our moral objections to women being the OW on posts like these and in real life, our daughters, our friends, our colleagues. We make it less acceptable.

Doing this will save marriages.

@McTits .....oh and the reason I initially posted on this forum was to give hope to those that wanted to continue in their marriage. It's not all doom and gloom. But I still fully except that some people will never get over it and the only way for them to be happy is to end the relationship. The cheater is ultimately to blame for that. There is no black and white, no two stories are the same.

It's like there's no consequences to being the OW nowadays. People act like it shouldn't be frowned up on 🤷‍♀️

@Louise831
So what you are doing Louise is making a positive impact, by making it clear you wouldn’t be friends with an OW you are potentially saving a marriage somewhere.

Moral objections, can be powerful and actually do a lot of good.

Whereas @McTits whilst you might think you are being nicer, by not blaming OW, but you are contributing the acceptance of cheating and therefore making it more likely to happen.

@Warmfirechocolate I agree, but it's not just about saving marriages. I wouldn't want a friend that lacked empathy for other humans, it says a lot about someone's character.

@doublebarrellednurse
I’m not the one calling people names! I’m perfectly happy in my life thank you.
I hate to see women with such little self respect that they make excuses for being cheated on. I don’t want to see people make the same mistakes I made. Myself and others who have suggested this are the ones being attacked on here because some women know deep down that we are right but they are in denial. People are entitled to their own opinions and I have the right to express mine without being attacked. Relationships are based on trust between two people and once that trust has been broken it will never return or be the same again. The analogy of the broken vase is a good way of viewing this, you can glue it back together so that it looks fine from a distance but the reality is that there are permanent cracks. It will never be the same again. The cheating spouse has caused this, nobody else! No amount of people protesting otherwise changes this and anyone who claims things are better after infidelity is deluded. I’m not going to change my view on this, if people want to accept relationships where their partner is only there for convenience then I pity them. Life is too short and they deserve better.

@McTits you're the one attacking though. Saying women that want to repair their marriage have no self respect. You sound like the one who has a problem with women to be honest. You're limited in your thinking, believing only you can be right. Despite what the professionals and other women who have lived this reality say, only you can be right and everyone else is is wrong. Not every relationship was like yours. Not every husband was like yours. Not every betrayed woman felt the same as you.

@Louise831 yes that is true. It’s one of the devastating consequences I think - my father cheated on my mum and I think that his great character is now forever weakened by his decision to be so cruel really. He chose to be a more selfish person causing harm for his own benefit. Same with the OW.

I just see again and again posters saying
But the married man who is going to cheat will always cheat no matter what! And therefore excusing the OW as it isn’t them.

That is just factually incorrect. The OW being the opportunity often creates the opportunity. Without this is would not happen. And often without them specifically if would never have happened aa significant amount of affairs happen when the married person is presented with an ongoing opportunity - a woman openly saying I don’t care if you are married - and flirting and wanting attention and it grows. So despite the availability of dating websites most affairs do not start with a clear intent to cheat. You could say many are LED by opportunity and indeed inticement. Not by cheating intention.

Not my Exthough I’m afraid, he went looking and never told the women he was married so 100% I blame him and I even spoke won’t two of the women and didn’t blame them at all. In fact they were victims too they thought he was the one and had no idea he was married with a baby and a wife.

So we are aren’t stupid most of us who are cheated on. We know who is to blame. We know who is being harmful and selfish. And we make a decision that should be respected. Some of my friends disagreed with my decision to stay and told me why. But not by putting me down. Just by being open about their concerns. He was definitely invited to less social occasions afterwards! And I did eventually leave him as his remorse wore off. However I don’t regret trying as at the time it was best for me and the kids.

Aapologies grammar... phone...

@McTits I do see you blaming a woman for staying though and putting her down for doing this. You say it’s for convenience and lack of self respect. I think calling a whole family that has taken years to build a ‘convenience’ is demeaning, and it belittles what a family unit is.

You also assume that a woman is better off on her own to struggle as a single parent. That it is more punishing for a man to be kicked out.

That is an assumption not born out in many cases. Why should the man be able to leave and escape his responsibilities? Why should he not have to face the consequences by being faced by the one he hurt and to actively rebuild and atone?

What could be more self respecting for a woman than to say, you stay here and clear up your mess, support me through this instead of having to face this on my own?

Atonement and rebuilding a marriage are very hard work - for the cheater you could argue that this is far worse than swanning off with no consequences.

@Warmfirechocolate I'm not sure she cares to be honest. She has more sympathy with the OW than she has for a betrayed family.

@Louise831
I’ve had enough of your derogatory comments now. You come across as an unpleasant, condescending and judgemental person. As someone who has experience this and has come out the other side, I know what I’m talking about. If you don’t think you’re worth more than staying with a cheat when you don’t even have young DC or financial concerns then I genuinely pity you. I’ve got better things to do with my time than listen to you drone on about how your relationship is the exception and it’s all the fault of the evil OW. I’m not going to respond to you anymore but I’m sure we’ll see you back on here again in a few years when your ‘D’H has fallen victim to another predatory OW. 🙄

@McTits funny that because I've been through this too and come out the other side but my opinion isn't as valid as yours is it? You're the one judging other women who have been betrayed......I'm able to see both sides, you're not. I'm only being unpleasant about the cheaters that cause this misery.

that they make excuses for being cheated on.

What excuses though?

I can't see anyone excusing what their husbands did.

I don't forgive my husband. It's not forgivable. I've also learnt that there is far more depth to both of us than one period of time in our relationship. I'm ok with not forgiving him for what he did and he knows that he has to be ok with it.

You can't possibly speak for every woman and every relationship in the world. You're just one person. Take a step back and think about whether that could ever be true. Your own experience will cloud your judgement and you never know what is happening behind closed doors.

As for name calling, you've referred to @Louise831 as desperate a number of times, is that not name calling? Or claiming everyone who can build something better after an infidelity is deluded is calling people names.

You can say you don't believe you can rebuild or it's not your experience but you can't say it's impossible just because your husband failed to step up.

You couldn't and it sounds like you rightly kicked his ass to the curb after two affairs. He mistreated you and apparently didn't change much after the first one to stop it happening again. Believe me I would be ending that relationship to.

I gave my husband 6 months to make a real change to his life.

Not just us but all his selfish and pathetic man child behaviour. I feel more frustrated at myself for what I put up with in the first few years of our relationship than I do staying with him after his affair. After his affair he grew up and I took off the rose tinted glasses and we started something different. It worked for us and we are happy. I wouldn't hesitate to shut the door in his face if he did it again, so much as an inappropriate text and he's gone. And he knows it.

I am sorry you went through this, I am everyone who does, but your experience doesn't trump everyone else's. Like I said it's a lot like grief. People handle it all so differently. How I grieve (rum, stories, sobbing to songs in the car, working myself into the ground) May be very different to others. I don't think they are wrong for this though.

Warmfirechocolate
I have been saying this for years!
So good to ‘hear’ someone else posting it too

McTits why are you twisting Louise831s words?

You sound very bitter

Why don't we all calm the feck down.. OW is most definitely not to blame these cock head thinking cheaters are! They risk their family life for a quick shag.. they deserve nothing.

There are plenty of women on here who have left comfortable lives because of cheating, did they all go on to have amazing new lives with non cheaters— nope, some did and others got another cheater, same grass, different park. Now I 100% accept if you have a serial shitbag , or someone who is an arse in life generally or a prostitute user or a prolific sexter to other women then I would be the first to say LTB, but in some cases it can Indeed be a one off caused by many factors, inexcusable and not forgiveable but something that makes you think twice about making your personal situation worse. Some will leave, others will park their bike and see how it goes. The fact is too with regards to self respect, many of us have plenty thanks, however women who choose to form relationships with guys they know are married or very’attached’ clearly have bugger all empathy for other women. Partners 100% at fault, OW, 100% at fault too for pissing on another woman, regardless of what shit they are fed . What is important is that people respect it’s very individual thing.

@Warmfirechocolate
The less women prepared to be the OW = less married men who cheat = less pain and total devastation on the victims which are the kids and women.

What a crock of shit ! So men won't cheat if the availability isn't there . They can't control themselves ?

@McTitsI do see you blaming a woman for staying though and putting her down for doing this. You say it’s for convenience and lack of self respect. I think calling a whole family that has taken years to build a ‘convenience’ is demeaning, and it belittles what a family unit is

^This.

@Louise831 I’ve had enough of your derogatory comments now. You come across as an unpleasant, condescending and judgemental person

No, she doesn't. However you do. Very much so.

There are plenty of women on here who have left comfortable lives because of cheating, did they all go on to have amazing new lives with non cheaters— nope, some did and others got another cheater, same grass, different park

^^This. I will never know for sure if dh will cheat again - exactly as I will never ever know for sure if the next one, if I ever even met a next one, would either. I stayed; my heart is scarred. But I don't regret it. I got 3 children out of it, my three little saviours. I am great, great friends with dh, bizarrely - I just have to bear in mind what he is capable of, accept it, be prepared financially if he does it again, but I'm glad I stayed. Leaving doesn't mean a guarantee of different happiness- it's a different kind if grass for me, is all. Some people go on to have wonderful lives after splitting. I might still have nightmares sometimes - but if I'd left, I would STILL always know a man is perfectly capable of cheating, if he wants. Im not explaining this well. But anyway.

OP wanted success stories - op, life isn't easy after infidelity. Some can make it work. Some can't. But it entirely depends on how the cheater behaves after. Does he let you grieve? Ask questions? Does he realise how long this may take you to start to heal? Is he prepared to be utterly open, all passwords, all devices? Are YOU prepared to live with never truly knowing? Of living with accepting humans things like this, even of supposedly truly happy?

What a crock of shit! So men won't cheat if the availability isn't there. They can't control themselves?

@TheStuffedPenguin well that was a reasoned argument against me... not!

No I did not say that men are walking weak cheaters who just can’t control themselves. You are overly simplistic. Cheating is a selfish, destructive behaviour. Our behaviour is HEAVILY influenced by culture and opportunity.

Less men will cheat if less women are prepared to be the OW.

That’s a fact and there is evidence to support it.

In the same way that more people quit or never smoke if there is less opportunity.

Some men would never cheat if there wasn’t an opportunity and for some this is just one opportunity from one woman.

It is an act dependent on two people agreeing to behave as cheaters - both are harming and putting their own interests of pleasure above the pain of a wife and family.

Personally I think it’s an abusive act by both. It causes so much emotional harm.

Also if less men were prepared to cheat less women would be able to have the opportunity to be the OW. So they would have less opportunity to harm.

However as mostly women on mumsnet we can start most actively reduce the opportunity to cheat by not being OW and by morally opposing OW. Our friends and daughters. We have quite a lot of power to change this slowly over time. Culture can change.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have less horrible devastation in the future?

Whether we’ve left or stayed. Most of us have experienced our men cheating on this thread. And we know how awful it is. Some of us, like me, when I had a small baby. This is life long trauma.

I make it known to all I know women and men that I could drop anyone who did this. I think that is a positive contribution to changing the culture so maybe, my kids won’t have this happen to them.

How about men stop thinking with their dicks and treat their wives / partners with the respect they deserve! I recall being young free and single .. the amount of attached men that hit on me at work or out in pubs / clubs was truly awful. I worked in a corporate company and the amount of men there that cheat on the poor wives at home pregnant or with little ones was shocking one man in particular made my skin crawl ( his wife see sense and left him)! I never once was tempted by these vile creatures and never would be. But the fact remains.. they do it often and destroy us women! We give up our careers, look after our kids and take a step back (most of the time - I did) and for what? To be treated like this? He'll fuck no!