Upset drifting apart from sister

[PookieDo]

I have a Dsis and we both have children, but they are very different ages (Mine are older) and we now live 40 odd miles apart from each other.

Before she had children we were very close. When I had DC she joined in a lot of our family outings and experiences. She was very close to my DC and we spent a lot of time together, we also socialised together on nights our or nights in, either just us or with friends.

Despite the age gap our DC all really love each other, have a lot of fun together and my DC are very helpful with the little ones. So there are NO issues there. We have both helped each other with childcare as well, but this is rare now - I don’t need it anymore and she doesn’t ask me very often, although I’ve never said no and have made it clear I can help.

Since she has had her own children a few years ago, I feel more and more distance between us. She never ever invites us to go on fun family day trips (where we would happily pay our own way and make our own way there). We also aren’t invited to any parties/gatherings and I end up seeing things on social media that I think ‘that would have been great fun to join in’ and I feel a bit sad about it. She never invites me to socialise ever now, and I haven’t spent any alone time with her now for about 2 or 3 years even though I have suggested it. She doesn’t call or text very much either, if I call her she never answers the phone.

We do see them once a month or once every 6 weeks, and this is usually a last minute plan - she will suddenly announce she is free, and come to visit where we all sit indoors at my house for a few hours

I understand she has small kids, is busy, and I also understand she clearly values family time without us joining in, which is fine. But I have no idea if I should tell her how I feel, or just say nothing and let it go?

I don’t know why it upsets me seeing the great fun times on SM ‘making memories’ that we are never included in, whether she doesn’t actually like me very much or has just forgotten us. I have a small family and I’m single, so I don’t know if I am being unreasonable in my expectations? Should I say something? I don’t want to cause a scene either if I am just being over sensitive

The way you blame your sister for the shift echoes my husbands siblings.

It’s definitely our fault that we aren’t close. Not that we refused to conform to how they feel we should interact. My husband and sister were close. They don’t speak now because she kept talking about their moms feelings, ignoring ours. She views herself as the dutiful daughter who has to take care of her mom and we are shirking our responsibility.

Try to see how you’re coming across. Seriously look at how your decisions have impacted the relationship.

Being so elusive I think makes it all worse

Not having set visits isnt being elusive it’s having a life outside of extended family. Good lord it sounds exhausting

The way I see the DM dynamic (without defending her, this is just my POV) - she doesn’t know when she will next see them again, and the gaps can be long (not always 6 weeks) and she worries she is missing out on them growing up. So when she sees them she seems to feel overwhelmed. Those 40 miles feel a lot longer when Dsis doesn’t respond or commit to anything you suggest.

@PookieDo this sounds like it’s an ever decreasing circle of behaviours getting entrenched. Your sister finds mother’s behaviour too much and each visit reinforces it, so she backs off to avoid it, so when she visits next your mum does the same and so on. That’s probably why she does things spontaneously - it’s less time for her or your mum to get worked up. Perhaps your mum’s behaviour is worse for her when it’s planned? I do think you seem to have an issue seeing it from your sister’s perspective. You write more about your mum’s feelings and maybe you don’t realise that you are more biased towards her point of view.

I’ve only written about DM in terms of being asked about the dynamic and given my opinion, I don’t have the same RS with DM than Dsis does, and she is like this with our DF too and I can totally see why as they can be annoying to manage. I manage them differently to her. I don’t always agree with her method of ignoring them because that ends up coming back on me! I sometimes wish she would be upfront with them because I think it would help to create a new dynamic

They are mainly just annoying. They don’t do anything horrible to us and I can see from Dsis POV with 2 small kids you don’t want another burden so I have tried to take some of the burden for her with regards DM. The DF thing is very different to DM and long winded. She’s gone NC and he’s trying to accept it now and also accepting I’m not in the middle.

I have no blame or resentment towards her for any of her choices or decisions, but I don’t want to be feeling sad anymore and wondering what is going on, whether she doesn’t even like me or this is just a difficult period of adjustment. I’m trying to be a good sister before I am trying to be a good daughter, I’ve always put my Dsis feelings above my parents feelings and I always will as I value her more than I probably value them, but I don’t want to have to choose a side in the way it feels some people are suggesting and I don’t think it will help.

I’m getting confused on this thread too. I can see some people kind of get where I am coming from that this is an internal thing you need to deal with and adapt when her DC have come along and we have drifted apart as we have got older and it’s probably not personal against me.

When I do talk to Dsis about DM we usually are agreeing about her annoyingness and I have no interest in trying to pacify DM. I’ve spoken to her time and time again about being overbearing and she has improved a little bit but then will slip back. DM has no other family at all and I think that’s why she’s clingy

i don’t always agree with her method of ignoring them because that ends up coming back on me! I sometimes wish she would be upfront with them because I think it would help to create a new dynamic

It only comes back on you, because you allow it to.

You have chosen to “take some of the burden”. That’s your choice. Your sister doesn’t owe you for that. Let your sister manage her own relationship with your parents. You’ve put yourself in the middle. You might have no interest in pacifying your mother, but that’s what you’re doing.

Stop discussing your mother with your sister and vice versa. Simply remove yourself from their relationship. There is no need to shield either of them. It’s likely making it worse

I see that, she has actually asked me to deal with them for her and I agreed. Or I have just dealt with them for her

It’s time to stop doing that

Get out of the middle

I think you're probably right and she's treating you and your mum equally out of guilt. I get the impression that you're more on your mum's side but would you be able to keep stuff from her if you met without your mum? Maybe she doesn't want to burden you with the guilt?

Is your sister more impulsive than you about outings? I'm a chronic planner but my ex would do things like wake up and decide he fancied a trip to the zoo or something,

The sudden visits are not unreasonable depending on previous behaviour from your mum. For example if she said that she liked to visit in 2 weekends would she have to field an increase in calls and messages? Would she be guilt tripped with can't wait messages?

Sounds like your ds really just wants to get on with her own life and family and go NC with your Dm., but guilt keeps the duty visits up.
It maybe your relationship with is suffering through association.
That's is 'how can she go Nc with dm when you are so involved with dm?

My mil has 4 adult children.
1 moved to the other end of the country to escape , she will phone is happy to visit a couple of times a year.
My sil finally went nc 2 years ago.
Me and dh are now lc after she gossiped to all and sundry about some family stuff personal to us. (Among other things - demanding , over bearing , manipulation and emotional back mail).
Bil just nods to her. He lives close.

If you dm is similar I don't blame your ds for pulling back.

Why is she NC with your Dad?

We have had numerous outings with SIL and PIL over the years. They come as a package but as theyve got older it's worn a bit thin and has become intensely irritating. PIL change the dynamic completely and we have cut contact back. It's too much like hard work. PIL would be devastated not to be included in every single thing but tbh they're just not up to it. It restricts what we talk about how we act what we can do. So we don't.

I would definitely stop CALLING her and switch to texting her. Many many people find calls incredibly irritating. Especially if she has small children.

I've seen the other side of this. Do you have many friends or much of a social life of your own or did you used to rely on your sister to meet most of your social/emotional needs (you've mentioned her being 'supportive several times, helping with childcare etc)? I dont mean to offend but she may have felt able to 'carry you' until she had her own children and now she's putting their needs first. Her family is a unit separate to the extended family unit and having young children is exhausting hence dropping by last minute when she's free. You need to stop relying on her to meet your social/emotional needs and focus on creating memories for your own family unit and spending your own time with your DM. Perhaps take up a hobby to make new friends and boost your self-esteem, self-reliance and independence?

Thanks for some of the really helpful advice

I will be honest some of it has not been advice at all but statements about me, assumptions and projection from people’s own situations, which is a shame. Some of it is just mean.

even though I have tried to cover lots of bases of questions, and I can go around in circles trying to defend myself and explain my family dynamic, but this won’t really be helpful to my situation

DSis has said she feels very guilty leaving me to deal with DM and she knows I do it to take the burden from her, which I’ve always done as my ‘older sister duty’ especially as she has small kids. In the process it seems that by doing it I have slipped into the package with DM in Dsis eyes. I also took the burden of Dsis pet she no longer wanted, and DM has also taken Dsis pets too over the years when they no longer fit into her lifestyle, to make her life easier. I now no longer fit, and I found it sad and a bit like an unwanted pet. The advice from people who have been through similar has helped me, I think I have Dsis on a pedestal actually and this isn’t helpful. Helping her and DM like I have has made me quite unhappy. They need to sort their own RS out and I’m going to step back from taking on everyone else’s issues

I am glad you feel you can step back.

I hope changing the dynamic means that you get to see more of DSIS in the long run.

@PookieDo - I've read the whole thread and also felt some of the frustration you feel about the assumptions and projections.

FWIW - I think you sound lovely and a great sister and a great daughter.

I've got a very close relationship with my sister. We've lived together with our daughters when we were both single, we've supported each other and been best friends all our lives.

But there are some things we just see fundamentally differently. We've both now had partners for several years and she still hugely prioritises'family time' for her, her partner and my DN to the exclusion of all else. For example, if we're planning a day out our first thought is to include them as we think it will be more fun, but she doesn't often do the same. I will often invite DN on a day out as DN and DD are more like sisters then cousins and adore each other. Dsis almost never thinks to return the invitation to DD as when they are doing something she wants it to be just the three of them. She's often surprised when I invite DN and wonders why we dont just want to be on our own. I reply that DD is much happier with DN there and its nice for her to experience things with another child and remind her that the kids see each other as family. They've grown up together. We do do some things as a 3 but I also see my DN as a huge part of my family too. I lived with her for half her life as my sis did with my DD.

Recently, I've had a bit of a tough time and felt a bit lonely and struggled with things but she's been very busy with her partner. It's fine, I know that's just how she is, but I also know it just would never have happened the other way round. She would never have felt lonely if I'd have known she was struggling.

We both have an older sister who we're also quite close to but in a very different way. Whereas we live close to our parents and see them often, she lives 30 minutes away from us and is much more separate from us and our parents. She has a wider social circle and we have to book her well in advance if we want to see her. She is incredibly busy and has a very distinct 'family circle' and 'social circle'. She's even criticised us in the past for telling our parents too much about our personal lives. She has and goes to lots parties. She was the first to stop inviting the cousins to birthday parties (she had boys though to be fair to her).

She has her family and we're not a central part of that.

I don't think any of us are wrong but despite the fact we're all close and get on, we're all so different in our attitudes to family.

Your sister sounds like a mix of both mine, but to be perfectly honest, she also sounds like she has taken advantage of you a little. A little like my middle sister does with me sometimes. The fact she is your sister and you love her doesn't mean you can't acknowledge her shortcomings and I actually think it sounds like she isnt being as good a sister as you have been.

In your position, I would leave her to it. She obviously sees family matters differently to you and its part of a more general outlook and lifestyle preference which you won't be able to change. It's become clearer now she has a family of her own, that that's how she sees it.

Just because you saw her as a central part of your family circle and she enjoyed that for many years, it doesn't automatically follow that she'll have the same outlook. I think throw in extra elements of her being better off and you being single compounds the differences. It's a shame, but I don't think it's about you and your DM, I think this is more about your sister and a choice she has made. I am willing you to find a fab circle of friends and start throwing your own parties and start seeing it all how she does.

Lots of what you say Don’t does feel familiar. Especially with us both seeing things differently and her wanting partner time, whereas I see our family as all of us together and she does not anymore. I probably was not expecting it to happen.

she and DBIL are named in my will to take care of my DC should I die (it is complicated with their own DF), and I was not a part of their DC’s Christenings which I was surprised by (but didn’t say anything). She wouldn’t choose me as a bridesmaid at her wedding, but I would choose her. She and DBIL wouldn’t invite me to any of their own birthday celebrations, (even big milestones) whereas I would have had included them. My DC came to see Dsis as almost a 2nd mother before she had DC, so the adjustment for them has also been something to tackle, although they are older now. The ‘friendship’ we had is now very superficial and I actually don’t think we would know anything personal about each other anymore.

Dsis did not actually like many of my friends to be honest, so it was often just the 2 of us and we didn’t include other people that often. Gradually she has made a lot more mum friends, whereas I am older/had kids younger and out of the ‘mummy circle’ at school. The friends I have are the friends she doesn’t like so I can’t overlap them and she doesn’t overlap me with hers. My friends don’t really include my children

Being single with 2 teenagers is a challenge, they still rely on me and I’m not in a position to meet anyone so I have probably prioritised family relationships more than I should have

This thread seemed to get quite complicated and I can't say that I have read every post but I can feel your sadness Pookie.

Your sister is definitely distancing herself from you and it is very different to how things used to be.

If I were you, as it is such an important issue, I would ask to meet up with her, just the two of you. Tell her it is important. I hope she turns up! And try to calmly discuss it all. You don't have to sound needy and pathetic! Surely it is perfectly reasonable to say that you used to be so close and now you aren't. Ask her how she sees things. Ask her lots. Listen. See if you can work something out.

It does seem odd that she used to really enjoy your company but things have obviously changed. Which may be something that can be improved. But even if it can't it would surely help you if you understood her feelings?

Just make sure it is just the two of you and that you have plenty of time to chat.

I really hope you can work something out together.

Your DS presumably also have in laws that want time with her nuclear family too? She may find their company easier and less complicated because their is no historic emotional "issues".

@PookieDo I wish you well as you try to disentangle from being in the middle. It could get bumpy, but remember, you are not a shield, and you deserve happiness

Ummmmm
Your last update didn't good.
Not invited ti mile stone birthdays
Not a bridesmaid
Or in involved with the christening .
Did you at least get invited to the wedding ?

It sounds like she's being quite shit. If you've done everything you say you have for her in recent years, I agree it's a surprise she doesn't consider you for those major milestones.

If she was genuinely trying to distance herself from your DM and you by default, why did she rely on you so much?

So, I wonder whether there is actually a deeper reason for all this other than she's just a bit spoilt, selfish and inconsiderate.

It's sad for your kids and pretty unfeeling of her that she's decided to discontinue the close relationship. This wod actually make me quite cross.

I honestly think it's time to stop the one-sided dynamic. This Christmas, do something else, suggest a change.

Op.i don't think you have done anything wrong here. Some people struggle with too many intimate relationships, they just don't have the ability to maintain them It is interesting that her real closeness with you fell off when she met her DH and had children. I think you parents and her relationship with them is a bit of a red herring here. Whilst it is clear that she is not close to your parents , it sounds like she isn't able to openly and honestly deal with any difficult emotions , instead she just withdraws Maybe something has happened to make it just a bit more difficult to be as close to you. It could just be as simple as she has a DH and children to fill her time and seeing you involves more work than she has energy for. Or maybe something minor has annoyed her but she won't say or maybe doesn't even know what it is. You can certainly talk to her about how you feel but it may not change her behaviour. I am sorry you are so sad about this , you sounds like a wonderful sister.

Why not ask your sister if she'd like to do something with you just the two of you?

Pookiedo I personally think it’s time for you to move on. I am going through similar so understand the pain maybe it’s an older sister thing. But it sounds to me like you deserve better and so do your dc. Watching you chase this relationship when it clearly isn’t important to your sister isn’t fair or healthy for your dc either. Enjoy your children and your life, if she contacts you act normal but don’t initiate anything anymore. Just because you have a relationship with your DM doesn’t mean she should cut you out of her life (unless you are constantly defending a DM for unforgivable behaviour). It seems she doesn’t value you at all just visits out of guilt. Maybe be unavailable next time she wants to visit because you have a life too and she doesn’t get to call the shots all the time.